Moving to a new bigger shop blank slate what would you do that im forgetting.
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  1. #1
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    Question Moving to a new bigger shop blank slate what would you do that im forgetting.

    Hey all, after 9 years in a 20x30 back yard shop, I bought a house with a nice 48x36 shop with 3 phase and a bathroom! I manufacture/sell my own parts in southern Washington

    Before I move the mills in:
    Epoxy the floor White. I think. unless you can give me a reason to go grey.

    Paint the walls and rafters white?

    Might go PEX airlines again as the stuff in my current shop has held up well.

    Finish the insulation and heat.

    RO water system with 55gal clean water storage and a mini jetmix coolant mixer that goes into a 15 gal mobile barrel that can fill top off machines.

    What else am I forgetting?


    I've got 2 brother Speedio S700's that I'm putting in the corner and over the next year I'm adding an employee or two, a DMG 5axis DMU75+PH150 pallet changer and a Okuma Mill/Turn Multus B250II
    This winter I'm adding a 12ft x 48ft lean to on the shop back wall for offices and parts inspection/assembly/shipping.

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    What does the shop have for a floor now? What is your reasoning for epoxying the floor?
    I will never understand the reason behind people wanting to "pretty up" the floor.
    When the odds are totally against it. Nothing looks worse than a tore up floor covering.
    I've been in so dang many shops where the floor looks like total dog-meat, simply because of whatever was "painted" on top,
    is tore all to hell, because it couldn't hold up to a real shop environment.
    Yea, it looks nice right after its done. When you are sharing pics on the net: "look at my bitchin new shop!"
    Don't take offense to that. Not directed at you (there were plenty before).
    But, seriously, what is wrong with nice smooth troweled concrete? I just don't get it............

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    100% as Wheelie has said - and are there expansion joints? You don't want machines spread across them.
    And clean concrete and no paint!
    Put an airline ringmain all around - 2" steel bore with plenty of tap-off points.
    Get a compressor big enough for your expansion plans and get the biggest reservoir you can (vertical saves you space).
    Don't forget your DNC cables allowing for points for where your new machines will be going.
    Heating....or aircon as it will get toasty with all those machines running...
    Good luck!

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    Put the air compressor outside the shop, but easy to access.

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    Just my $.02

    good call on the insulation and heating! a well controlled shop climate is very important and often overlooked. It definitely pays for itself many times over!

    For air lines, whatever you like to work with, works best, so it can easily be fixed, modified and tapped into.

    Forget the naysayers on the paint, we painted our floors years ago and maintain that paint (repaint worn areas as needed) Paint reflects light, makes cleaning easier and gets compliments! we went with gray because we don't make medical components, don't work for NASA and don't like to mop. The walls are white steel for light reflection and easy cleaning.

    A couple of things to ponder.

    Overhead lifting for heavy parts? Mobile lifting devices take up floor space and are just a pain to use.

    Lighting. Dark, cloudy days and late hours, even if you have a lot of windows make lighting invaluable. I've always been amazed at how many shops don't invest in mounted lights but purchase large amounts of portable lights to overcome the shadows.

    A shop is always too small! If ours was twice the size, it would be 1/4 as big as we could use!

    Carefully consider the employees. We have had a couple over the years and they rarely produce well enough in a small shop to overcome the cost and headaches they come with. From insurance, to safety equipment, extra taxes and paperwork. I've known many successful shop owners that hired help for a few years only to scale back and start making money again. But to each his own and every owner has a different situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by the_r1_kid View Post
    Hey all, after 9 years in a 20x30 back yard shop, I bought a house with a nice 48x36 shop with 3 phase and a bathroom! I manufacture/sell my own parts in southern Washington

    Before I move the mills in:
    Epoxy the floor White. I think. unless you can give me a reason to go grey.

    Paint the walls and rafters white?

    Might go PEX airlines again as the stuff in my current shop has held up well.

    Finish the insulation and heat.

    RO water system with 55gal clean water storage and a mini jetmix coolant mixer that goes into a 15 gal mobile barrel that can fill top off machines.

    What else am I forgetting?


    I've got 2 brother Speedio S700's that I'm putting in the corner and over the next year I'm adding an employee or two, a DMG 5axis DMU75+PH150 pallet changer and a Okuma Mill/Turn Multus B250II
    This winter I'm adding a 12ft x 48ft lean to on the shop back wall for offices and parts inspection/assembly/shipping.
    I would put a overhead crane system in, it's amazing how much time is wasted handling parts and materials. You only have time to sell. Also as you get older your back will thank you.
    I would put some kind of floor sealing down epoxy, paint, etc. It makes sweeping up so much easier. They also have flexible sealant for expansion joints that will keep oils and coolants from going down into the ground.
    Lights you can't have too much light, I have only been in 1 inspection room that had too much light but it was more the glare as it was low cealing.
    Good luck with your project and I wish you well.
    Mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    What does the shop have for a floor now? What is your reasoning for epoxying the floor?
    I will never understand the reason behind people wanting to "pretty up" the floor.
    When the odds are totally against it. Nothing looks worse than a tore up floor covering.
    I've been in so dang many shops where the floor looks like total dog-meat, simply because of whatever was "painted" on top,
    is tore all to hell, because it couldn't hold up to a real shop environment.
    Yea, it looks nice right after its done. When you are sharing pics on the net: "look at my bitchin new shop!"
    Don't take offense to that. Not directed at you (there were plenty before).
    But, seriously, what is wrong with nice smooth troweled concrete? I just don't get it............
    Proper applied epoxy wont come up but alot of the shitty floors lack the prep phase or use cheap paint on floor.


    Polished concrete also looks really nice.

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    Not an epoxy floor fan myself. At my former job we put a bunch of money into the stuff and it didn’t hold up to any kind of rough treatment. When I built my shop I had the floors ground and then I stained them. The stain sealed the concrete nicely. I have no regrets here. When coolant spills it’s really easy to clean up.

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    Properly prepared concrete with epoxy it does not come up.

    IT cleans much more easily and things do not soak in

    Bare concrete absorbs oil and never gets 'clean'

    Sure paint can wear off, but it still washes up better



    Flexible air system, easier to put in now


    If you can find a good deal on electrical buss duct, grab it.

    I have about a grand into all my buss duct[~150 ft] including boxes and it has saved me much more than that over the years


    How is the place insulated?

    Cold or hot shop sucks

    Easier to do now.



    Work flow

    My current shop is crappy as it is long and skinny and I could not locate the saws near the door, or they would have been next to my office.

    Layout the shop for now and future needs.

    I have always used 'paper dolls' but maybe software is the way to go now.

    A lot easier to flip some paper around a page than move a 10000 pound machine down the road

    IS the bathroom ADA?

    Not to get into pros cons or necessity, if you add employees, someone may require it. At the very least, look up the specs and save the space. I remember being shocked when my landlord built out my space and built this huge bathroom, I mean, we aren't having meetings in there! But rules is rules, so best to plan ahead.

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    Ref the epoxy....yes prep matters but MORE importantly is what's your water table and damp proofing like.
    At a previous place, it was built with extensions. There were multi V roofs which had internal gutters and drainpipes going into the floor.
    Before we moved in and about 4 months before i started there, they had dug the floor in places and put 3ft deep concrete pads in.
    Which cut through and sealed all internal pipes bar one...
    Lovely shiny epoxy non breathable (important that) floor and over 100k later for the floor (32kft in 1999) and we were in.
    1st heavy downpour and all hell broke loose. Water pissing in from the internal cutters and a sprinkler system was squirting 3+ft into the air from the manhole cover.
    Within not long....the floor started bubbling bad and then lifting in places - it was dangerous. 2+ inch rise and 3ft circles worse case.
    Most places just looked like half golf balls.

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    Painted floors suck. White metal walls and ceiling are wonderful.

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    Hey thanks for the reply's keep them coming please.

    Yep I forgot about lighting. Ill add that to the list.

    I'll will keep in mind straddling machines across expansion joints if I can avoid it.

    Floors look like brand new concrete they are 20 years old but no cracks stains or anything. Guy just parked his camper and boat in there. With such a fresh floor putting epoxy down and it sticking wont be an issue. My current shop has bare concrete and it stains so easily even with clear synergy 735 coolant. it just sucks it up. after 9 years it looks like crap. I want clean nice and presentable.

    Good point about the ADA thing. The bathroom has a shower in it that Ill never use. If I pull it out there will be plenty of room to accommodate. that's now on the list

    For the warning on adding employees. I'd tend to agree but I gotta get out of operating 60-80 hours a week. The good news is that I design/program to take all the skill out of my production work. Fixtures just drop in and locate to .0005, Tools and work offsets are standardized, and as few tolerances as possible on the parts. All I need is someone to swap parts and swap tools when they get dull. Then when the DMU with pallet changer comes it wont require people most of the time, so that's low skill, load and unload, at the start and end of the day.

    I had to learn the air compressor out of the shop the hard way. My current Scroll compressor and dryer put out so much heat that my shop does not really need a heater in the winter. I had to enclose it in the corner and add a powered vent fan to keep from dying during the summer. I'll for sure make a hut for it outside but lager enough for a screw compressor when the need arises.

    What do you do about the moisture the machines put in the air when you add AC? I have de misters but with a sealed up shop moisture still hangs in the air after a bit. I'll wait to see how it goes to add AC for the summer the shop is shaded and will be insulated well.

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    barbter makes a good point about water

    I have always painted my floors, but had no water issues

    My current floor is pretty worn after uhhh, 18 years, and there was one area I tried a different paint on that peeled up originally, but the majority is intact enough that it sweeps and washes well

    If you have the 'space' for an ADA bath, you need not worry about changing anything. An inspector coming through hearing 'Yes, this was existing but we made sure to leave it in case we needed ADA' is bound to be more accommodating than if you say 'we aint got no cripples workin here'

    My AC is pretty marginal, but outside of 4+ days in the 90s it will keep it in the mid high 70s and dry. The heat and moisture from the machines hurts, but again, it depends what you are doing. Very tight tolerance work and you will need to do some math to get enough btus.

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    i would prefer bare concrete and the fact that is soaks up stuff rather than me busting my ass on a slick wet floor. i've seen that movie a lot years past

    walls? in my shop i have metal roofing vertical up to 4'. saves trashing the wall/insulation (and looks better than a painted floor)

    +1 for the crane. looks like little room for a forklift

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    You might look at something like Thompsons Water Seal for concrete floors. Seems to stop crap from soaking in and is easier to sweep, and when the forklift wears through it repairs are much easier than epoxy.

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    Yep you all are right I'll need to rig up a rail/trolley winch crane thing over the DMG and Okuma and when they come early next year. No room for a forklift

    I got a month to plan it out then I gotta hit the ground running once I get the keys. Giving my self 3 weeks to move setup and get back up and running by my self.

    That's where I'm at layout wise. That's the main shop and over the next few months I'll build the lean to off the shop back wall for office/inspection/innovatory/shipping

    shop.jpg

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    Just thoughts...Do you have space behind the speedios to get the swarf out or the tanks if need be?
    Can you put them side by side (I had this in my shop) - and put the work bench against the DMG (if that is the rear of the DMG?)
    Gains you space for tooling and mtl etc for the speedio???

    Also, is there enough space behind the millturn to get the doors open for the electrics etc?
    You'll need 750mm (3ft min) and if the doors are bigger, i'd mod the hinges to make them lift offs.
    I can't stand lots of wasted space behind machines...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails capture.jpg   capture.jpg  

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    Quote Originally Posted by barbter View Post
    Just thoughts...Do you have space behind the speedios to get the swarf out or the tanks if need be?
    Can you put them side by side (I had this in my shop) - and put the work bench against the DMG (if that is the rear of the DMG?)
    Gains you space for tooling and mtl etc for the speedio???

    Also, is there enough space behind the millturn to get the doors open for the electrics etc?
    You'll need 750mm (3ft min) and if the doors are bigger, i'd mod the hinges to make them lift offs.
    I can't stand lots of wasted space behind machines...
    Yep I need to work out storage. each machine will have it's own custom workbench on wheels with its dedicated tooling and fixture storage.
    Like my speedio bench 20210905_160124.jpg

    Thats a good Idea on how to shrink the space envelope behind machines.

    I didn't mark that lay out well. The speedios face each other and the squares are the full space envelope needed including space to get to the swarf.
    The DMG and Okuma are just the machine foot print
    There is also another shop door that I wont be using much that will be directly behind the Mill turn. so I guess ill be able to back the mill/turn right up against it without issue really as long as the overhead door can still open.

    Little more accurate layout
    shop.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by the_r1_kid View Post
    over the next year I'm adding an employee or two, a DMG 5axis DMU75+PH150 pallet changer and a Okuma Mill/Turn Multus B250II
    I'd plan on pouring dedicated foundations for both those machines. Small price to pay to ensure highest level of volumetric accuracy.

    If you're on board with that, take that into consideration before spending money on cosmetically finishing the existing concrete.

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    Quote Originally Posted by the_r1_kid View Post
    RO water system with 55gal clean water storage
    Consider a 275 or 330 gallon IBC tote instead. Even a small drinking water RO system will fill that up in a single weekend.

    55 gallons is barely big enough for top-off when you have four machines, much less filling up a new DMU75.

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