My continued struggle to find decent shop help - Page 10
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  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by as9100d View Post
    Is that some kind of a joke only a dummy from California would get? Because I dont get it.
    I hear it's all the rage in your trailer park.

    I bet your trailer park is the best trailer park in the country. Over here a double wide is considered up market, I bet you have a quadrople wide.

    This is how you should sell ISO

    "I was a hick in Arkansas, living in a single wide trailer. Then I got ISO, now I'm a hick in a quadrople wide trailer, be like me"

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  3. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by triumph406 View Post
    You have more of everything than anybody else, am I the only one who notices that?

    I bet you have more pallets of scrap that anyone else, and your scrap is more impressive than any of my or anybody else's mundane scrap.

    I'm sure you could lick your toilet bowl it's so clean.

    I bet you pass OSHA inspections with flying colors.

    I bet you pass ISO inpsections with zero findings.

    I'm sure your shop dogs are intelligent enough to go to Harvard or Stanford.

    I bet when Peter North is unavailible, they have you on speed dial.

    I bet when ChristianXXX is unavailible, they have you on speed dial.

    If I was female I'd want your children.

    If I was a truck, I'd want to driven by you, rougher the better.

    If I was a Harley I'd want to ridden by you.

    I'm neither gay or bi, but if I had to be topped, it would be you, you sexy thing.

    Your so perfect.
    And the kicker

    Titan has you on speed dial.

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  5. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Wheelie,
    Deep breaths, advice will come in many forms which may or may not fit.
    You are getting wound up and defensive. Step back, good to you or not it is just some random advice and run your world as you see it.
    I do not know how to run your shop and no others can.
    Just do not get wound up in some sort of fight.
    Opinions and mileage will vary. Consider the why of the things you do not like. Disagree but consider.
    Opposing views are the best thing since sliced bread if we are willing to let them in without hurt.
    Bob
    Thanks Bob. You are absolutely correct.

    But, I did not ask for advice this time. I am not above asking for, and heeding good applicable advice!
    I have gleaned so very much from this site! It is the reason I keep posting.
    But this? This is more like a sober vegetarian telling me not to eat the hamburger and drink the beer. It is a waste of effort.
    Yet even when you tell them they are wasting their efforts? "I am going to devour this burger! And, prolly drink 8 of these beers! I don't care what you say!"
    They push harder. Stupid fucking vegans.

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  7. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    I am trying to hire a mechanically inclined KID with decent work ethics, fresh out of high-school, that does not want to work at a burger joint.
    I am sure there is a great candidate stuck flipping burgers within 10 miles of me right now who would take a pay cut to come work here. I just need to find him.
    For fuck's fucking sake!
    You can complain about "kids these days" all you want, but the fact of the matter is that you DO want/need to expand your shop, only by 1 employee, but that is still an expansion. It's also abundantly clear that your current hiring/employment practices, as sketchy and illegal as they are, aren't working for you. You have four basic options:

    1) Hope you get lucky and someone is willing to take a pay cut to come work for you. In the process, deal with the bottom-of-the-barrel employees you've been getting. Also, hope none of them realize they're about to be fired, report you to OSHA, and then claim the firing was retaliation.

    2) Learn to live with the bottom-of-the-barrel

    3) Change your practices

    4) Do without, keep doing it with your existing manpower. Work even more hours yourself. Based on what you're saying is the max you can pay to run these parts, the amount of money you're making on your extra hours won't be much.


    You're looking for an employee who is conscientious and can be trained quickly in a job that takes a small amount of skill. Anyone who meets that criteria, speaks English well, and is available to work 40 hours a week can probably do better than a slightly-skilled position, as they can get the training for a skilled trade. I'm not sure if Arizona does, but some states have apprenticeship-type programs with the local community college. They work for you, but spend part of the time during the school year being a part-time student. There is often state funding to help with this and a machining student might actually want to be an operator for a few years until they become skilled.

    Lastly, I'm not sure you can point to Joe turning down a raise as evidence that you pay enough if you then give him a raise in cash and not report it. Remember kids, tax avoidance is okay. Tax evasion, on the other hand, is illegal and you probably shouldn't brag about it on a public forum.

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  9. #185
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    What does one of these cost by the time it's ready to go? Is integration about the same as the robot? more? Vision, conveyors, etc. can't be cheap.

  10. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanielG View Post
    You can complain about "kids these days" all you want, but the fact of the matter is that you DO want/need to expand your shop, only by 1 employee, but that is still an expansion. It's also abundantly clear that your current hiring/employment practices, as sketchy and illegal as they are, aren't working for you. You have four basic options:

    1) Hope you get lucky and someone is willing to take a pay cut to come work for you. In the process, deal with the bottom-of-the-barrel employees you've been getting. Also, hope none of them realize they're about to be fired, report you to OSHA, and then claim the firing was retaliation.

    2) Learn to live with the bottom-of-the-barrel

    3) Change your practices

    4) Do without, keep doing it with your existing manpower. Work even more hours yourself. Based on what you're saying is the max you can pay to run these parts, the amount of money you're making on your extra hours won't be much.


    You're looking for an employee who is conscientious and can be trained quickly in a job that takes a small amount of skill. Anyone who meets that criteria, speaks English well, and is available to work 40 hours a week can probably do better than a slightly-skilled position, as they can get the training for a skilled trade. I'm not sure if Arizona does, but some states have apprenticeship-type programs with the local community college. They work for you, but spend part of the time during the school year being a part-time student. There is often state funding to help with this and a machining student might actually want to be an operator for a few years until they become skilled.

    Lastly, I'm not sure you can point to Joe turning down a raise as evidence that you pay enough if you then give him a raise in cash and not report it. Remember kids, tax avoidance is okay. Tax evasion, on the other hand, is illegal and you probably shouldn't brag about it on a public forum.
    Three things:
    1) Please tell me what I am doing illegally. Everybody gets a W2. Withholding is done by an outside company. I have workmans comp ins. This is as legit a job as any.
    Everybody has PPE (I don't enforce it as strict as I could). But, I provide it.

    2) What part of "stepping stone" do you not understand?

    3) How much did you make at your first job? What was said job? And, what was minimum wage at the time?

    Edit:
    4) I can gift Joe as much as I want. There is nothing illegal about that. Trust me, I asked my CPA. I give him all the chip money. Which I claim, and pay taxes on.

    Minimum wage in AZ is $12/hr. I am starting at $13.50. There is a $1.50 raise at 90 days straight to $15/hr (if they make it).
    They do their part? I will do mine. That is pretty damn good for an entry level position.

    You guys act like I am looking for skilled machinists with years of experience to work for minimum wage. Ya'll need to get real.

    And, ya'll that think I should do my part FIRST? to get people in the door? You may just be part of the problem!
    Society needs to be re-trained. You want it? EARN IT!

    Edit # 2:
    5) Osha not welcome here. You think I haven't researched this?

    If you are part of a small (again based on peak employment within the last year of 10 or fewer employees company-wide), non-farming operation AND your industry has a Days Away, Restricted, or Transferred (DART) Rate below the national average DART Rate of 2.0, then you are exempted from Programmed Safety-related inspections

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  12. #187
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    Is this robot loader above legal? I see an easy $20,000 dollar oops.

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  14. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Is this robot loader above legal? I see an easy $20,000 dollar oops.
    Sure is. It's considered the same as a "collaborative robot" theres load sensing and will shut the robot down in the event of a collision. Osha inspector approves.

    Osha inspector wouldnt approve of no bathroom though.

  15. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Is this robot loader above legal? I see an easy $20,000 dollar oops.
    No guards between the operator and a human for a start. sure that would be an OSHA violation.

  16. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanielG View Post
    What does one of these cost by the time it's ready to go? Is integration about the same as the robot? more? Vision, conveyors, etc. can't be cheap.
    That robot alone is $25,000. All you need is a gripper system which can get expensive. the crap the cobot company sells is so overpriced its not funny.

    I think for a nachi robot, all in with haas interface, mfin cable, paying an applications engineer to help when needed, grippers, building a table and other stuff... probably in the $40,000 range or less.

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  18. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by triumph406 View Post
    No guards between the operator and a human for a start. sure that would be an OSHA violation.
    Fool, collaborative robots dont need guards. The RMU monitors everything and the robot has limited power output motors and reduced operating speeds. If you think that is a fast robot...you should see it at full speed which would require guarding.

  19. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by as9100d View Post
    Sure is. It's considered the same as a "collaborative robot" theres load sensing and will shut the robot down in the event of a collision. Osha inspector approves.

    Osha inspector wouldnt approve of no bathroom though.
    How fast can it run in collaborative mode? I "thought" that cobots had to run at slower speeds without guarding?

    Thanks for the price, I was real curious. How much for the load sensors per axis or for all six?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidScott View Post
    How fast can it run in collaborative mode? I "thought" that cobots had to run at slower speeds without guarding?
    Youre absolutely correct. Also have to have the RMU addon. Not sure what the technical speed is but its for sure much slower. Like better bolt your robot down fast.

  21. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by as9100d View Post
    That robot alone is $25,000. All you need is a gripper system which can get expensive. the crap the cobot company sells is so overpriced its not funny.

    I think for a nachi robot, all in with haas interface, mfin cable, paying an applications engineer to help when needed, grippers, building a table and other stuff... probably in the $40,000 range or less.
    CAPEX approved, then.

    Yah beat "two year payback", look to actually be right about break-even vs a $20/hr human by end year one.

    "Fully burdened", both options.

    Ex:

    Human vacation time == robot downtime for periodic re-tooling/re-config
    Human health plan == robot component warranty & maintenance, contract or spot.

    Etc, etc, etc... through HVAC, share of floorspace, lighting, power, how much Management supervision costs..

    ...and even not NEEDING that indefensible non-existent loo!

    MANY US States or Counties would shut your ass hard down in a New York Minute and give back 9 cents change on the dime for that shortcoming.

    I mean, f**ks sake?

    Even rioters on city streets, visitors to a prettiest-hog contest at a County Fair in a cornfield, long-range aircrew, and astronauts on the space station have a place to s**t!

    More to c**ts, dicks, and assholes than psychological behaviour patterns. A plumbing function is still there, too!

    How damned hard can it be? Phone call to "Don's Johns" and yah have SOMETHING!

    Travel trailers or RV's put to work for construction site s**ter as well as offices come to mind? Don't have to be big, brand-new, nor fancy, do they?


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  23. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    Three things:
    1) Please tell me what I am doing illegally. Everybody gets a W2. Withholding is done by an outside company. I have workmans comp ins. This is as legit a job as any.
    Everybody has PPE (I don't enforce it as strict as I could). But, I provide it.
    I'm talking about paying your employees in cash to avoid taxes. I consider the OSHA thing to be minimal.

    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    2) What part of "stepping stone" do you not understand?
    I understood it perfectly. Hence my suggestion that you make your stepping stone more attractive by looking into a partially-state-funded apprenticeship program.


    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    3) How much did you make at your first job? What was said job? And, what was minimum wage at the time?
    Beats me, middle school was a long time ago. Mostly sorting files for shredding in a basement and fixing computers. No clue.


    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    Edit:
    4) I can gift Joe as much as I want. There is nothing illegal about that. Trust me, I asked my CPA. I give him all the chip money. Which I claim, and pay taxes on.
    I think you might need a better CPA.

    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    You guys act like I am looking for skilled machinists with years of experience to work for minimum wage. Ya'll need to get real.

    And, ya'll that think I should do my part FIRST? to get people in the door? You may just be part of the problem!
    Society needs to be re-trained. You want it? EARN IT!
    No, I get exactly what you're looking for. But you have to admit that you're not successfully finding what you're looking for.

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  25. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by as9100d View Post
    That robot alone is $25,000. All you need is a gripper system which can get expensive. the crap the cobot company sells is so overpriced its not funny.

    I think for a nachi robot, all in with haas interface, mfin cable, paying an applications engineer to help when needed, grippers, building a table and other stuff... probably in the $40,000 range or less.
    Who do you usually use for vision stuff to pick up off a conveyor? Cognex?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanielG View Post
    Who do you usually use for vision stuff to pick up off a conveyor? Cognex?
    We dont use vision but yes I would use cognex, mikrotron, integro, take your pick.

    Integro makes a system that can QC/measure before it pulls it out of the machine. I didnt see a need for it but it exists.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanielG View Post
    ... you're not successfully finding what you're looking for.
    Well. F**ks's sake. Like the man said. Get real!

    Yah get good at doing sumthin', yah wouldn't want to CHANGE anything and mess-up the dreadfully predictable outcomes, wuddja?

    Might end up justifying the cost of a comfortable place to s**t!

    Talk about a 'slippery slope? Everybody know that leads to tight shoes and loose pu...

    wait a minute... ???

    Three things happen when you get old..

    Now.. gimme a minute to find my glasses.. theres' a mem'ry crib sheet around here somewhere's . ..

  28. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidScott View Post
    How fast can it run in collaborative mode? I "thought" that cobots had to run at slower speeds without guarding?

    Thanks for the price, I was real curious. How much for the load sensors per axis or for all six?
    caught your edit, I cant remember how much the rmu system cost but it wasnt much $2500?

    It all worked out to be cheaper than universal bot or whatever its called. much more accurate also, its so accurate that with a vision system you can use it for part inspection.

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  30. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanielG View Post
    No, I get exactly what you're looking for. But you have to admit that you're not successfully finding what you're looking for.
    The whole point of this thread is that the odds of finding what I am looking for are much worse than they were 30 years ago when I was that age.

    Had I posted my craigslist add in the Girard Times 30 years ago with a starting wage 10% higher than minimum wage and another 10% raise @ 90 days?
    I would have had to beat smart, hard working, mechanically inclined 19yr/old kids off my door-step.

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