My continued struggle to find decent shop help - Page 11
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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    The whole point of this thread is that the odds of finding what I am looking for are much worse than they were 30 years ago when I was that age.

    Had I posted my craigslist add in the Girard Times 30 years ago with a starting wage 10% higher than minimum wage and another 10% raise @ 90 days?
    I would have had to beat smart, hard working, mechanically inclined 19yr/old kids off my door-step.
    Now, then, future, or never - you are either "in command" or you are not "in command".

    A commander, buck naked, barefoot, empty-handed, alone, and starving, or in four-star Admiral uniform of an entire world's ocean's combined battle fleets, may employ any resource (s)he can commandeer, co-op, lease, rent, buy, borrow, or create from a pool or experts or from hard vacuum, and from anywhere in the known universe. Or beyond it.

    Except one.

    Excuses!

    Politicians, whiners, looters, and liars have the patent on that resource, and a perpetual back-order on the supply.

    Learn to do without. Solve problems. Do not raise them as familiar pets.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    Edit # 2:
    5) Osha not welcome here. You think I haven't researched this?

    If you are part of a small (again based on peak employment within the last year of 10 or fewer employees company-wide), non-farming operation AND your industry has a Days Away, Restricted, or Transferred (DART) Rate below the national average DART Rate of 2.0, then you are exempted from Programmed Safety-related inspections
    Just saw your edit. You may have researched it, but you didn't come up with the right answer. You are only exempted from programmed (i.e. random) inspections. You are not exempt from unprogrammed inspections, such as you would have if an employee filed a complaint with OSHA.

    The So-Called "Rule of 10": A Myth about OSHA's Lack of Jurisdiction Over Small Employers | Workforce Bulletin

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanielG View Post
    Just saw your edit. You may have researched it, but you didn't come up with the right answer. You are only exempted from programmed (i.e. random) inspections. You are not exempt from unprogrammed inspections, such as you would have if an employee filed a complaint with OSHA.

    The So-Called "Rule of 10": A Myth about OSHA's Lack of Jurisdiction Over Small Employers | Workforce Bulletin
    better label those bottle, stop using double extension cords, wear safety glasses, and install a bathroom lol

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    I have said this before, but it always works for me- Hire a kid who is actually paying money and taking the time to learn- hire a student from a community college program. I have been doing this since the late 80s, probably hired over 40 kids this way in that time.
    There is a community college in Mesa, thats not that far, that has both welding and manufacturing programs.
    Call (not email) up the instructors you can find their names and phone numbers online.
    Tell them what you need- they always have a pool of 30 or 40 motivated people who are working really hard already to learn and make their lives better.
    the average instructor in one of these programs has seen hundreds of kids. They have highly attuned bullshit detectors.
    I use a couple different trades schools in my area, and they have never sent me a dud.
    Make it clear you are not hiring a machinist or a welder, but an industrial laborer who will learn real world metalworking stuff- and, depending on the employee, they may move on to higher paying work, but they tend to be good workers while you got em. Sometimes I get half time workers who are still in school.
    Sometimes I get em right after graduation, and work em for 3 to 6 months, and lose em to one of those 20 dollar an hour plus jobs- but its always been better than newspaper ads, or craigslist.
    Using the newspaper, I once got the guy who went to prison for shooting the very first police dog in Ventura County- he lasted a couple of months with me, doing grunt work. Or, the amazing welder, who didnt mention his need to smoke some kind of speed in the bathroom every few hours- he lasted two days, and I changed the locks just in case.

    Whereas I have had CC students last five years. Or a very productive 3 months. And, they all have friends, who also are working jobs to pay for going to school...

  7. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    I disagree Dennis. Better money does not guarantee better candidates. You are still going to have to sift through losers.
    And, this job only supports a certain wage anyways. Top dollar as a parts swapper in my shop is going to be $18~20.
    How many people do you think I am going to get to even consider working here if I tell them:
    "The job starts and ends @ $18/hr. You will never get a raise, ever" Yea, none.

    Guys......I am NOT hiring machinists here. I am hiring industrial laborers. They need qualities, not skills.
    Qualities do not net anybody top wage until they prove said qualities.

    That would be like me applying for a sales position on line and saying "I am a people person, I will be great at sales".
    When the exact opposite is the reality. But, somebody wasted good money on me to figure this out. STUPID
    I get what you are doing really. There are things people do to make things better for the employees who fit your needs like porta potty or maybe burgers one day out of the week then perhaps knocking off early on a Friday if work has gone good that week.

    Truth is all of these kinds of things cost something. It can be likened to a family there is subsistence living then there is living well.

    It used to be that employers gave loans for tools, made a effort even for them to become much better at using their various inserted tooling to maximize the life of them. What happened was the employee became a good machinist and left for more money a lot of them under heavy pressure from home to do so.

    It is not your mission to save the world too it is not the mission of these guys to act right or get their life together. They would find that challenge someplace in their personal life or from their God perhaps. Along the way they have a job with you and can learn a little slowly and survive and eat.

    Once I got a job with a good fellow who questioned me closely about reliable transportation in the interview. He told me the biggest problem he had is people had no good transportation.

    I suggest you look for anyone convicted of a misdemeanor that way they will be used to making less. It is like having a disability those get paid less at goodwill and like the env§ronment there. Maybe think about that those may feel it is the best job they have ever had and most often disability or older retirees might enjoy the environment. First I suggest a good break room with a refrigerator with sodas and bottled water after buying shade and a porta potty.

    If that does not work consider your location as you yourself might have limited yourself from being able to do everything on a much higher level. People change locations of themselves working for someone or for their own shop frequently.

    Greener pastures, happy hunting grounds, - it makes a huge difference. It will allow you to grow and also your help to grow. Without profits that are acceptable what is the point?

    Just saying. I have no problem with your methods and you are honest , upfront, and certain about what you have to do and it shows you worry about that guy who you had to send down the road because you obviously care. In my book that is pretty good whieelie. Not as good as a port a potty though no chicks will work without that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by as9100d View Post
    better label those bottle, stop using double extension cords, wear safety glasses, and install a bathroom lol
    Extract:

    ====

    If you don't have a pot to pee in, your employer is in violation of federal and/or state rules and can face inspections and fines. The company must have an adequate number of bathrooms , separate facilities for men and women (if there are over 15 employees), hot and cold running water, and soap.

    ====

    This is SO OLD it is all TF OVER Wiki, OSHA, and ... ta da ... ARIZONA State Gov publications:

    Restroom Break Laws | OSHA Education Center

    https://www.asu.edu/hr/documents/color1.pdf

    ANYONE can file a complaint! Even someone out in internet-land!

    Wheelie? Life and commerce within it has similarities to a simple, very basic poker game.

    "Jacks or better to open"

    Where TF are your cards?


    Get thee thy shit together. In a proper loo, please?

    "Solo, even!".

    Leave the Wesson-oil-party group activities for the Kalifornios. It's an important part of their political education.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Extract:

    ====

    If you don't have a pot to pee in, your employer is in violation of federal and/or state rules and can face inspections and fines. The company must have an adequate number of bathrooms , separate facilities for men and women (if there are over 15 employees), hot and cold running water, and soap.

    ====

    This is SO OLD it is all TF OVER Wiki, OSHA, and ... ta da ... ARIZONA State Gov publications:

    Restroom Break Laws | OSHA Education Center

    https://www.asu.edu/hr/documents/color1.pdf

    ANYONE can file a complaint! Even someone out in internet-land!

    Wheelie? Life and commerce within it has similarities to a simple, very basic poker game.

    "Jacks or better to open"

    Where TF are your cards?


    Get thee thy shit together. In a proper loo, please?




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    Quote Originally Posted by ChipSplitter View Post
    SOMEBODY is giving ortlt some competition for the "Most Conceited Machinist" prize.

    Just sayin'............
    Doesn't otrit call himself a "toolmaker", way above just a lowly machinist...

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    Quote Originally Posted by upm2019 View Post
    So with. ISO and all the other certifications your people still make scrap so what you just document it??

    The value of ISO certs isn't in operations, its in sales and marketing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Well. Fucks's sake. Like the man said. Get real!

    Yah get good at doing sumthin', yah wouldn't want to CHANGE anything and mess-up the dreadfully predictable outcomes, wuddja?

    Might end up justifying the cost of a comfortable place to s**t!

    Talk about a 'slippery slope? Everybody know that leads to tight shoes and loose pu...

    wait a minute... ???

    Three things happen when you get old.. Now.. gimme a minute to find my glasses.. theres' a mem'ry crib sheet around here somewhere's . ..
    Thermite, I'm working on a crapper man. really, I am.
    But, there are no less than 6 of them 1/4 mile from here. (Chevron, Shell, Jack/Box, Venesia's, QT, Los Fav's) I suggest QT. Always nice & clean.
    I have worked in buildings where you couldn't walk to the crapper as fast as a guy can jump in his car and run to the corner here.
    Matter of fact, we have a member (he doesn't post much) South Morgan Tech, that is in an industrial "incubator" @ 227 Hathaway, Girard, PA 16417
    This is a big building with many different shops in it. I worked in this building in the late 80's. There was one common bathroom right in the middle.
    Where I worked, it was at least a 5 minute walk to the bathroom. I don't know if it is still this way? That was a long time ago.
    But, my point is, there is a crapper less than 3 minutes away from here. And, there are worse bathroom situations than mine.
    I actually had the contract to plow snow at this complex for many years in the 90's. But, that is a different story.
    You want to talk about bathroom issues, go drive truck for a while...........

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob F. View Post
    Doesn't otrit call himself a "toolmaker", way better than just a lowly machinist...
    wasn't his dad the tool maker?

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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    Thermite, I'm working on a crapper man. really, I am.
    But, there are no less than 6 of them 1/4 mile from here. (Chevron, Shell, Jack/Box, Venesia's, QT, Los Fav's) I suggest QT. Always nice & clean.
    I have worked in buildings where you couldn't walk to the crapper as fast as a guy can jump in his car and run to the corner here.
    Matter of fact, we have a member (he doesn't post much) South Morgan Tech, that is in an industrial "incubator" @ 227 Hathaway, Girard, PA 16417
    This is a big building with many different shops in it. I worked in this building in the late 80's. There was one common bathroom right in the middle.
    Where I worked, it was at least a 5 minute walk to the bathroom. I don't know if it is still this way? That was a long time ago.
    But, my point is, There is a crapper less than 3 minutes away. And, there are worse bathroom situations than mine.
    I actually had the contract to plow snow at this complex for many years in the 90's. But, that is a different story.
    You want to talk about bathroom issues, go drive truck for a while...........
    There yah have it. "Other things are worse" makes it OK?

    Your primary product, as far as a long record "right here, on PM" has become rationalization.

    The habitually defensive flavour of an "excuse" substituted for ACTION!

    PM community doesn't want to HEAR that you are "working on" a crapper, year after year after year. That's f**king embarassing to a crowd that earn their CRUST by solving problems. All day, every day, day after day, year after year, life long. Not "just the one time".

    And surely not by getting addicted to a problem or the excuse over it as if a problem was a professional career - or even some kind of narcotic DRUG?

    SOLVING problems is the most commonly-held trait HERE, all walks of life, and probably even a Mortician or three!



    "Solved that issue" and move-on to some useful input about a CNC critter, tooling it, getting good surface finish, your good fortune in hiring GOOD people, rather.

    NOBODY HERE is so short of "bad news" or experience with failures that we have to order-it in for sustenance - as if it were pizza or fried-rice in a paper carton.

    Go forth. Do some some good.

    Come back and report success.

    "Whine" is in dreadful surplus all over the place and running for public orifice - and/or "arsonist-of-the-month", arredy.

    Not looking like a wise career choice, whining and blaming, and was never.

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  18. #213
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    Again, guys, I'm working on a bathroom. Addition off the back of the shop. Bathroom, office, utility room.
    Concrete is scheduled! Has been for almost a month (he was 2 months out).
    I can't do a porta-potty. Well, now that summer is winding down, I could start thinking about it for a temporary solution. Starting in Nov.
    Before that? I would ask nobody to shit in a plastic oven.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    I can't do a porta-potty. Well, now that summer is winding down, I could start thinking about it for a temporary solution. Starting in Nov.
    Before that? I would ask nobody to shit in a plastic oven.
    Cudda done one Day Zero. Anybody prefers to do it at a foodery whilst going for lunch or whilst buying gas or a candy bar still will do.

    You gets the OSHA (and common SENSE!) box tick and move-on to more important s**t.

    So do WE!

    Some 120 Volt window air con units are not even a hundred bucks as close-out or scratch & dent, this late in the season. Used one might even be free. Space heaters work. They don't have to be purdy, just get the job done.

    Get away from the damned KEYBOARD. Put yer can-do attitude in gear.
    Hearts, minds, hands and ass will follow and yah JFDI at a success. Or several.

    Make a choice. Wheelieking. Whineykling.

    PM doesn't YET even have a Forum dedicated to: "Saddest story of the day".

    Ever' body has all of those of our own we care to carry.

    NICER to drop in here and hope to see yet-another SUCCESS, ain't it?

    Become one.

    Then improve on it. It's what we DO, winning rather than whining!

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Cudda done one Day Zero. Anybody prefers to do it at a foodery whilst going for lunch or whilst buying gas or a candy bar still will do.

    You gets the OSHA (and common SENSE!) box tick and move-on to more important s**t.

    So do WE!

    Some 120 Volt window air con units are not even a hundred bucks as close-out or scratch & dent, this late in the season. Used one might even be free. Space heaters work. They don't have to be purdy, just get the job done.

    Get away from the damned KEYBOARD. Put yer can-do attitude in gear.
    Hearts, minds, hands and ass will follow and yah JFDI at a success. Or several.

    Make a choice. Wheelieking. Whineykling.

    PM doesn't YET even have a Forum dedicated to: "Saddest story of the day".

    Ever' body has all of those of our own we care to carry.

    NICER to drop in here and hope to see yet-another SUCCESS, ain't it?

    Become one.

    Then improve on it. It's what we DO, winning rather than whining!
    Thermite is my hero.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by as9100d View Post
    Thermite is my hero.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    Thermite don't know hardly ONE damned thing he didn't learn from BETTER men!
    PM's present and recent past company high on the latest list, thank you, all and many, but "not only".

    And more than just a few dozen wise wimmin' That wasn't as cheap, but WAS more fun!



    He's just nosier about human sharing of more good stuff and less bad stuff than average.

    Want's YOU lot to build that better world. And keep it in running order.

    No hero.

    Just old, tired, now.... and lazy?

    Ever and Always!

    Want sumthin' done fast? Task a "busy" man.

    Want sumthin' done right? Task a "lazy" man.

    Four toilets here. Periodic extended family thing.

    Connection for a fifth, corner of the shop, ever I get so old as to go all squirty-like, can't reliably make 20 feet.

    If yah don't have handy toilets, yah tend to get full of s**t, and go to moaning instead of pissing, yah?

    T'was ever thus..


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    Still hero

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Cudda done one Day Zero. Anybody prefers to do it at a foodery whilst going for lunch or whilst buying gas or a candy bar still will do.

    You gets the OSHA (and common SENSE!) box tick and move-on to more important s**t.

    So do WE!

    Some 120 Volt window air con units are not even a hundred bucks as close-out or scratch & dent, this late in the season. Used one might even be free. Space heaters work. They don't have to be purdy, just get the job done.

    Get away from the damned KEYBOARD. Put yer can-do attitude in gear.
    Hearts, minds, hands and ass will follow and yah JFDI at a success. Or several.

    Make a choice. Wheelieking. Whineykling.

    PM doesn't YET even have a Forum dedicated to: "Saddest story of the day".

    Ever' body has all of those of our own we care to carry.

    NICER to drop in here and hope to see yet-another SUCCESS, ain't it?

    Become one.

    Then improve on it. It's what we DO, winning rather than whining!
    I'm such a whiney loser.

    Funny how the art of reading betwixt the lines has disappeared almost as fast as honest good work ethics.
    Everybody older than 40 on this planet is bitching about the youngest working generations work ethics. I concur, and I'm a whiner.
    I had a few successes typed out, even posted it. But, deleted it right away for TMI's sake.
    If you can't read betwixt the lines, that's your problem not mine.
    I'll just say, I'm doing just fine. And, I didn't get where I'm at by fucking accident.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    I'll just say, I'm doing just fine. And, I didn't get where I'm at by fucking accident.
    Wheelieking, Dramaqueen... wotever.. "doing just fine" or not, it could surely be IMPROVED ON!

    You don't see how SILLY your little "problem" has become?

    Long-since gone world-famous - PM's multi-continent coverage as it is for:

    "the shop where shit does NOT happen!"

    Lining between the reeds rather than reading between the lines, izzat? Be careful what yah eat, take a "rain check" for the turkey-trots lest you be literally in "deep shit"?

    At least you "can't make this shit up!", "continued struggle"- wise

    Gotta sub it out..


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    FYI
    OSHA has a white hat program called "SHARPS" we belonged for 10 years or better, it is a good program and saved us some grief a couple of times.

    You invite them in, they cannot fine or report you for anything.

    You will meet with the inspector and go over all this when he shows up.

    The inspector does the slow walk through the shop making notes.

    You and the inspector go through his notes followed by a walk through the shop to discuss his findings.

    You and the inspector talk about the problems, cures, and the time it may take you to fix them.

    You fix them and email pics of the cure to the inspector.

    You get a nice plaque saying you comply.

    Next year you repeat the process, takes a half a day and is well worth the investment of your time, Highly recomended by me to any shop owner.

    When a pissed off employee turns you in they send everything they have in your file to them and a note explaining that there are no problems at your facility, cost free to you.

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