Thread: My continued struggle to find decent shop help

Originally Posted by wheelieking71

... a guy who ultimately went home early on his 4th day because his brother just died (8 months ago).

C'mon, wheelie ! Give a guy a break ! he's a little slow, ya know ?

I still think it would be worth searching out females and retirees for the type of work you do. And maybe, since wages there are not high, compensate for that with flexible schedules ? Maybe more people but part-time ?

I would not be interested in eight hour days feeding a machine, but four a day kind of to keep in the swing of things, would be okay. And there's students, big university in your area. Seems like you should have better luck than you are ... maybe looking in the wrong places ?

Can you do cash ?

Originally Posted by wheelieking71

Ohh boy, here we go again...........
Joe, came in with ZERO experience 2.5 years ago. Currently a decent set-up guy who couldn't be happier with his job.
You have to have good people to develop, train, and retain. It helps if they enjoy their work.
I can't take full credit for Joe's success here. He has been easy to train, because he really likes the work. And, he isn't afraid of work.
Am I poor at finding these people? I guess. But, it is like looking for a needle in a hay-stack (Joe found me).
The general consensus is the answer is money. I am sure it is a factor. But, how much?
I don't agree with this bye the way. Not because I am greedy. But, because, I don't feel just throwing a big starting wage out there will increase the quality of applicants.
Matter of fact, I kinda feel it might do the exact opposite.
And, a toilet. Well, no shit!

How about you pay the diamond in the rough you already HAVE what he is REALLY worth?

You might find that's the most effective recruiting you can find a way to do!

Same thing as managing rock stars or athletes.
They win big. You do "more than just OK".

Even if the money is waaay smaller than the super-star's cut, it beats all Hell out of making chips ... or serving them with greaseburgers!

How well do you do, if you lose this guy?

How good of a person might knock on your door he does really well on an improved package, and mentions it to another person like him?

One that HE knows and you do NOT know?

Some firms pay good staff for introducing more good staff, y'know.

Good folks won't risk THEIR reputation on f**kwits that cannot find their way to work three days in a row, either. And they are waaay more likely than you to know who they are, too!

My incumbent staf were not comfortable with an applicant?
Applicant wasn't made an offer.

Avoidance of that most-recent sad sack might have been just that easy.


2CW

Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein

Maybe more people but part-time ?

I would not be interested in eight hour days feeding a machine, but four a day kind of to keep in the swing of things, would be okay.

Two part timers might work real well! Scheduling would have to be just right. But, that could definitely be an option.
I'll have to edit that in to my add.

Originally Posted by thermite

How about you pay the diamond in the rough you already HAVE what he is REALLY worth?

In order for me to do that, I will have to give him paid health-ins.
I tried to set up for his 401K, to give him some more compensation that way. But, even me dumping money in there would boot him off his ins.
I will look in to it again, and see what the actual numbers are. But, I remember when I looked in to it for Tommy, it worked out to almost $10/hr.
Joe is over 50. I'm sure his rates will be higher.

If I keep growing? Ideally, I want to make Joe the boss.
I am kinda starting to think it wont be long, and I may have to move this show, or at least part of it, back out in to an industrial space.
This pisses momma off like you wouldn't believe (and I don't blame her) "this was your dream! The shop at home!". Nobody can predict the future.
If that happens, Joe will be in charge of it. And, I will probably hang back here doing the programming, small run stuff, and/or more technical stuff he can't quite handle yet.
I have no clue really what is coming for sure. Next year could be a repeat of 2019 for all I know. But, all signs currently point to at least 2 more years of balls out work like mad.
Enough material is on order to take us in to 2022 at current production rates.

Originally Posted by wheelieking71

Two part timers might work real well! Scheduling would have to be just right. But, that could definitely be an option.
I'll have to edit that in to my add.

You just gettin' on-board with this? EG's right.

And you are about fifty years LATE!

Consider this: VA labour law for ages required a not less than 20 minute break after six hours. But only if yah WORK six hours.

Picture a standard cadre, nominal 8-hour day.

- early PT might be housewife who has gotten the kids off to school, a seniour citizen retiree, a student. They roll-in after morning rush-hour traffic, cadre is already up and running, has the shift tasking laid-out for the PT. PT works 09:00 ish to 1:00'ish.

- late PT might roll-in noonish, work 12:00- 16;00, beat evening rush traffic departing.

The one-hour overlap helps cover cadre's lunchtime.

20-hour a week or less folk are in different admin category that 40 hour folks.

Scheduling, training, making what you do FIT, and training-up to keep it sweet?

Well. WTF WERE you and your 30 years of experience BEING paid for, anyway?
Making parts with yer own hands?

If so, who was running the bizness and doing the planning to assure it has a future? A.B. Dickasian maybe?

Clever people those Armenians. But abdication doesn't really work for free.

Originally Posted by DanielG

I'm talking about paying your employees in cash to avoid taxes. I consider the OSHA thing to be minimal.



I understood it perfectly. Hence my suggestion that you make your stepping stone more attractive by looking into a partially-state-funded apprenticeship program.




Beats me, middle school was a long time ago. Mostly sorting files for shredding in a basement and fixing computers. No clue.




I think you might need a better CPA.



No, I get exactly what you're looking for. But you have to admit that you're not successfully finding what you're looking for.

You really don't remember what your first job paid? OOkkkaaayyyy I beleive that as much as not remembering your first make out/sex partner, but hey whatever...


@Wheelie. gotta take the good with the bad (and there is a lot of bad here)

Best of luck figuring this out!

Originally Posted by Mike1974

You really don't remember what your first job paid?

LOL! Fair test!

88 cents an hour. E.A. Myers & Sons, Inc. Company long gone. Building still stands. Sort of a condo thing now.

Any lady deserves discretion, but I haven't forgotten ANY of em, not even the few I WISH I could!

Originally Posted by thermite

The POINT is you seem to be a rather GOOD Machinist.. but NOT so hot as a bizness decision-maker and "prioritizer"... nor developer, trainer, and retainer of good PEOPLE!

Your TEAM makes you a hero. Not the other way 'round.

"Leverage" thing. Best man in the world only has two hands, if-even ANY.

That "leverage" thing didn't come good for any of us on the first day at it, either!

Can't HURT they at least have a more harmless place to shit that is more useful to the bizness than down your proverbial throat.. as to constantly having to try to replace them!

It isn't and odd surprise that you had hired yerself a ball-bearing blivet.
It would be a surprise only if you had NOT.

Meanwile... labour environment of 30 years ago is history. I'm not all that fussed over what previlaed in your County 30 MINUTES ago.

What I want a "plan for" is whether;

- Democrats sweep both houses of Congress and the Executive.

- Democrats take both houses, but NOT the Executive.

- Ripofflicans hold Senate, hold WH, do NOT take back the Howce of Reprehensibles.

- A Ripofflican landslide / clean sweep is not even on my radar.

OTOH, it need not be. It's all to the upside for commerce, we should be that fortunate.

The other three options not only have an input to wages and skills availability.
They also determine if many of us will even HAVE a still-viable bizness.

Because our CUSTOMERS may not, even if we are tough as cut-nails.

You have a plan for that?

I do.

And I left the labour force August of 1994, middle of my 49th year.

Not "rich". Just no longer made sense to bust-hump for a paycheck that was going to go over 60 percent to one sort of tax or another.

Taxes are now right about at or under $5,000/year, all types combined.

Smaller gross. More of it "discretionary".

Exactly what I've been saying all along!

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by wheelieking71

C'mon now. "Lone unicorn"? You don't know me very well. I am as humble as the day is long.
I'll be the first to admit: I am not a great machinist. rather quite mediocre actually.
I have my strengths. I play to them well. I have many more weaknesses. And, never pretend to be something I am not.

But, in red ^^^^ how many times do I have to say in this thread I was not looking for advice. Go back and read the very first post.
I was simply sharing a story with peers about hiring a guy who ultimately went home early on his 4th day because his brother just died (8 months ago).
That is all this was. Shooting the shit. That was my only intention. Twas not I who immediately turned it in to something else.

And, if you think for one second I do not consider and or value all the good advice given here on PM, directed at me or otherwise, you are sadly mistaken.

“ But, in red ^^^^ how many times do I have to say in this thread I was not looking for advice. Go back and read the very first post.”

Ok point taken yet since PM is what it is and members will not sugar coat their input on a issue then why not from now on when this is your disposition then why not just say that up front?

I have read the replies and they are not vindictive over the top replies. Realize PM is for helping and knowledge learned. If a member does not wish to take it then that is fine. In fact the feedback from the members can be totally wrong.

I will say that you do seem to be very entrenched in your mindset and I think you should consider this attitude as a acknowledged engrained trait. I say this because from what I read you have not really been attacked much and the knowledge of the patient members to get you to open your mind are not vindictive. It boils down to this , on this site if someone does not wish to be mentored than they should not engage.

You are young yourself and I bet you were tough to mentor when younger you were new to the trade. It goes beyond just the sphere of business and specifically your business most of the time when I have seen this the attitude and mindset already has existed and going strong as a life theme. Ask yourself a honest question. Have you experienced similar feedback in your life as a whole meaning even in your personal life and even upbringing?

This track is based on the feedback which was helpful to you vs the way you overreacted to it. Like the wagon wheel tracks in a 100 year old wagon trail sometimes we can get in that rut. Be careful don’t get mad you can do whatever you want but to stand here and bash the feedback serves no purpose.

Originally Posted by wheelieking71

Haven't heard anything about darin in a while. But, last I did hear he left the state.
Just did a little google-fu, and wasn't able to find any recent info that I had not already seen.
Darin W Neagle. Remember that name! Stay away. Far away.

You mean this guy?

Originally Posted by wheelieking71

This thread has become a shit show at the hands of everyone's keyboard but mine.

We have to have pics of it now?

Originally Posted by as9100d

You forgot that I can crush you with my wallet also.

I know where Gordo is.

I think the inflated minimum wage in some areas make finding a fit for a job as described difficult. Just because some places have to pay $15 an hour for someone making french fries doesn't raise the value of a worker doing a comparable skilled job in a manufacturing environment in the same area. Back when I started out in machining most skilled trade apprentice programs paid about double minimum wage if you passed an aptitude test. Unskilled factory jobs that led nowhere paid 50% more than minimum.

Originally Posted by Dualkit

Back when I started out in machining most skilled trade apprentice programs paid about double minimum wage if you passed an aptitude test. Unskilled factory jobs that led nowhere paid 50% more than minimum.

... and nowadays, nobody is doing that. At least, not around here. I would love to find something entry-level machining in my area. I have experience, I've put myself through 2 different trade schools at my own expense and I have ~25 yrs experience in fabrication. It took till I was 50 yrs old to get $16/hr because I was non-union. You would think the streets would be paved with gold by now. I'm sure somebody's street is, but it sure ain't mine.

EDIT as far as I'm concerned, they're gonna pay me in the next life. And yes, I truly believe that.

Originally Posted by idacal

if they give a sob story while you are doing the interview, run away! few things more annoying than dealing with a drama queen. but at 500 a week he is cheap help. I have one guy right now that I hired as dumb help for a project, then the project got postponed until next year. so he has been organizing bolts for 2 weeks (aka make work) while i figure out what to do with him. dont want to lose him but if I dont get him on a paying project soon Im going the wrong way. but he quit a job to come work for me. so I owe him everything i can do to make it profitable for both of us.
I always wonder about mcdonald's managers i wish I had the people management skills most of them have. dealing with the very beginning of the work force. i was in one that I could see into the break room they litterly had a star chart like a kindergarten class with stars for, not late for work, cleaned up area, etc. can't imagine dealing with that every dy

IM/HO that is a big hurdle.
For years I have seen bigger businesses hire and lay off routinely.
I remember years ago when a kid in my class (we were just out of skewl) quit a job to go to werk for LaChoy, only to git laid off 1 or maybe 2 weeks later.
Then you will be on the marry-go-round for the next few years before you git high enough on the seniority chart to seldom git laid off anymore.

Last I knew - he was an X-Ray tech.
Guess he got tired of the marry-go-round?


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Originally Posted by pavt

... and nowadays, nobody is doing that. At least, not around here. I would love to find something entry-level machining in my area. I have experience, I've put myself through 2 different trade schools at my own expense and I have ~25 yrs experience in fabrication. It took till I was 50 yrs old to get $16/hr because I was non-union. You would think the streets would be paved with gold by now. I'm sure somebody's street is, but it sure ain't mine.

EDIT as far as I'm concerned, they're gonna pay me in the next life. And yes, I truly believe that.

What are your thoughts/experiences about driving across the peace bridge every day ?

Originally Posted by digger doug

What are your thoughts/experiences about driving across the peace bridge every day ?

Not gonna happen, since I don't have a passport or an enhanced drivers license. the US security is a PITA Also, the Peace Bridge is like 40 miles south of me (I'm actually in NF). I list my location as "Buffalo" because its the nearest large city but I hate driving there. I could commute, but then I would have to get pay that is not entry level. So it just doesn't make sense to commute at this point in time.

EDIT if it was a union job, yeah I'll go and get a passport and where do I sign up

Originally Posted by wheelieking71

Please forgive my ignorance, what is "ice"?

2 stokes!


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Originally Posted by wheelieking71

I disagree Dennis. Better money does not guarantee better candidates. You are still going to have to sift through losers.
And, this job only supports a certain wage anyways. Top dollar as a parts swapper in my shop is going to be $18~20.
How many people do you think I am going to get to even consider working here if I tell them:
"The job starts and ends @ $18/hr. You will never get a raise, ever" Yea, none.

Guys......I am NOT hiring machinists here. I am hiring industrial laborers. They need qualities, not skills.
Qualities do not net anybody top wage until they prove said qualities.

That would be like me applying for a sales position on line and saying "I am a people person, I will be great at sales".
When the exact opposite is the reality. But, somebody wasted good money on me to figure this out. STUPID

I am only 1 day and sumpthing like 10 pages behind at this point, but:

A) One thing that you keep saying in many of these threads is that the job has such a sharp pencil on it, yet at first you kept saying how you could pay for an HMC in just a few months from the proceeds. Yet again - puting WAY more "out there" than I personally would ever be comfortable with, but .... So how doo you go from paying for the machine overnight to "the job just doesn't have that much $ in it" so quickly?

B) I'm guessing that this has been addressed by now - but why on Earth is everyone saying that Mr. King doesn't have A/C?

C) I actually prefer pissing outside, but if you are in a small spot - I know how that spot can get after just a few days...
100 acre corn field is much better, but ....

D) Internal Combustion Engine. It can become addictive in some forms....


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Originally Posted by gustafson

Dude, you posted a problem, people are posting possible resolutions. One of the possibilities to consider is that your pay scale is inappropriate.

Maybe not.

If you are having trouble making money with a guy who runs five machines at a time, there is a significant possibility that there is something wrong with your process, business model, whatever.

5 machines should be making a total of at least 300 an hour[hopefully 500 +], meaning his weekly salary is paid in 2 hours. What is he doing the rest of the week?

And you are not hiring anybody useful right now, maybe you should be looking for machinists.

FedEx does not pay as well as UPS, but both jobs suck, and driving a package car in Arizona probably sucks out loud.

Fellow long term business owners are giving you opinions that conflict with your own

Do with them what you will

Originally Posted by wheelieking71

So, this is becoming quite the saga. Had to fire the latest one this morning.

Hire a 27yr/old kid two weeks ago. Preface of this dude:
Clean cut (other than the giant empty holes in his ear-lobes). Well spoken and polite. Single dad of 3yr/old. Ended up on hard times after a few bad decisions.
Told me all about his issues during interview (DUI, crazy EX, and a bad business partnership deal in another state left him broke/homeless).
Said he is staying with his mom, and just wants to put his life back together. This is perfect because it is only two miles of bike-trail to get to work.
Looks really interesting. 40 hours. And, he can only make $500/wk and retain state support for his 3yr/old.
I took really good mental notes, and did a quick google powered background check after he leaves. Whole story checks out. To the "Tee".
Found his Mom (who brought him to the interview). Daughter. Brothers. DUI info (dates were spot on). Crazy EX. Failed job in another state. Basically, it looks like he is on the level.
Seems like the kid could just use a break after the last couple years.
First day was Mon. Worked Mon, Tues, Wed, called in Thurs. with sick kid (102 fever).
I gave him Fri. off because I was out of material, and kind pissed about Thurs.
Reason: he had already told me he needed day-care Mon~Wed, but his Mom had Thurs/Fri covered (he could have come to work Thurs if he was telling the truth).
Second Mon. was holiday. I gave him the choice to work or not. He chose not because his day-care was closed.
Then calls in Tues. with sick day-care provider (food-poisoning). Forwards me text from day-care provider (because apparently he assumes I don't believe him).
Now, here is the kicker (this is a new one for me! LOL)
Shows up for work Wed. 2 hours before quitting time, he is crying (literally) and tells me his brother just killed himself in a motorcycle accident.
Volunteers a whole bunch of details (brothers name, age, exactly how it happened)
Not really knowing what to say (the only reason I kinda believe him is because he is crying) I offer him a ride home (he is on a bicycle, it is only two miles).
He declines because "Mom won't be home for an hour anyway". I tell him after that news, he is in no shape for work, send him home.
Back to google!
YEP! Sure enough, his brother died. In February!

This kid put on quite a show to go home two hours early! WTF?!

Anyways, I think there is a grain of truth to everything he says. But, I can't trust him. Bye-Bye

NEXT...................

You see - this is one of the problems with online message boards.
Mr. King posts a story, and somehow - we collectively ass_u_me that there is a question posed, and that he needs our help.

The only question that I seen posted was simply "WTF?".


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox