My continued struggle to find decent shop help - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Glad I retired, now Dakin wants to hire me for a 33% cut in my last
    legal reported income. ��

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    Due to data capped internet I cannot be watching videos, at what point does using a robot become feasible doing tedious work like 30 second cycle times on a chucker lathe doing second ops loading a 16C dead stop collet? How much time does setting up the robot arm or whatever it is take? Also how fast loading is it compared to a human? Loading time for me ranges 7-9 seconds on like jobs, including opening and shutting the door.
    It will run 24 7 it doesn’t have to be faster then a human but it stays on the job
    Don


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

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  4. #23
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    if they give a sob story while you are doing the interview, run away! few things more annoying than dealing with a drama queen. but at 500 a week he is cheap help. I have one guy right now that I hired as dumb help for a project, then the project got postponed until next year. so he has been organizing bolts for 2 weeks (aka make work) while i figure out what to do with him. dont want to lose him but if I dont get him on a paying project soon Im going the wrong way. but he quit a job to come work for me. so I owe him everything i can do to make it profitable for both of us.
    I always wonder about mcdonald's managers i wish I had the people management skills most of them have. dealing with the very beginning of the work force. i was in one that I could see into the break room they litterly had a star chart like a kindergarten class with stars for, not late for work, cleaned up area, etc. can't imagine dealing with that every dy

  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    sounds like you've been watching a lot of Simon Sinek.................
    Who?
    Had to look this up. Seems to be one of "motivational" Tony whatever type guys.
    Not my cup of tea. To much fluff with not enough real world.
    You can fix or help some unemployable people get back aboard.
    You do not do it by being nice and cuddly. Here is where you need to put on the hat that says "I am your boss and I am an ass, you will hate me".

    This actually one of my intros to new employees or team. "You may actually like working with me but I will guarantee there will come a day when you will go home cursing my name".
    Empathize and sympathize are miles apart for a boss.

    The experience here seems like more than the normal problem child.
    Out the door the only real option yet one hates to do it.
    Bob

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  7. #25
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    I am honestly starting to think (realize may be a better term) that a lot of my particular problem is demographic.
    I live in Gilbert, AZ. Not the nicest, or snobbiest place in the southwest. But, it is predominantly Mormon.
    I am sure Gilbert ranks pretty high in the list of "don't spank your kids" areas in the Southwest, if you get my drift.
    And, I see nothing but spoiled rotten brats everywhere (like way more than other places). I see way too many 16 year olds in brand new cars/trucks.
    I am willing to bet if I was say: back in Springfield, PA. Where 14 year old kids are bucking hay for Dirt-Bike money.
    Instead of Gilbert, AZ where kids are surfing on their electronic parent while Dad busts his ass to make an extra 5 figures so he can buy/give his kid a new bike every year and take him to the track every weekend. I might not have "as bad" of an issue. I know it isn't like it was when I was 14, even back in Springfield.
    But, I'm willing to bet it is still better there, than it is here. Actually, I know it is because, I have a lot of friends back there with 20sumthin yr/old kids. That I am friends with on FB.
    You can learn a lot about somebody just by finding their FB profile! (does that make me a stalker? LOL)

    My neighbor is raising his boy right! He just painted his first car (a '65 mustang) himself! at 13yrs/old (and it looks pretty dang good!)
    He mows lawns. Does small jobs around the hood with their skid-steer. Of course has chores/responsibilities at home.
    Has a go-kart, quad, two mini-bikes. When they break he has to fix them. Or at least try. If he can't figure it out Dad jumps in. But, not before he at least tries.
    If they need parts, dad buys them, and puts them on the shelf "in lay-away". Yep, Ken is raising his boy right. Of course he has Momma in charge of the in house stuff, and school work.
    I don't see as much of that obviously. But, I know it happens. The structure is there. The kid loves YouTube and Motortrend. But, that is on a schedule as well.
    Has a phone, but, doesn't carry it 24/7. It is a tool. Not a toy (until after all the important stuff is handled). And, probably the happiest kid you could ever meet. I wish he was a little older.

    But, this is an exception, not the norm, in Gilbert, AZ.

  8. #26
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    You don't want a MD's manager, They're special order.............

    I could probably drop my son off at your shop, and he could learn a thing or two.............

  9. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by idacal View Post
    if they give a sob story while you are doing the interview, run away!
    I get your sentiment. But, I have been at rock bottom. And, not all that long ago.
    15 years as a matter of fact. 15 years ago I was a homeless, crippled, alcoholic, with no job.
    All I had to my name was a 1972 Dodge truck, some tools, and clothes. My truck wasn't even registered because I did not have an address to register it at.
    A helping hand can turn somebodies life around (trust me!)

    This kid was worth a shot. I just hope he takes the lesson, and applies it to life.

  10. #28
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    It is not demographic.

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    Harsh as it sounds ,one parent families, kids under 12 are completely unsuited to any kind of permanent employment.....just wait until the day the kids have to come to work,and the office has to look after them.......obviously ,in Thermites day ,we would have sent them down the mines ,or gainfully employed them lint picking ....but not now .One parent families are permanent social security payment until the kids can look after themselves,legally.......In many states ,its actually illegal to leave kids to fend for themselves after school (latchkey children).

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  14. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    I get your sentiment. But, I have been at rock bottom. And, not all that long ago.
    15 years as a matter of fact. 15 years ago I was a homeless, crippled, alcoholic, with no job.
    All I had to my name was a 1972 Dodge truck, some tools, and clothes. My truck wasn't even registered because I did not have an address to register it at.
    A helping hand can turn somebodies life around (trust me!)

    This kid was worth a shot. I just hope he takes the lesson, and applies it to life.
    You are a caring person, that's not a bad thing. From my experience, 100% of the time I have tried to be someone's saving angel, I have been burned. Maybe I am getting old and cynical, but I (now, mostly...) believe that people who are in a bad situation are there because of their actions and attitude, and barring some life-changing epiphany, I can expect that same behavior to continue.

    I still think you should pay more and selectively get a superstar.. but barring that, why not poach someone who is already great but in a different field? Do you know the manager of some local retail store? Find out who the guy/girl is that has no specific skillset but who is reliable and dependable. Or swing by your local Subway or Dominos... even here in New England, those managers get around $18/hr which is peanuts, but it's not a job where you can be calling out and showing up late, nor is it a job where you don't need to frickin' WORK every hour that you're on the clock. Poaching someone who is already kicking ass and not getting paid (as well as you will pay) is a great way to skip over the chaff and go right for the wheat.

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  16. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    sounds like you've been watching a lot of Simon Sinek. It sells books but a lot of it just BS. Maybe if you're Consolidated Flange you can be a surrogate Dad to life's loosers, but us small business guys do not have the time. I agree though its a big a problem, the essentially unemployable, Big enough I wounder if I should keep going in manufacturing...its a very different in a professional services environment. There you get these keen bright young-ins that stay to 9:00 at night
    Attracting loyalty is very tricky. Sometimes it must grow through some storms.

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    I had a pretty similar problem.....when you get a decent standard of applicant,its more of him interviewing you,and you have to prove that you're not going to go under in the next 12 months,and its worth his while even continuing the interview.......Funny ,but the best worker I ever had was a tattoed bikie ,DUI every six months ,served jail for DUI while suspended,whole family were drunks ......yet Scottie used to work like a robot doing repetitive stuff ,doubt any robot would have worked so quick....I sold the business on the basis of Scottie staying,he was a legend ......He used to spend his annual holidays in the slammer working off penalty time .

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  20. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by SRT Mike View Post
    ...... Or swing by your local Subway or Dominos... ....
    I eat fast food all the time.
    If you go in often one can see who works and who does not. Anywhere I go I watch employees at work. Not just what they do but nuances about how they do it.
    Walmart, Arbys, Midas, Speedway, everywhere I am always looking and evaluating. I literary take notes and keep them.
    Who cares and hustles and who does not. Who likes to work and who just has a job.
    After some time of watching I'll hand out my card and ask if one may like to run machines.
    No experience, ground up rookies who have never seen a machine shop but has been golden.

    My wife finds it very strange that in every setting I am always evaluating the workstaff even out of town but I can't help myself.
    I'll say that guy or gal would make a good employee and she will say "Hon, we are 1200 miles from the shop, not gonna move and probably do not like snow".
    Bob

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  22. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by john.k View Post
    I had a pretty similar problem.....when you get a decent standard of applicant,its more of him interviewing you,and you have to prove that you're not going to go under in the next 12 months,and its worth his while even continuing the interview.......Funny ,but the best worker I ever had was a tattoed bikie ,DUI every six months ,served jail for DUI while suspended,whole family were drunks ......yet Scottie used to work like a robot doing repetitive stuff ,doubt any robot would have worked so quick....I sold the business on the basis of Scottie staying,he was a legend ......He used to spend his annual holidays in the slammer working off penalty time .
    I was Scottie for a very-VERY long time...............But, I wanted more. So I was in a constant state of learning.
    Somehow managed to avoid the DUI. Even though the odds were NOT in my favor!
    But, 90% of the time up until maybe the last 5~6 years before my own gig, 40hrs/wk+ I was Scottie.
    Still super fast efficient with my hands (crankin' vises, swapping parts). But, I paid my dues. I try to work with my brain now.

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    If Scottie didnt come in to work ,Id ring the detectives at Oxley Station,just up the road ,and find out if Scottie was a guest......and go up and bail him out....His old pink car had a score of around a dozen DUIs ,cops used to stop the car anytime they saw it ,there'd be Scottie ,his wife ,brother,father ,or friends DUI at the wheel.It was kind of a lifestyle with them ...we used to joke about it at work....Wasnt a crime or anything,just something that happened...Of course we used to down a few cooling ales after work too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SRT Mike View Post
    From my experience, 100% of the time I have tried to be someone's saving angel, I have been burned.
    Precisely why I nipped it in the bud right quick! I gave him a chance to help fix hisself. Not a chance to burn me.

    Quote Originally Posted by SRT Mike View Post
    I still think you should pay more and selectively get a superstar..
    And, I still think you are wrong.

    This kid was $13.50 to start. $15.00 at 90 days. Up from there.
    Show me an ENTRY LEVEL manufacturing position that pays $20/hr to start, will train (something legit). I'm not gonna hold my breath.
    Nor am i going to waste good money wading through the losers. Because trust me! You can not judge a book by the cover.
    How many times have you applied this technique anyways?

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  26. #37
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    I hired a 'down on his luck' guy recently. It was a mistake, but not too much of one. The red flags were there, but I need bodies.

    He worked fine when he was here, but was full of woeful stories...sick wife, 'evicted' from extended stay motel, no car, long bus ride, his lawyer said he would own that extended stay motel one day

    He just stopped showing up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    ...And, I still think you are wrong.
    ......This kid was $13.50 to start. $15.00 at 90 days. Up from there.
    If you need any plus side wheelie I think you right.
    Hiring into a very small machine shop. This different than a big shop.
    Rookie vs skilled hand and maybe a card.
    One does not even know what a thou or tenth is let alone this micrometer thing and the other hits the ground running and knows everything.
    Skilled hand makes twice the rookie as it should be.
    Still which the better choice? It takes 4-5 years to bring up a rookie to a machinist. Yet in that time they do much work that pays,

    I have only done this for 45 years.
    How do you bring in new help that has worked well or bad?
    Where to ad for help at this level? Craigpoop, streetsign, facepoop, billboard, Indeed or LinkedIn?
    Bob

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  29. #39
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    I have read a lot of books on hiring and keeping help.it seems like even the ex spurts say plan on getting rid of a percentage of your hires. thats the part I hate. but I have sat down and wrote out where I messed up on a hire, what red flags I ignored, what they said or did that triggered that flag.
    and try to make sure that I dont hire the same problem again. but it still happens then I have to try to get them to quit

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    We had slightly better luck when we quit hiring people that were not employed, and had been at the same place over a year. We also have had better luck with girls, they often have a better eye for detail and keep their mind in the task at hand rather than what kind of wheels they want on their truck.

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