My continued struggle to find decent shop help - Page 33
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  1. #641
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    First day of training.

    I said come to work dressed appropriately....

    img_3254r.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    I think he just thought if he told everyone all his work was in tenths he would look better? The reality is (and my terminology will probably be off) CPK values are meant to be used. If you have +/-.005 and you are hitting +/-.001 all day, open up your process. Maybe rough and finish with one tool and save a toolchange, or up the feeds and speeds, etc..

    I personally think most people that try and hit "perfect" for no reason aren't the awesome machinist they think they are.... Sure, if you are approaching a limit, but that's a bit different. Worked with one guy that would tweak parts all day to hit nominal, at the cost of significantly lowering your margins.
    Gotta disagree with this. If you're holding +/-.001" on a job with .010" tolerance, you're at the limit of a good PPK...

  3. #643
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbter View Post
    Here's a quick impression of the PM community right now...




    Definitely me right now. I hope he makes it a doozy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TeachMePlease View Post
    Gotta disagree with this. If you're holding +/-.001" on a job with .010" tolerance, you're at the limit of a good PPK...
    But a real toolmaker could do that all day long on a Bport, unlike us dumb button-pushers.......


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  7. #645
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChipSplitter View Post
    But a real toolmaker could do that all day long on a Bport, unlike us dumb button-pushers.......

    It might take all day long to do it on a Bport...

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  9. #646
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Man 1066 View Post
    It might take all day long to do it on a Bport...
    ...which is why you "don't have time to suffer fools who will amount to nothing"

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  11. #647
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    Quote Originally Posted by CosmosK View Post
    Time to build a machine to automate a process, Anyone want to help my first journey?

    Can't find the other one, something about show me the part you can't wait to be off your shop floor
    Here is a gem from that thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by as9100d View Post
    People said the same thing to Henry Ford and well we see how that turned out.

    That said, I know you don't know my capabilities or my shop but I'll say this. I have 30 Haas Mills and 10 robodrills along with a few lathes and 5 screw machines. Lots of automation already taking place with fanucmate 200id robots tending robodrills.
    All those robots and he never could tell me a load time. With that many machines there must be a huge underground bunker at his business address. I wonder if the house is on top of it or what looks like a shed is covering the entrance? I don't get the build me a machine thread , seemed pretty simple to me, but might cost more than $4K in materials. I do think it would need to be operated by a human unless you would spend a fortune.

  12. #648
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeachMePlease View Post
    Gotta disagree with this. If you're holding +/-.001" on a job with .010" tolerance, you're at the limit of a good PPK...
    Agree to disagree. My terminology might not be correct, but I would kick someones ass for trying (or more accurately, struggling) to hold .001" when it's .01"

    I realize these metrics are different based on large volume production vs small volume vs job shop. Should clarify I am talking (IMO) a more practical real world situation, like I mentioned with that guy tweaking parts all day and just FLAT OUT WASTING TIME. Now if you naturally get +/-.001" without going out of your way or adding valuable cycle time, sure no problem.

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  14. #649
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    Agree to disagree. My terminology might not be correct, but I would kick someones ass for trying (or more accurately, struggling) to hold .001" when it's .01"

    I realize these metrics are different based on large volume production vs small volume vs job shop. Should clarify I am talking (IMO) a more practical real world situation, like I mentioned with that guy tweaking parts all day and just FLAT OUT WASTING TIME. Now if you naturally get +/-.001" without going out of your way or adding valuable cycle time, sure no problem.
    Nah, your terminology was fine. You're right, holding .002 total when .010 is your total tolerance is a fine CPK. But for long term production, lights out, with low process variability, where a process failure means injuries, pain and suffering, or even death, high PPK is your goal.

    I'm not saying everyone needs to chase using only 20% of their total tolerance. But I do.

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  16. #650
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeachMePlease View Post
    Nah, your terminology was fine. You're right, holding .002 total when .010 is your total tolerance is a fine CPK. But for long term production, lights out, with low process variability, where a process failure means injuries, pain and suffering, or even death, high PPK is your goal.

    I'm not saying everyone needs to chase using only 20% of their total tolerance. But I do.
    ronb.jpg

    LoL. Of course there are different factors that determine if you need/want to hold much tighter than print tolerance.

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  18. #651
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbter View Post
    Here's a quick impression of the PM community right now...

    I feel more like this:










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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    OK Cincinnati, whatever
    That's acceptable

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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Man 1066 View Post
    It might take all day long to do it on a Bport...
    Which means you can charge a LOT more for it!
    Oh......hang on.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    ronb.jpg

    LoL. Of course there are different factors that determine if you need/want to hold much tighter than print tolerance.

    Well, I once attended a comedy show (Chris D'Elia if you've ever heard of him)... I had my mohawk up, and a quite attractive lady in my company, and was seated near the stage, so of course he picked on me a little.

    He asked me "Dude, what do you do with that hair?"

    I replied "I'm a machinist... I make tiny things that go in people's bodies"

    He laughed a little at the innuendo and said "Tiny things that go in peoples' bodies, huh?"

    I replied "Yeah, well, I AM Asian"...

    He cracked up and goes "Dude, shutup, you've got the best joke of my show so far"

    And he came and found us after the show and talked for a little bit. It was pretty cool.

  23. #655
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeachMePlease View Post
    Well, I once attended a comedy show (Chris D'Elia if you've ever heard of him)... I had my mohawk up, and a quite attractive lady in my company, and was seated near the stage, so of course he picked on me a little.

    He asked me "Dude, what do you do with that hair?"

    I replied "I'm a machinist... I make tiny things that go in people's bodies"

    He laughed a little at the innuendo and said "Tiny things that go in peoples' bodies, huh?"

    I replied "Yeah, well, I AM Asian"...

    He cracked up and goes "Dude, shutup, you've got the best joke of my show so far"

    And he came and found us after the show and talked for a little bit. It was pretty cool.
    Now that's an anecdote.

    (Bummed out he's getting "cancelled".)

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    Quote Originally Posted by TeachMePlease View Post
    Well, I once attended a comedy show (Chris D'Elia if you've ever heard of him)... I had my mohawk up, and a quite attractive lady in my company, and was seated near the stage, so of course he picked on me a little.

    He asked me "Dude, what do you do with that hair?"

    I replied "I'm a machinist... I make tiny things that go in people's bodies"

    He laughed a little at the innuendo and said "Tiny things that go in peoples' bodies, huh?"

    I replied "Yeah, well, I AM Asian"...

    He cracked up and goes "Dude, shutup, you've got the best joke of my show so far"

    And he came and found us after the show and talked for a little bit. It was pretty cool.
    What I want to know is how you drive with that hair. Do you have a convertible? Or do you slouch in the seat?

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  26. #657
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    000.jpg
    .............

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    What I want to know is how you drive with that hair. Do you have a convertible? Or do you slouch in the seat?

    It folds. I just nudge it over and when I get out of the car, it springs back into place.

    I have had it in the back of a pickup at 60+mph and it held up fine.

    I have had it folded up under a motorcycle helmet and had it spring back into place.

    When I was younger and single, it was a great conversation starter/party trick.

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  30. #659
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    .....
    How do you get those certifications when your shop space is at most a two car garage and a 10 x 10 tool shed at the address listed? Don't you need a closed off climate controlled inspection room?
    .
    Well since the thread off the deep end anyways....
    I think it is very much, much easier to get these certs if you a are a two car garage and very few machines/employees vs 10,000 foot and 10 to 60 employees.
    A climate controlled inspection room is certainly not necessary or required.

    If you want these papers to hang on the wall or get into customers start the process and applications while you are very small.
    Once you are bigger it is a mountain.

    Some love this cert stuff with all their heart and soul, others find it useful but sort of a pain, some do it because the customer says so, still others think it a total waste of time and energy and think it trash.
    Who is to say right or wrong fit for your or another's shop?
    Bob

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  32. #660
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Well since the thread off the deep end anyways....
    I think it is very much, much easier to get these certs if you a are a two car garage and very few machines/employees vs 10,000 foot and 10 to 60 employees.
    A climate controlled inspection room is certainly not necessary or required.

    If you want these papers to hang on the wall or get into customers start the process and applications while you are very small.
    Once you are bigger it is a mountain.

    Some love this cert stuff with all their heart and soul, others find it useful but sort of a pain, some do it because the customer says so, still others think it a total waste of time and energy and think it trash.
    Who is to say right or wrong fit for your or another's shop?
    Bob
    My last job working for the man 25 years ago the owner hired a consultant to get him ISO9000 certified. Helping along with that was one of my last duties. It appears he got the shops owner to go way over and above what was needed from what you claim. Maybe the guy had connections with the people that came in and upgraded the shop.
    All the added stuff to the inspection room and material storage took more space than a two car garage by itself.


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