My continued struggle to find decent shop help - Page 6
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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    I am okay with that! Why can you not understand this? Contrary to your belief, you are NOT the metric by which every shop owner aspires.
    Good for you. But, just don't even start that debate here.
    True...what I have achieved isn't for everyone no doubt about that. But I will say I have 2 of your problems solved....

    1) not having enough money to go around, thats solved for sure.
    2) ability to pay people what they are worth so you can have good reliable employees, that one is solved.
    3) This new shop im setting up doesnt have a bathroom either so we are on the same page with that one.

    No money to go around to pay people more? Well... The way I see it is you have 1 of 2 options

    1) do everything in your power and abilities to get paid more for your work (which ive said many times that I feel you deserve more) so that you can hire people at a wage thats worth a shit.

    2) stop coming here and bitching about a guy making under $20 an hour not working out and not being thankful for the opportunity when mcdonalds is paying $12+ an hour and per their policy its mandatory that they fuck up 4 out of every 5 orders.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChipSplitter View Post
    Oh for Pete's sake, it's not like your shop is Exhibit A for manufacturing. There are more certifications available than machines on your floor, I'll wager.

    If you're not careful you'll crowd otrlt off his high horse.......
    No its not...but ISO9001:2015 does open doors...anyone that disagrees with that doesnt know what they are talking about or likes complaining about not having enough work lol

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    For high-production machine operators, and I’ve said this before, but I’ve got one word for you: Mexicans.

    Now before some of you chime in about how they will steal from you, and show up high every day, believe it or not there is a large percentage of Mexicans here in the US that are here to work!

    They’re not here to smuggle drugs, or steal, or bang white women. They know if they break the law they will be deported FOR GOOD.

    You just need to find a couple of them that are here for work, and that have families back in Mexico they send most of their money back to.

    I’m telling ya, the honest Mexicans work like rented mules, are loyal, and appreciate a good job.

    ToolCat Greg

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    Quote Originally Posted by cnctoolcat View Post
    For high-production machine operators, and I’ve said this before, but I’ve got one word for you: Mexicans.

    Now before some of you chime in about how they will steal from you, and show up high every day, believe it or not there is a large percentage of Mexicans here in the US that are here to work!

    They’re not here to smuggle drugs, or steal, or bang white women. They know if they break the law they will be deported FOR GOOD.

    You just need to find a couple of them that are here for work, and that have families back in Mexico they send most of their money back to.

    I’m telling ya, the honest Mexicans work like rented mules, are loyal, and appreciate a good job.

    ToolCat Greg
    I can agree to this, cant hire illegal at my shop but the one with work visas are damn good hard workers.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by as9100d View Post
    Your anti ISO sentiment precludes you from work like what I just added to my shop, 72,000 AR15 upper receivers $2,304,000 contract. Lots of doors are closed without it. Just saying.
    lol... bragging about making forged uppers for $32 each and making an example for getting certified to a quality standard....
    Commercial firearms work is NOT a good example of a reason to get certified to AS/ISO. We do a ton of it but its only fill in work since we are highly automated and takes little effort.
    The real benefit is to go after work that pays 3x as well that goes into the air...,

    You throw around a lot of claims and numbers but yet dont have the ego to post your shop anywhere lol.
    At least though of us who do post here don't hide behind vague outlandish statements like the one quoted here and in other threads.

  6. #106
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    I never did ISO, and mostly do my own stuff now, but I came from a background that I understood QC, and ISO is basically just you saying what you are going to do and doing what you say, with docs to back it up.

    I don't' think you could do much commercial work around here without it today unless you knew the buyer

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    Quote Originally Posted by dstryr View Post
    lol... bragging about making forged uppers for $32 each and making an example for getting certified to a quality standard....
    Commercial firearms work is NOT a good example of a reason to get certified to AS/ISO. We do a ton of it but its only fill in work since we are highly automated and takes little effort.
    The real benefit is to go after work that pays 3x as well that goes into the air...,

    You throw around a lot of claims and numbers but yet dont have the ego to post your shop anywhere lol.
    At least though of us who do post here don't hide behind vague outlandish statements like the one quoted.
    That was just one example of an easy no brain job that anyone with ISO and the capability can get. It's also the whats hot industry right now.

    Not like you're getting aerospace work without a TON of other infrastructure in place that clearly a shop the size of wheelies wouldn't have and couldn't get easily.

    I also have no desire to post anything about my shop on here for a multitude of reasons that could possibly affect my shop getting certain types of work in the future.

    As for things being a race to the bottom, IDK about that. There's plenty of good money in gun parts even if they dont pay as much as oh lets say aerospace...you know the industry that has tanked since covid19 an is wildly unpredictable... guns on the other hand are always predictable, everyones scared of the gov so they want more and more and more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    Dude, you posted a problem, people are posting possible resolutions. One of the possibilities to consider is that your pay scale is inappropriate.

    Maybe not.

    If you are having trouble making money with a guy who runs five machines at a time, there is a significant possibility that there is something wrong with your process, business model, whatever.

    5 machines should be making a total of at least 300 an hour[hopefully 500 +], meaning his weekly salary is paid in 2 hours. What is he doing the rest of the week?

    And you are not hiring anybody useful right now, maybe you should be looking for machinists.

    FedEx does not pay as well as UPS, but both jobs suck, and driving a package car in Arizona probably sucks out loud.

    Fellow long term business owners are giving you opinions that conflict with your own

    Do with them what you will
    I wasn't asking for advice.

    By the way, show me a "machinist" that wants to run production..................again, I will not hold my breath.

    The guy before this last guy was a machinist. I made sure he understood EXACTLY what the job was. Then questioned him again when he said he wanted to work here.
    He didn't make it through the first day.

    The bottom line with all the bickering in this thread so far (where I never once asked for advice),
    The general consensus is: pay more to get better applicants.
    Let me sum the reality up like this:
    Before I pay more (taking money out of my own pocket) I will go get a job as a machinist for somebody else.
    And, let them deal with the headaches. I am doing this to make money. Not give it away.
    I am looking for young people fresh out of school, just getting started in life. Nobody starts out middle-class off the hop.
    Some of you guys are freaking out of touch with how life works (maybe you forgot?).
    Or you think I am looking to hire 30yr/olds? 40yr/olds? That already have two kids and a $300k mortgage?
    No, I am not looking for that person, because I already know, they do not want to work here.
    I got my start, doing pretty much exactly what I am hiring for. I got in at just above minimum wage. And, over the years worked my way up to where I am today.
    This is how it works. Some jobs are nothing more than stepping stones. The job I am hiring for is a stepping stone.
    I fully expect anybody worth a crap, that comes in here to work, to leave eventually.
    This is not a career job. Unless flipping burgers would be an acceptable career for you (since those references keep popping up).

    The jist of the thread was, "kids these days are a mess and dont want to work". NOT, "how can I find decent help".

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    Fair enough on the last sentence...but we already knew this. Our grandparents generation said the same about our generations...nothing has changed...

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    Quote Originally Posted by as9100d View Post
    As for things being a race to the bottom, IDK about that. There's plenty of good money in gun parts even if they dont pay as much as oh lets say aerospace...you know the industry that has tanked since covid19 an is wildly unpredictable... guns on the other hand are always predictable, everyones scared of the gov so they want more and more and more.
    Well, we do agree on one thing.

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    We agree on almost everything except "how to make money" lol

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    I know you are not looking for advice, but that ship has clearly passed.

    Any chance you have a contact at the local high school? At a previous place I worked, we had a group of high school kids come in on the weekend to work. Things like deburring or basic assembly. Cheap labor, and if you are lucky one or two might want to stick around after graduation.

    It might mean a shift of your current working hours though. That is the downside.

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    Quote Originally Posted by as9100d View Post
    We agree on almost everything except "how to make money" lol
    No, you fail to understand the concept of how to make money given a set of self imposed hard and fast parameters.
    Your answer is "change the parameters!". My response of "I don't fucking want to" is unacceptable to you.
    And, I DGAF. But, you keep pushing.

    You go make your money your way.
    And, I'll continue to make my money my way (without trying to tell you what you are doing wrong (not that I think you are doing anything wrong, see how that works?!)).

    Or, in other words: you play your strong suit, and I'll play mine!

    If you make more than me? I really could not care less. I have a goal, pay my mortgage off by the end of next year.
    That is all it takes to make me happy. I could do it right now, but I don't want to be at $0.

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  17. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    I wasn't asking for advice.

    By the way, show me a "machinist" that wants to run production..................again, I will not hold my breath.

    The guy before this last guy was a machinist. I made sure he understood EXACTLY what the job was. Then questioned him again when he said he wanted to work here.
    He didn't make it through the first day.

    The bottom line with all the bickering in this thread so far (where I never once asked for advice),
    The general consensus is: pay more to get better applicants.
    Let me sum the reality up like this:
    Before I pay more (taking money out of my own pocket) I will go get a job as a machinist for somebody else.
    And, let them deal with the headaches. I am doing this to make money. Not give it away.
    I am looking for young people fresh out of school, just getting started in life. Nobody starts out middle-class off the hop.
    Some of you guys are freaking out of touch with how life works (maybe you forgot?).
    Or you think I am looking to hire 30yr/olds? 40yr/olds? That already have two kids and a $300k mortgage?
    No, I am not looking for that person, because I already know, they do not want to work here.
    I got my start, doing pretty much exactly what I am hiring for. I got in at just above minimum wage. And, over the years worked my way up to where I am today.
    This is how it works. Some jobs are nothing more than stepping stones. The job I am hiring for is a stepping stone.

    I fully expect anybody worth a crap, that comes in here to work, to leave eventually.
    This is not a career job. Unless flipping burgers would be an acceptable career for you (since those references keep popping up).

    The jist of the thread was, "kids these days are a mess and dont want to work". NOT, "how can I find decent help".
    That is exactly what I said/did. I started at the bottom, and now (even though I don't own a shop, nor do I want to) I sit at a PC programming most of the week. I did some setup today because the machine is brand new and squeaky clean.

    I think wheelie has spelled out "his" problem, and it's not hiring a top end 'chinist for $25/hr. He wants needs general labor, which from his ad does indeed pay more than McD or BK, and try getting 40 hours at a place like that? Even if you made $20/hr you would probably still come out behind at the end of the week...

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    Quote Originally Posted by as9100d View Post
    Might I suggest getting your ISO and working to get higher paying work?
    Theeeeeeeeere it is

    (Sorry, I had to )


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    Younger generation doesn't seem to be as naive as the previous ones. I was young and naive and fell for a "start you low but prove you are a good worker and I'll increase your pay" line and got burned. I worked hard and smart which led to tiny tiny raises but much much more work load and responsibilities.

    I've never fallen for that again. An in writing pay scale over time with clear objectives to meet is a big plus if I'm looking to work for a business. I do not and will not trust flattery like I did at my first job. I hear flattery and in my head I just think liar liar liar liar.

    Personal favorite was an HR lady's speech to me after asking for a raise. She went on about I didn't have the correct loyalty to see the company succeed. I promptly turned in my notice then after a meeting got the raise I wanted and continued working for them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    I wasn't asking for advice.
    .

    The jist of the thread was, "kids these days are a mess and dont want to work". NOT, "how can I find decent help".
    So you just wanted to whine, and hear, 'poor you, people suck, its not your fault, you are special'

    Then call your mom

    Kids will work. They do it every day, they just don't want work for an unappreciative dick you makes them piss in the bushes

    Its the internet, this is the second nicest most on topic discussion you are bound to find

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  23. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    The general consensus is: pay more to get better applicants.
    Let me sum the reality up like this:
    Before I pay more (taking money out of my own pocket) I will go get a job as a machinist for somebody else.
    And, let them deal with the headaches. I am doing this to make money. Not give it away.

    <...snip...>

    The jist of the thread was, "kids these days are a mess and dont want to work". NOT, "how can I find decent help".

    Bill, from two thousand miles away, and through a computer screen, I like you. (Hell, I sent you some schwag before just for the hell of it.) I really appreciate your story, and all of the hard work that YOU, and any entrepreneur have put in to be successful. But damnit man that reads like one of the most selfish son of a bitch statements I've ever seen...





    Now, I certainly get that sometimes a guy needs to blow off steam to his peers, and what better place to do that than here on PM. (Except that it's kind of public I guess, but still - amongst friends...)

    But seriously - You said that you needed a guy to run 3 mills. when you come in, the guy has !_5_! mills running making good parts, and then in another breath, you mention that you'd be damned if you'd pay him or anyone else, anymore money...? WTF man, he's going above and beyond to make YOU money - how is that not deserving of a higher wage?

    And on a business note, how does that kind of performance not financially justify a higher wage. Even at a measly $60/hour rate, ($1/minute/spindle) the guy is bringing in $180/hour on the (3) spindle work day. And then, he brings in an extra $120/hour, just because, yet that kind of performance wouldn't justify a little extra thrown his way...? Seriously, WFT...?



    (As a counterpoint in your favor, you mentioned bonuses earlier as well. So I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you'd show appreciation for this guy's above & beyond attitude & hard work, with a few large cash-bills and a case of beer for him on Friday every now & then...)




    I understand that a business owner's goal is to make money. It is his/her right to make sure that they stuff their pockets with as much as they can, as reward for all of their risk & hard work. BUT, if I ever heard my employer say to me, that he'd be damned - quit & work for the man again - before he took money out of his own pocket in order to pay me [more]... (Or any other employee for that matter...)

    That would light the fire within me to find new employment ASAP. (And to leave a big fat hairy dildo, gift-wrapped neatly with a bow on top, on his desk on my way out. With a signed, personal note from me as well, just to make sure there was no confusion - "...you know what to do with it..." )










    Just sharing an observation I guess. I'll still share a beer with you. I hope it works out for you. (I really do.)

  24. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by LOTT View Post
    Find some 22 year old leaving active duty after one enlistment from Luke AFB or Yuma. A lot of these guys still aren't sure what they want to do, and while they may not be around forever you'll get the help you need for a bit. Apart from the occasional rotten apple most are going to be used to showing up on time and doing what they're told.

    Long term you need to install that bathroom to open up the possible candidates a bit...
    My first job after six years in the USAF was as an electronic technician. Work started at 0730. Two weeks into the job, my boss found me at the drinking fountain at 0720, as usual, wetting my soldering iron sponge. "Just want you to know I appreciate your being on time every day." I was dumbfounded, and said, "Thanks," but I thought, "you mean being on time every day is optional?"

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  26. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    No, you fail to understand the concept of how to make money given a set of self imposed hard and fast parameters.
    Your answer is "change the parameters!". My response of "I don't fucking want to" is unacceptable to you.
    And, I DGAF. But, you keep pushing.

    You go make your money your way.
    And, I'll continue to make my money my way (without trying to tell you what you are doing wrong (not that I think you are doing anything wrong, see how that works?!)).

    Or, in other words: you play your strong suit, and I'll play mine!

    If you make more than me? I really could not care less. I have a goal, pay my mortgage off by the end of next year.
    That is all it takes to make me happy. I could do it right now, but I don't want to be at $0.
    No you come on here bitching about your hires not working out and push it off on "not having enough money in jobs to pay more" well you're doing something wrong by the laws of business.

    My advice is for you to sell off your shop and never look back. You will be much happier given the number of rant threads you post on here.

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