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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by macgyver View Post
    Up until I bought my place I always dreamed to have a place the size of a Walmart Supercenter, then I had to do maintenance on mine and I also like to keep it a nice temp. Now I think my 6k shop is an ok size. It is about the most I want to handle by myself. Keeps me from buying anymore stuff too.
    I agree 100%. I drew up a 10K square foot building and ended up shrinking it to 7K to match my budget. I can just barely heat the place when it gets down in the 30's with a 250K BTU furnace, but it does stay nice and cool in the summer. I could cram my stuff into less room, but I wanted room for forklift and flex space. I'm glad I didn't go bigger, but everyone's situation is different.

  2. #22
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    There is the possibility this is a 'tiger by the tail' situation

    We moved most of my stuff this week and it's already looking smaller. As mentioned, we came from 6k sqft and probably needed 12k. But we do some larger scale projects too.

    Last year we modded 8 shipping containers and had to move them in one at a time on skates. At the height of that project we had two inside and two outside waiting.

    I have a few good production opportunities and just got an autosaw to help with that.

    Other building highlights/info (I'd post some more pics but PM isn't playing nice right now):

    It has a darkroom 'upstairs' and a bunch of old negatives in it, as well as handwritten correspondence from the 60's.

    Crank open windows. Steel rack grid for flat bar and tube. A bunch of other shelving, cantilever rack and cubbies, more than I'll need. A tool crib with Mezzanine. The front office seems to be 1960s. There is a 'kitchen' with porcelain steel cabinets and a counter with built in electric oven next to the sink...all one unit.

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  4. #23
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    congrats... looks like a great space


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  5. #24
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    Not to toss water on your fire but in Montana it cost .20 a sqr ft for heat (6 mo a year), taxes are .20 a sqr ft a mo. electric runs .10 a sqr ft for lights, insurance is .05 a sqr ft/ mo and you have the repair of the building and the biggy... payback of the loan...Can 4 guys make enough to show a profit with this overhead. I had to find a smaller place as one man I could not pay for a 6000 sqr ft shop and show a profit. You might think about a sub lease to someone until you have the workload to pay for all of the overhead...Phil

  6. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Montana View Post
    Not to toss water on your fire but in Montana it cost .20 a sqr ft for heat (6 mo a year), taxes are .20 a sqr ft a mo. electric runs .10 a sqr ft for lights, insurance is .05 a sqr ft/ mo and you have the repair of the building and the biggy... payback of the loan...Can 4 guys make enough to show a profit with this overhead. I had to find a smaller place as one man I could not pay for a 6000 sqr ft shop and show a profit. You might think about a sub lease to someone until you have the workload to pay for all of the overhead...Phil
    I would assume the OP knows all this, otherwise he wouldn't have bought the building if he didn't think he could make the payments and a decent profit.

    On the other hand, I would have bought the building, walked in after it closed and thought "how the f*** am I going to pay for this"my financila planning has never been that good

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  8. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by triumph406 View Post
    I would assume the OP knows all this, otherwise he wouldn't have bought the building if he didn't think he could make the payments and a decent profit.

    On the other hand, I would have bought the building, walked in after it closed and thought "how the f*** am I going to pay for this"my financila planning has never been that good


    Phil needs to let me have my honeymoon for a week at least

    I'd say I have a good mix of proper planning and naïve optimism. We've had several good years, I plan on growing. The payment is more or less the same as my rent payment. Taxes might hurt and I'm sure there will be plenty of surprises along the way.

    It has a new roof...2019, so that's something.

    I haven't figured out the heating situation, as there two large units coming off a 2" gas line. maybe move to some radiant heaters over workstations...

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  10. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamscal View Post
    Phil needs to let me have my honeymoon for a week at least
    How long a honeymoon do you want before I tell you I'm looking to move East and need some space?!!

    The downside to this space is all your relatives and friends (new and old) are not going to understand why they can't park their RV's/campers/boats/trucks/cars/atv's/sxs's etc in the corner for free.

    On the other hand I'm willing to pay you $0.50/sq foot for a few fadals,makino and some manual machines. and first month free as a move in bonus.

  11. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Montana View Post
    Not to toss water on your fire but in Montana it cost .20 a sqr ft for heat (6 mo a year), taxes are .20 a sqr ft a mo. electric runs .10 a sqr ft for lights, insurance is .05 a sqr ft/ mo and you have the repair of the building and the biggy... payback of the loan...Can 4 guys make enough to show a profit with this overhead. I had to find a smaller place as one man I could not pay for a 6000 sqr ft shop and show a profit. You might think about a sub lease to someone until you have the workload to pay for all of the overhead...Phil
    The taxes around here are highly dependent on age. Your estimate for taxes is accurate for new construction in this area, but a 1930s building would probably only be 1/10 that much. Anything older than 1980 is pretty reasonable on taxes. Then you have the R0-R2 insulation to deal with, but in our area, if he can live with 50F in the winter, I would guess his gas would only kick on for about 6-10wks a yr. Maybe $2000 for one month if it drops below 0F? I have 5400sf and only used 700 gallons of propane here last winter, and half of that was in one cold week.

    My light bill would be right on that, but annual, not per month. Insurance is right on.

    The low intensity radiant heaters are pretty slick for a leaky building. Or when you make a ton of smoke/mist and need to change the air every hr anyway.

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  13. #29
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    Buy I wish Montana was that easy, 12k in taxes, 2.5 k for heat lights in winter with .12/kva demand and .11/kw usage... I build my building in 1971, I own it and can even stay there... have to find someone with deep pockets to rent it...Phil

  14. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    Shop politics seem to go on no matter how small a work crew there is.
    Not so bad if yah have two or more.

    Worst-case is when you work alone, coz 100% of the krew are nasty.

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  16. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by triumph406 View Post
    How long a honeymoon do you want before I tell you I'm looking to move East and need some space?!!
    I'll give you a tour but no promises.

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  18. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Montana View Post
    Buy I wish Montana was that easy, 12k in taxes, 2.5 k for heat lights in winter with .12/kva demand and .11/kw usage... I build my building in 1971, I own it and can even stay there... have to find someone with deep pockets to rent it...Phil
    Lot of competition here, and I'm an hour from the nearest large city. Probably 20+ other machine shops within 10 miles.

  19. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Montana View Post
    Buy I wish Montana was that easy, 12k in taxes, 2.5 k for heat lights in winter with .12/kva demand and .11/kw usage... I build my building in 1971, I own it and can even stay there... have to find someone with deep pockets to rent it...Phil
    There are downsides to building a gigantic building in your rural backyard, but overhead sure isn't one of them.

    You can sell off your building for a good chunk whenever you want, but I keep $15k more a year in my pocket.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garwood View Post
    There are downsides to building a gigantic building in your rural backyard, but overhead sure isn't one of them.

    You can sell off your building for a good chunk whenever you want, but I keep $15k more a year in my pocket.
    I think its close to break even for building new in the back yard, vs renting/buying an older building.

    Building new commercial, better have some lube on hand at tax time.

    I ended up renting this place because it had 480 power, the location fits well, and the rent is roughly the same cost as what my mortgage would be to build something similar. I despise renting and its limitations, but it really has been a good arrangement for me getting started.

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  22. #35
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    My shop is in a little town of a few hundred just a few miles from the town I live in. I bought it with 600 amps of 3 phase in place and heat and AC as well. I got it without any trouble for $4.32/ft. It is in a location that would not be successful for a retail business, but for what I do it is great. I know it will never be worth anymore than what I paid for it, maybe bump it up with inflation, not sure. I am not worried about it. If I had bought anything remotely similar in my town I live it, it would have been 4 times the price or more and the overhead would be unbearable. There is quite the difference in the two counties and their attitudes, requirements etc. I would have had a hard time surviving if I had the payment to go with the higher priced building.

  23. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by macgyver View Post
    My shop is in a little town of a few hundred just a few miles from the town I live in. I bought it with 600 amps of 3 phase in place and heat and AC as well. I got it without any trouble for $4.32/ft. It is in a location that would not be successful for a retail business, but for what I do it is great. I know it will never be worth anymore than what I paid for it, maybe bump it up with inflation, not sure. I am not worried about it. If I had bought anything remotely similar in my town I live it, it would have been 4 times the price or more and the overhead would be unbearable. There is quite the difference in the two counties and their attitudes, requirements etc. I would have had a hard time surviving if I had the payment to go with the higher priced building.
    Sheesh, most stuff rents for more than that here.

    There isnt anything usable for sale right now, but since things rebounded after 2008, advertised sale prices are usually in the 20-50/ft range. Idk if anyone actually pays anywhere near that, but I highly doubt much stuff goes for anything less than 75% asking price.

    Takes more than a few miles to do any better also. Probably have to go at least an hour, and I still dont think there are any buildings in MO for 4 bucks a foot, maybe 10 or 15 out in the sticks. There is one huge place in a flood plain that had nuke waste stored in it, and it's still $7

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  25. #37
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    img_20210325_202927_192.jpg
    img_20210325_202927_277.jpg
    img_20210325_202927_335.jpg

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  27. #38
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    img_20210325_202927_367.jpgimg_20210325_202927_404.jpg

    There are 2 of these rr stubs welded to columns...for beating on ductwork I suppose.

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  29. #39
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    img_20210325_202927_454.jpg

    Fire dept training center surrounds most of my property. They're out there pretty often.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamscal View Post
    img_20210325_202927_454.jpg

    Fire dept training center surrounds most of my property. They're out there pretty often.
    Well, at least you should have a pretty good response time if something bad should happen.


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