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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobw View Post
    I know somebody like that.. They kept getting fired.. The reason was that they were SO GOOD!!!!! at every job, that they made everybody else look SOOOOO!!! BAD!!! that management couldn't keep them around.. Bad for moral when everybody else is so inferior to the Most Stupendous waiter AppleBee's ever had.
    Hey, I know one as well.
    Just a couple months ago: Me: "what happened over there man? I heard that place was hoppin". Him: "Production manager didn't like me cause I am smarter than him".

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    Quote Originally Posted by SND View Post
    If you show up on time sober with your brain turned on ready to learn, you're already ahead of many.
    If that's even almost true then things "over there" must be very bad. Turn up here anywhere and you're not sober your next job will be looking for a new job.

    No, I'm not saying it never happens but you will be fired.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    If that's even almost true then things "over there" must be very bad. Turn up here anywhere and you're not sober your next job will be looking for a new job.

    No, I'm not saying it never happens but you will be fired.
    Just a WAG, but probably not as much sober as not hungover, but I don't want to put words in someone's mouth.

    However, you have to realize comparing Denmark (and toss in a few more Euro countries) size wise we aren't even on the same page! US is almost 3.8mil sq miles, Denmark is 16.5k sq miles (yes 16,500 roughly).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    If that's even almost true then things "over there" must be very bad. Turn up here anywhere and you're not sober your next job will be looking for a new job.

    No, I'm not saying it never happens but you will be fired.
    My limited experience in Europe says it is just as prevalent there as here. Definitions are different though. The company I worked for in the US, in the tool room if you showed up smelling of alcohol you would be asked to go home as a skilled laborer. Production was usually teminated. Didn’t matter what or why or when. Same company, in the tool room in Germany, had beer in the vending machines.

    When my dad was managing a plant in Reims, he had issues with some employees that were drunks. We would call them drunks, the French did not, and nothing happened.

    When I worked in the Netherlands (for a VERY short time) I was offered alcohol on the job on a regular basis. To have coworkers return from lunch with sparkling eyes and alcohol on their breathe was normal. All fireable offenses in the US.

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    Just go in there a little early if you have tools, and be ready to grunt work for a bit. Machinist are like being back in the locker room in high school. If they see that you can hang in there and show up everyday ready to go. I had guys that wouldn't even talk to me or ask my name until I was there for 6 months. Had some that told me that but after a few weeks they were talking to me like man your a worker kind of guy we need around here. Before you know it your going to be accepted and doing more in a short time than you think.
    Machining is a career path that will take you as far as you want to go. I started out as green as you can be asking questions, doing any task giving to me, and watching videos or reading books at home. Now 10 years in I made it into Tool and Die from job shop. The company is amazing make great money and great benefits. Now, I'm starting my own small shop with 1 machine in the evenings, and weekends. You can go as far as you want to go with this trade hands down. There will be negative people but there will always be those guys. No one came into the trade knowing everything there is to know. They just want to discourage you, mess with you, or just hate their own life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    If that's even almost true then things "over there" must be very bad. Turn up here anywhere and you're not sober your next job will be looking for a new job.

    No, I'm not saying it never happens but you will be fired.

    Who consumes more alcohol? If it is bad over here it must be a lot worse by you. List of countries by alcohol consumption per capita - Wikipedia

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    If that's even almost true then things "over there" must be very bad. Turn up here anywhere and you're not sober your next job will be looking for a new job.

    No, I'm not saying it never happens but you will be fired.
    I was rolling everything into "sober with your brain turned on".
    Pot, prescription meds that mess with brain/coordination/concentration, hangovers, even just major lack of sleep or too distracted by something else can be bad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DMF_TomB View Post
    many cnc have many buttons and nobody and i mean nobody can walk up to a cnc they never saw or used before without needing some training on it. its normal to need 1 or more months of training on each cnc
    Oh Tom, but there are ppl that walk up to a cnc we never saw, and not only learn how to operate it, but we learn how it works, what parts it is made of and which part has which function. And all usually in a day or two. And then we repair them. Forgot to say that the machines we learn are usually broken, and we must be able to extrapolate proper working conditions based on what we see. They call us CNC service tehnicians/magicians. Depends how one looks at it. Somewhat more easily found then the proverbial unicorn, but not by much really. So, to recap, my job requires to have operating, programming and setting up all various kinds of machines in my little finger, that is like 10% of my total knowledge. Of the knowledge that is reguired to repair broken machines. Often without any manuals. Or anyone really, who knows how to operate said machine. I also have to have an complete knowledge of all various controls (30+ models and makes), electronics, electrics, servo motors and drives, PLC interface computers, hydraulics, pneumatics, machine kinematic, just to mention a few. Interesting job, isnt it?

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    And as for the OP's question - I am frequently in the position to train new ppl in various companies I work for (service related work). Since schools for metal vocation here are becoming an joke, and no good ppl ready to work come out of them anymore, only solution for company owners here is to train them. Make them. And since they have neither the time or will, thats where I step in. I am going to tell you my take on it. If you have the will to work, if you put in the time needed, you will progress. Will to work, you wanting to do your best in this metal producing is No.1. Dedication, be serious about your job. In 80% of cases such ppl are made to be proper and quality machinists over the years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cnc_machinist View Post
    Oh Tom, but there are ppl that walk up to a cnc we never saw, and not only learn how to operate it, but we learn how it works, what parts it is made of and which part has which function. And all usually in a day or two. And then we repair them. Forgot to say that the machines we learn are usually broken, and we must be able to extrapolate proper working conditions based on what we see. They call us CNC service tehnicians/magicians. Depends how one looks at it. Somewhat more easily found then the proverbial unicorn, but not by much really. So, to recap, my job requires to have operating, programming and setting up all various kinds of machines in my little finger, that is like 10% of my total knowledge. Of the knowledge that is reguired to repair broken machines. Often without any manuals. Or anyone really, who knows how to operate said machine. I also have to have an complete knowledge of all various controls (30+ models and makes), electronics, electrics, servo motors and drives, PLC interface computers, hydraulics, pneumatics, machine kinematic, just to mention a few. Interesting job, isnt it?
    I started a new job as a machine designer doing Cad design. Next day they fired the one CNC operator running a Fadal 4020. The owner asked if anyone had CNC experience. I had played with an old Bandit on a knee mill and said I would take the manual home and see if I could handle it until they hired a new guy. I ran the machine for about two months doing all the programming by hand mostly for castings and such and used macros a lot. Then they hired a very good CNC operator. I was still doing the programming. A month goes by and one day he says to me "You do some really trick programming, how many years you been doing it?" I said 3 months. He says "Yeah I know you've been here 3 months, but how many years CNC programming?" I said 3 months. He said how is that possible? I said well I have done PC programming and to me it's just a big printer. When I make mistake its written in metal!

    So yeah some of us don't get scared off by lots of buttons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by garyhlucas View Post
    I started a new job as a machine designer doing Cad design. Next day they fired the one CNC operator running a Fadal 4020. The owner asked if anyone had CNC experience. I had played with an old Bandit on a knee mill and said I would take the manual home and see if I could handle it until they hired a new guy. I ran the machine for about two months doing all the programming by hand mostly for castings and such and used macros a lot. Then they hired a very good CNC operator. I was still doing the programming. A month goes by and one day he says to me "You do some really trick programming, how many years you been doing it?" I said 3 months. He says "Yeah I know you've been here 3 months, but how many years CNC programming?" I said 3 months. He said how is that possible? I said well I have done PC programming and to me it's just a big printer. When I make mistake its written in metal!

    So yeah some of us don't get scared off by lots of buttons.
    I took a new job, moving out of state with my family. It turned out to be Yasnac I80 control and I had run/programmed only Haas and one Fanuc robodrill... Woof what a time! It took me an entire day to get the machine homed (hadn't been run in months), kept faulting out and over-travelling > which led me back to the manual as no one had a clue what was wrong, hell they could barely spell CNC LoL.... Had to get into parameters (I know some of you this is childs play) and being a Haas guy mostly it's like learning a foreign language haha. So ya, once you been in this for a while you get to sort of know what to look for when problems come up and you figure it out.

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    Showing up to work on time every day and doing what you are told is essential. Attitude is important because anyone new has much better instruction if they are likable. Sure the young fellows and gals should get along with the older and experienced characters who are everywhere in our trade.

    I worked in a shop early on where my mentor would pick up any scales and spring calipers that were left out. He put them in his box and would open the drawer and show them to you as his finds. No one touched his toolbox ever.

    He and his brother who worked there hunted rattlesnakes and would make belts out of them. Very good ones. They would bring them to work in a wooden box labeled Rattle Snakes keep back. First time I saw it I thought it was a joke. They opened it up to show me- no joke. Interesting experience and they had great stories about their fishing and hunting.

    One of the brothers would get his fishing pole and get Camo on and crawl through a Farmers field to fish on private property. He got a adrenaline kick out of it a full grown man with kids and a top notch do it all Machinist. My point is they are all great people those who grace our trade. They will help someone learn what they know but they have to like you first and you will pay homage for the directions.

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    First day...I would expect to show up a few minutes early, dressed to work, with a pen to fill out paperwork and a notepad to start taking notes.

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    Show up early.
    Be a good listener and be humble.
    Ask when you don't quite get it, never wing it.
    You are low man on the totem pole, understand that, swallow your pride and earn the respect of those grumpy old farts.
    Park the cell phone in the car until you are told you should use one as a calculator or maybe even viewing prints.
    Stand up straight, respectfully ask questions when things not clear, pay attention.
    It is no different than it has always been.
    I would never expect any new employee to understand my floor and processes.
    A I know cncs and all practices attitude leads to being setup to fail ......not so good and you will not be happy or treated well by the others around you.
    Bob

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    Re the thread title "What is Expected Day 1 on the job?"

    Here it would be very unusual if, on the first day, much of the time wasn't used to show you around, explain how and why things get done as they do and say "Hi" to as many colleagues as possible. Many larger companies in fact have procedures for this.

    As to what is expected from you on the first day then that you listen to what is said, show interest and ask sensible questions. Getting hired without an interview is very rare so the shop or company will already feel they know what you can and can't do.

    Of course not all shops or companies use the first day on this but they have a harder time finding good employees than those that do.

    This is for a typical office worker but I'm sure you get the drift.

    Your first day at work in Denmark: Flowers, handshakes, and passwords

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    Default This is a great question

    Quote Originally Posted by joshuacisme View Post
    Hello. I'm brand new to this field. I'm 36 and went the college route (BS in Business) when I was fresh out of high school. After moderate success in the business world, I had a mid-life crisis and decided to study a trade because like working with my hands. Machining is something that greatly interests me and I have mad respect for people who are really good at it. Several of my uncles are old-school machinists who have helped me with car projects - so for the past year I have been in vocational school learning everything I can.

    I love the work, from what I have been exposed to in school, but there it seems watered down/unstructured and I'm not sure what to expect in the real-world. We are kinda left to our own and have a shop for trial and error with little instruction. The manual lathe made sense early on … but the manual mill still gives me trouble, ie I will square something and it doesn't rest on the parallels perfectly - even though I have trammed the mill dead nuts. At times I feel defunct on some things - although I can draw blueprints and write programs, setup CNC mills/lathes, and I can do almost everything basic on the EDM. I feel like a hodgepodge of knowledge with sprinkles of talent, but it's not all come together like I think it should.

    I have about 4 months left that I can stay in school … but I am starting to get coop opportunities. The shop I really want to be at is a BIG shop that focuses on automation machines. I know they have an apprentice program that closely resembles a journeyman program in that they build you up on manual machines before you ever get to touch a CNC (2 years). They haven't had an opening as of yet, but may by the time I'm done with school. Not really sure what to do or whether I should just start with a smaller production/job shop to get my beak wet.

    MY QUESTIONS:
    1.) MAIN ONE: what do most shops expect out of a new machinist the first day on the job? Within the first month-3 months?
    2.) should I keep trying to build myself up in school hoping for the BIG shop to have an opening or go with gaining experience in small shops?
    3.) To avoid being a simple button pusher, should I strive to get into a shop working manual machines or get the CNC experience?
    4.) Will having a BS degree in Business help at all or should I just wipe my ass with it like I have wanted to do for more than a decade?


    I know some of this has been covered in other threads and, believe me, I have read some good stuff. I'm just wondering if there is any new insight and really worried I won't be able to cut the mustard. I would go with a 110 degree shop making less money if there is that one old guy in the corner who is the right person to build me up to the level of machinist I hope to become … and I would gladly bring him coffee and sweep his area. Really appreciate this website! I find the community to be full of very intelligent/witty people. Thanks for reading and all replies appreciated
    First I would like to tell you about a guy I have in my shop right now that is going through an apprenticeship. He is in his late 40s, and has been a 5 star french chef for the past 20 plus years. His reason for changing careers was the hours and wanting to be able to spend more time with his family. He has used a lot of what he learned as a chef in the shop setting. IE organization, inventory control and the necessity of it as well as many other business related things. Honestly with your background you might find yourself better off in a smaller shop that could also use some of your advise on business. you may find it much more gratifying to use what you know and continue learning. Personally I have worked in both larger shops and smaller ones and the biggest problem with most larger shops is you get stuck somewhere and that's where you stay you don't learn but so much and the work is repetitive making the same parts for years on end. They will always tell you they are going to do all these great things for you but it never happens. Been there and done that so I started teaching myself by reading manuals and just doing it. Oh well got asked to leave when I repaired the machine I was working on because they couldn't. So now I'm in business for myself didn't want to deal with idiot bosses any more.

    So question 1; Different shops do things different ways some will stick you in front of a machine and have you do a single operation all day. Some will just give you a job and let you go with it. Me I like to teach and to learn so I will show you once how to do something then have you do it while I watch. I will tell you what you did right and what you did incorrectly and how to do it again until you have it down. Shops expect different things depending on the owner or the shop manager.

    Question 2; Doing is learning you can go to school your whole life but never really learn to do a job until you get you hands dirty.

    Question 3; absolutely learn and master manual machines. It will teach you a lot about machining in general. you will learn to feel things like how different materials cut as well as different cutters cut like materials. you will lean to listen to your tools and machine they will tell you when they aren't happy.

    Question 4; This is a big one EVERYTHING YOU'VE EVER LEARNED CAN BE APPLIED IN A MACHINE SHOP if they will listen to you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trueturning View Post

    I worked in a shop early on where my mentor would pick up any scales and spring calipers that were left out. He put them in his box and would open the drawer and show them to you as his finds. No one touched his toolbox ever.

    He and his brother who worked there hunted rattlesnakes and would make belts out of them. Very good ones. They would bring them to work in a wooden box labeled Rattle Snakes keep back. First time I saw it I thought it was a joke. They opened it up to show me- no joke. Interesting experience and they had great stories about their fishing and hunting.

    One of the brothers would get his fishing pole and get Camo on and crawl through a Farmers field to fish on private property. He got a adrenaline kick out of it a full grown man with kids and a top notch do it all Machinist. My point is they are all great people those who grace our trade. They will help someone learn what they know but they have to like you first and you will pay homage for the directions.
    Sound like a pair of real bullies.

    Take my stuff "left laying out" and I will get it back.
    Period.

    Trespass against a no trespassing sign on my property will get you much more than you bargained for.

    "Great Machinist's" ?

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    1. Don't throw away the BS but on your first months follow instructions without "any" argument. Don't tell them your view of how to run a business. Ever!!!!!
    2. Ask questions dozens of times a day and listen! If in doubt, ASK.
    3. After my Apprenticeship my greatest learning experience was moving from one shop to another as a contracted employee (aerospace)and learning lots of the trade and business.


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