Normal CNC repair co response time? Haas quoted 9 days out for belt replacement

I guess we have been a bit spoiled by our Leadwell repair guy. He usually can get out here within 2-3 days max, usually next day. We bought a new Haas ST30 in April and are in a bit of shock. About a month ago we decided to move it to a new spot in the same building and decided to use Haas to re-level etc ( since the machine is new ), I set everything up and gave our local Haas outlet an estimated date, and told them I would confirm the week before the actual move. When it was clear we would make the date for sure I called and told them it would be ready for them the afternoon of that particular day ( pre-set date ). They said "ok we will schedule a tech" and I thought we were good. On the day it was ready I let them know it was ready and they responded that nobody was available that day and they doubt anyone will be available the next day, and they will try for the day after that!

Fast forward till last week. Our operator stopped the chuck while running at low rpm while manually facing a large part. It stripped the teeth on the belts. I called our HFO and they said nobody will be available for 9 days. I have been doing this a long time and the only time I can remember not even being able to have a guy out to do such a minor job is when dealing directly with Fanuc. How in the world can they think 9 days to do a 2 hr job is acceptable?

Or is this normal? Honestly, I would be more accepting of this for a high end builder that sells few machines that need less repair but for a low end machine that is built in such high volume and sold to practically everyone I figured service would be more responsive.

Its called travel time, how many different 2 hr belt swaps do you think a tech can do in a typical day with a hour or 2 between em in driving time???

Equally i can assure you the tech game is about 50% drinking tea doing PM calls 35% installs that no company will fail on time wise and then about 15% break downs. Everyone wants break down response urgently, but very few customers will not be asse'y about putting of a maintenance/service visit when the machines up and running for a few days as they scheduled it into there production don't you know!!!!

Most big machine companies in any field, you want a guaranteed tech response time, you take out a contract and pay for it!!! It gives the system the slack financially to employ another spanner monkey on stand by! Pretty much every machine make - model in any field, print, machining, process engineering etc, non contract customers are the bottom of the pile, they want most free phone support, they want most questions answered and they want to pay the least for it. Theres a lot of dead time, costly travelling and infrastructure to put a tech crew in a area and keep it going. Its a big trade off between making a profit and having great response times and being too far out and pissing people like you off. It's not uncommon for work loads to vary massively day to day - week to week.

That this kind of lead time for simple repairs is absolutely unacceptable. Sometimes a region gets slammed, and everybody is busy for a week. But when jobs start getting pushed out that far, it's time to bring in some backup. I'm not a service engineer, but I've been sent out to make simple repairs plenty of times because the lead time for service was too long.

Unfortunately I think that your experience is becoming increasingly common. For a variety of reasons, the machine sales/service industry is REALLY struggling to attract and retain talented people.

adama said:

Its called travel time, how many different 2 hr belt swaps do you think a tech can do in a typical day with a hour or 2 between em in driving time???

Equally i can assure you the tech game is about 50% drinking tea doing PM calls 35% installs that no company will fail on time wise and then about 15% break downs. Everyone wants break down response urgently, but very few customers will not be asse'y about putting of a maintenance/service visit when the machines up and running for a few days as they scheduled it into there production don't you know!!!!

Most big machine companies in any field, you want a guaranteed tech response time, you take out a contract and pay for it!!! It gives the system the slack financially to employ another spanner monkey on stand by! Pretty much every machine make - model in any field, print, machining, process engineering etc, non contract customers are the bottom of the pile, they want most free phone support, they want most questions answered and they want to pay the least for it. Theres a lot of dead time, costly travelling and infrastructure to put a tech crew in a area and keep it going. Its a big trade off between making a profit and having great response times and being too far out and pissing people like you off. It's not uncommon for work loads to vary massively day to day - week to week.

Click to expand...

Understood. Perhaps there is a bit of a culture or mentality issue involved also. This is oil country, excepting the coupling and tool joint shops most of our work is low qty and hot, especially right now. Maybe in more production oriented shops there is excess capacity or shifts to absorb downtime?

The HFO is 41 minutes from our shop according to Mapquest. So that means to replace the belts 1/2 day will realistically be alloted. Understood. But at the same time, we are not 300 mi away in some small town. To put it mildly, there IS a bit of industry here in the Houston area.

My HFO, when I am down will usually have a man here in 1-2 days...at most. I have had same day...although rare. I have also had a couple times that 1-2 days has gone over...few guys out on their end...or especially busy, they couldn't fix in allotted time etc. Happens I hate it, but I get it.

Overall 1-2 days.

No urgent, week or two.


You said Haas, being a lesser machine should be top shelf service. Mmmm other end of that, with so many sales, so many customers their are more machines in need of service. Only so many guys to schedule...has to be a happy medium of techs to customers. Don't wanna pay guys to hang around all day and twittle their thumbs, nor too few to always be behind the 8 ball.

You are lucky it's not me. I only get out to Plantersville about once a decade.

Product support is amazingly tough, you should try it sometime. I build waste treatment plants, and trust me the shit NEVER stops! That is why my cell phone is on 24/7/365, and yeah I do take trouble calls at 1 am and then drive 4 hours to the jobsite, sometimes getting home a few days later. In my third month at my last job I got a midnight call on Thanksgiving and was on a plane to arrive at the job at 8am to reprogram a PLC so a plant wouldn't have to shut down. This support question even came up at a demo day we did at a customers site. Somebody commented that our equipment was pretty sophisticated, what happens if it breaks? I held up my cell phone and a bunch of people laughed. Then the idiot, and I do me mean idiot operator pipes up and says "He isn't kidding, last week I called and he got here by 4 am!"

Now just this week I got to a job site I have been putting off for more than three weeks. Freaking 4 hour drive each way, 4 hours getting updated programming software just so I could add one rung to a PLC! But everyone needed something right away and that was best I could do.

If you are wondering, yes you WILL pay for this kind of service! To the OP complaining about the cost to replace a couple of belts. Just how much production did you lose while waiting, and what did that cost? There is the good chance that $200 and hour and got there today was way cheaper.

It's a belt. Why not order it from McMaster tonight, put it in tomorrow yourself and be making parts again by noon? It isn't like it's a special belt. A special belt would have tripped an alarm rather than shred itself.

garyhlucas said:

Product support is amazingly tough, you should try it sometime. I build waste treatment plants, and trust me the shit NEVER stops! That is why my cell phone is on 24/7/365, and yeah I do take trouble calls at 1 am and then drive 4 hours to the jobsite, sometimes getting home a few days later. In my third month at my last job I got a midnight call on Thanksgiving and was on a plane to arrive at the job at 8am to reprogram a PLC so a plant wouldn't have to shut down. This support question even came up at a demo day we did at a customers site. Somebody commented that our equipment was pretty sophisticated, what happens if it breaks? I held up my cell phone and a bunch of people laughed. Then the idiot, and I do me mean idiot operator pipes up and says "He isn't kidding, last week I called and he got here by 4 am!"

Now just this week I got to a job site I have been putting off for more than three weeks. Freaking 4 hour drive each way, 4 hours getting updated programming software just so I could add one rung to a PLC! But everyone needed something right away and that was best I could do.

If you are wondering, yes you WILL pay for this kind of service! To the OP complaining about the cost to replace a couple of belts. Just how much production did you lose while waiting, and what did that cost? There is the good chance that $200 and hour and got there today was way cheaper.

Click to expand...

Gary, it sounds like you are made of the right stuff.

We have an answering service for after hours 24x7x365 plus leap days . . . Customer gives plant location and machine description, the service looks it up via an online database, finds the responsible engineer(s) who know the system/machine and starts dialing phone numbers to relay the call. An email also goes out summarizing who called, what the problem is, customer contact information and which engineer received the call to follow up with the customer. Typical call back response time averages less than 15 minutes and we are Dept. of Homeland Security certified with several shipping companies allowing us to ship counter to counter if parts are needed.

In the case of something like a shredded belt . . . our customers want a "recommended spares" list from us and we sell spares to the customer before the machine is put into service . . . and, our warranty requires that they have purchased these spares if they want us to answer the phone during off business hours. (We still answer the phone, but we don't pull out all the stops if the customer hasn't bought a basic spares kit).

If it were me, I'd just buy a new belt and install it myself.

With the machine being so new, your salesman probably remembers you and would like to sell some more equipment to you. Give him a call and mention how difficult being without the lathe for so long is, and the issue of service will influence future purchasing decisions. That might get him to lean on tech service a little to speed up the visit.

But yeah, a belt is something that should be customer replaceable, and the Cali tech support folks have given me great phone help when I've needed to do my own repairs on my VMCs.

9 days is nothing. Try waiting a month at least for a belt change. This is the problem we encounter when getting anything done on our Mikron machines.

One time We waited 3 weeks for a tech and when he finally came in, the problem was fixed in literally 5 minutes!!!!

garyhlucas said:

Product support is amazingly tough, you should try it sometime. I build waste treatment plants, and trust me the shit NEVER stops! That is why my cell phone is on 24/7/365, and yeah I do take trouble calls at 1 am and then drive 4 hours to the jobsite, sometimes getting home a few days later. In my third month at my last job I got a midnight call on Thanksgiving and was on a plane to arrive at the job at 8am to reprogram a PLC so a plant wouldn't have to shut down. This support question even came up at a demo day we did at a customers site. Somebody commented that our equipment was pretty sophisticated, what happens if it breaks? I held up my cell phone and a bunch of people laughed. Then the idiot, and I do me mean idiot operator pipes up and says "He isn't kidding, last week I called and he got here by 4 am!"

Now just this week I got to a job site I have been putting off for more than three weeks. Freaking 4 hour drive each way, 4 hours getting updated programming software just so I could add one rung to a PLC! But everyone needed something right away and that was best I could do.

If you are wondering, yes you WILL pay for this kind of service! To the OP complaining about the cost to replace a couple of belts. Just how much production did you lose while waiting, and what did that cost? There is the good chance that $200 and hour and got there today was way cheaper.

Click to expand...

To the bolded above. I make a product on the side and while my sales have been relatively low I certainly have product support experience.

I did not complain about cost, merely response time.

To others, I have the belts here and am capable of replacing them myself, I have done so before on other machines. But being that I am not really a tech I feel that it would be best, particularly on a machine that is 5 months old, to have a real trained tech do it. I have found another company to do it. But believe the builder and service center should provide better service.

I'm sill trying to figure out how the machine stripped the belts.

Is this a haas thing?

Haas used to have service people there the next day, or 2nd day after the call. Things have slowed waaaay down, and quality of service is not as good as it could/should be. There used to be an independent guy that knew these things, and he was great. I think he git hired full time, and paid good money by someone, because he was worth it.
It is frustrating to be put off like that. They could find another good person, and train them. Of wait....a qualifier in there........

MotoX said:

I'm sill trying to figure out how the machine stripped the belts.

Is this a haas thing?

Click to expand...

Thats a dang good question. It didnt even throw an alarm.

We are about four of five hours away (in good weather) from any available service. We can almost always get service the next day. It does depend on the machine make. Haas, even though their machines might me considered "low end" has given us great service. The same with our more expensive Mazaks and Mori's.OKK, fuggetaboutit. With some of the dealers, you can play the "well, I am thinking about buying more of your machines, but your service is not the best" game. If they know, or even think you might buy from them again, your service will probably improve. Some dealers have a complete disconnect between the sales and service people, so that wont work. In the past, we have worked with the salespeople to get service quicker. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. Plus, bigger shops do seem to get better service than small shops.

pgmrmike said:

Thats a dang good question. It didnt even throw an alarm.

Click to expand...

The Haas machines are built so cheaply, they just leave a lot of stuff off that the more expensive machines include. We have had problems with the part catcher on our SL-10. It has a very weak air cylinder that actuates the catcher. It takes just a few chips built up on it for it to fail to actuate. That means it does not catch the part, and those crappy auger conveyors totally f*** up anything that ends up in the chip bin. When running unmanned, that sucks.

garyhlucas said:

Product support is amazingly tough,

Click to expand...

Yep it is, i did it non stop for over 2 years in the industrial print finishing - binary world, try working a 40 hour week of odd hours then also driving 2K miles a week on the uk road network were on a good journey you might get to average 30mph!! Really takes it's tole on ya fast. Being a techs also shit, the pay at best is mediocre, hours are shit, if you can't fix it there and then your the ass hole, if its simple all you here is we could have done that etc etc, all the more so when the company you work for is massively over selling what the tools can do in the first place. Most of the techs i worked with had zero in depth electrical or mechanical knowledge, most were part swappers. Hence pretty much every were i went i got the "oh shit they sent the boy" comments of the customers as i was the youngest tech there by about 50%!! often after 4 or more of the clueless fuckers i worked with had swapped enough parts to damn near build a machine yet not cleaned the dust out of the sensor that the error message refereed to as that actually involved laying on your back in the dust! You fix it, the customers then pissed it was something so simple, why did the last lot not do that, or they accuse you of just bodgeing it so you can get out of there before it breaks down again.

Then you get customers like the OP, they can do it, have the parts but for some reason don't? If a machine is down and its a warranty thing maybe? When its your own bloke that broke it??? Surely you give him the spanners and tell him to fix it or fuck off??

The whole 5 minute fix thing is all to common too, (RTFM - READ THE FUCKING MANUAL) as is chasing the phantom noise (give me flames over a squeak any day or my all time favorite "it just sounds odd - louder now that i got my new hearing aid and thought i better get you in"). Operators qualified to the eye balls but not capable of adding basic numbers or for that matter changing a frigging loo roll, finding places hidden in the ass ends of no were with zero sign-age + more are just some of the shit you get to deal with as a tech. I only took the job to get enough income as a sallery to get a mortgage, would rather gut pigs than go back to that game these days. Its a incredibly lonely existence, yeah you get a few common customers, but you go months between seeing your colleagues. So yeah i can more than get why most places find it really hard to recruit competent people that will do what it takes. Be3cause any one with the skills to be good in the tech game is already makeing a living doing something that pays more or is nicer hours :-)

adama said:

Yep it is, i did it non stop for over 2 years in the industrial print finishing - binary world, try working a 40 hour week of odd hours then also driving 2K miles a week on the uk road network were on a good journey you might get to average 30mph!! Really takes it's tole on ya fast. Being a techs also shit, the pay at best is mediocre, hours are shit, if you can't fix it there and then your the ass hole, if its simple all you here is we could have done that etc etc, all the more so when the company you work for is massively over selling what the tools can do in the first place. Most of the techs i worked with had zero in depth electrical or mechanical knowledge, most were part swappers. Hence pretty much every were i went i got the "oh shit they sent the boy" comments of the customers as i was the youngest tech there by about 50%!! often after 4 or more of the clueless fuckers i worked with had swapped enough parts to damn near build a machine yet not cleaned the dust out of the sensor that the error message refereed to as that actually involved laying on your back in the dust! You fix it, the customers then pissed it was something so simple, why did the last lot not do that, or they accuse you of just bodgeing it so you can get out of there before it breaks down again.

Then you get customers like the OP, they can do it, have the parts but for some reason don't? If a machine is down and its a warranty thing maybe? When its your own bloke that broke it??? Surely you give him the spanners and tell him to fix it or fuck off??

The whole 5 minute fix thing is all to common too, (RTFM - READ THE FUCKING MANUAL) as is chasing the phantom noise (give me flames over a squeak any day or my all time favorite "it just sounds odd - louder now that i got my new hearing aid and thought i better get you in"). Operators qualified to the eye balls but not capable of adding basic numbers or for that matter changing a frigging loo roll, finding places hidden in the ass ends of no were with zero sign-age + more are just some of the shit you get to deal with as a tech. I only took the job to get enough income as a sallery to get a mortgage, would rather gut pigs than go back to that game these days. Its a incredibly lonely existence, yeah you get a few common customers, but you go months between seeing your colleagues. So yeah i can more than get why most places find it really hard to recruit competent people that will do what it takes. Be3cause any one with the skills to be good in the tech game is already makeing a living doing something that pays more or is nicer hours :-)

Click to expand...

Its not a warranty issue, we caused it. I would just prefer to have a skilled person maintain a 5 month old machine. It certainly is not hard, and production was not stopped or delayed due to Haas' lack of reasonable response. They would also do it faster than I due to being more skilled, which would minimize down time.

I stripped the belts on our ST-30 twice, both times was my fault not the machine are design, I simply fucked up.

In my opinion, its much better to have the belts let go than to have something much more expensive get screwed up when you do something stupid like...forgetting to go back to G01 and plowing a tool neck deep into the part at full G00.

Changing the belts on the ST really is simple OP, no rocket science to it what so ever.
Even if you have never done it before you could be back up and running by noon tomorrow.

Remove the Side panel behind door, no need to remove door.
Remove end panel.
Remove the guard around the back of the spindle.
Carefully remove the cover over the spindle encoder and then the encoder itself.
Use a scribe and score a mark on the assembly the motor is mounted to so you have a reference of were to adjust motor assembly back to.
Loosen the four bolts holding the motor assembly.
Loosen off on the jack bolts holding up on said assembly.
Its a tight fit but you can fish one belt off and out at a time through the assembly, you will see what I mean.
Reverse order and go back to work.

Order a replacement set of belts from Gates, you will need them sooner or later.

If I remember right, been a while. the belts are around $145 for the set of 3.
So, $145 + 3-4 hours of labor at real shop cost or pay the same amount for the belt plus $125 per hour with drive time included plus lost revenue for the machine being down almost two weeks.