Open source ventilator? Time for us to make it happen. - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by neilho View Post
    The latest is that the old Delco plant in Kokomo, Indiana will be used to make ventilators. And the company that's currently making them is being assisted by GM to ramp up production. The mfger, Ventec, is the one talking to the government. ....

    More to the point, the gov hasn't placed a purchase order because they say they don't know how much they'll cost. Sigh...
    Yes, GM has teamed up with a company that already makes these to ramp up production and help with floor space, personnel and engineering help.
    Strange that GM being called out as they are doing more and are ahead of any other automaker.
    Various pricing has been given to the government based on volume and time frame at zero profit. People in charge shit a brick at the cost.

    Does not matter which plant you pick, everything has to ripped out and the building sterilized.
    I could not make ventilators in my shop.. Want a machine that pumps small amounts of carbide into your lungs?
    Clean and sterile environments are expensive and not an auto shop floor.

    I hate to say it but I smell politics and a upcoming election. Scapegoats will be needed.
    Bob

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  3. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Yes, GM has teamed up with a company that already makes these to ramp up production and help with floor space, personnel and engineering help.
    Strange that GM being called out as they are doing more and are ahead of any other automaker.
    Various pricing has been given to the government based on volume and time frame at zero profit. People in charge shit a brick at the cost.

    Does not matter which plant you pick, everything has to ripped out and the building sterilized.
    I could not make ventilators in my shop.. Want a machine that pumps small amounts of carbide into your lungs?
    Clean and sterile environments are expensive and not an auto shop floor.

    I hate to say it but I smell politics and a upcoming election. Scapegoats will be needed.
    Bob
    I'm pretty impressed with what Ford was able to pump out in a short period of time to the hospitals. I thought it was good use of their resources, to build something that didn't need clean room environments to get it out. They are also building a positive pressure respirator I believe, for the clinical staff. Again, something entirely within their capacity.

    Why are we looking to GM to build vents?

    We'd be better off looking to Boeing, or any one of the aerospace manufacturers who already have extensive large clean room manufacturing capacity. Hell, even NASA likely has better resources. Never been in a GM facility that I would want making medical devices. Even the ones that do electrical work.

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  5. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Yes, GM has teamed up with a company that already makes these to ramp up production and help with floor space, personnel and engineering help.
    Strange that GM being called out as they are doing more and are ahead of any other automaker.
    Various pricing has been given to the government based on volume and time frame at zero profit. People in charge shit a brick at the cost.
    And these are portable ventilators at $18K a pop, vs $50K for the stationary models. Sounds like FEMA already selected the cheapest thing they could find and are still waffling. "Brownie" has competition.

    No wonder Ventec is waiting for a PO.

    I could not make ventilators in my shop.. Want a machine that pumps small amounts of carbide into your lungs?
    Clean and sterile environments are expensive and not an auto shop floor.

    I hate to say it but I smell politics and a upcoming election. Scapegoats will be needed.
    Bob
    If I needed a ventilator and had to choose between inhaling carbide and not inhaling, I'd take the carbide, Bob. (Sorry, couldn't resist.)

    You got it. Politics and the stock market. A healthy populace is distant third, if that.

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  7. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanermo View Post
    Once the US popula takes the thing seriously....
    There's your flaw. The population gets scared when it sees 250,000 cases. But unfortunately, by the time you see 250,000 cases there are really 500,000 cases and more on the way. You have to nail it before people get scared.

    You can see how well that worked in this very thread.

    But one good thing at least, I don't have to hear how them lying commies are just trying to scare us into hurting ourselves economically with their phony data and all.

    Now I'll get to hear how the phony data was under-reported, so they could clandestinely lure us into a false sense of security.

    Devious, them commies. Getcha coming or getcha going but either way it's always their fault.

  8. #45
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    As I said I think anyone could make ventilators.
    Only a few critical internal parts transport gas, and any part can be easily cleaned via std parts finishing processes.

    Farm it out for cleaning, and it gets done, if you don´t feel comfortable.
    Scuba valves are machined, yes ?

    I´ve been diving 30 years (divemaster, 300+ dives) all over the world with machined valves, and the pressure (8 bars at 70 metres (roatan wreck)) is vastly higher than a typical ventilator only very slightly over 1 bar.

    Metal particles (not dissolved) are not especially dangerous, so some tiny nano-particles in some components would not actually hurt a person.
    Ex lead, cobalt, cadmium etc. but we don´t typically machine them.

    I am happy to scuba dive, as are millions of persons, with machined valves.
    Likewise, machined ventilator valves would not be a safety hazad of any real concern.

    Excess regulation, lawyering, insurance scams and scare mongering has caused too much fear and doubt in making such parts.
    Imho.

  9. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanermo View Post
    ...
    Excess regulation, lawyering, insurance scams and scare mongering has caused too much fear and doubt in making such parts.
    Imho.
    Given how easy it is to do with a very great need, how many of these machines or parts for them are you or your partners producing per day?

    Few will machine cobalt directly but if you use carbide or many high speed steels there is cobalt in your coolant, particularly if you use water based due to leaching.
    Making masks easy too but this is clean room stuff, Bunny suits, multiple doors.
    Some of the best at this end may be semi-conductor makers.
    What happens when you make a few thousand parts under not tight control and one of your workers tests positive for this or god forbid something else?

    There are people who know how to do this, we need to ramp them up.
    Bob

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    May have been mentioned elsewhere, but motor-powered squeezers for manual ventilators are and easy build. Pace, dwell, and volume are easily managed with a varispeed motor and adjustable lever mechanism. No microprocessor required, and all the air-handling bits are pre-made, assuming a stock of manual devices.

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  12. #48
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    In Seattle we're in Ventec's backyard so maybe we get more info on the GM deal than the rest of the country.

    It urns out there is one critical part on their ventilator that is only made in India. That plant in India was shut down because of the virus. GM folks hopped a plane to India to see what could be done. They got the plant up and running again. How many manufacturers have the clout of GM?

    Trump apparent;y turned down the price Ventec/GM wanted to charge. That was one morning. Maybe because of public outcry on lack of ventilators that same afternoon he had a change of heart and invoked his war powers act. No doubt he'll claim credit for the whole Ventec/GM deal.

    Rest assured, as Dr Birx says Trump has the ability to analyze and integrate data.

  13. #49
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    Why do people think GM is any comparison to what it was in WWII?
    Not the same manufacturing giant.
    We all bought import cars, how is Toyota and Honda steeping up to repay us?
    (They are)
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chip Chester View Post
    May have been mentioned elsewhere, but motor-powered squeezers for manual ventilators are and easy build. Pace, dwell, and volume are easily managed with a varispeed motor and adjustable lever mechanism. No microprocessor required, and all the air-handling bits are pre-made, assuming a stock of manual devices.
    There is a Dr. here that has made some vents(for last resort) with an off the shelf solenoid and a lamp timer. Add some tubing and fittings, total cost is about $100/ea.

    Dt

  15. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chip Chester View Post
    May have been mentioned elsewhere, but motor-powered squeezers for manual ventilators are and easy build. Pace, dwell, and volume are easily managed with a varispeed motor and adjustable lever mechanism. No microprocessor required, and all the air-handling bits are pre-made, assuming a stock of manual devices.
    I have been working with three other individuals to make one of the ambu (sp?) bag type ventilators/resuscitators. As you noted - pretty easy build but we ARE using a microprocessor to control it along with a little 12v motor. It was one of the open source ideas - not our own design. Even though it appears that we are well past the critical stage in this covid pandemic we think it may have applications to paramedics etc.

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  17. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Miranda View Post
    I have been working with three other individuals to make one of the ambu (sp?) bag type ventilators/resuscitators. As you noted - pretty easy build but we ARE using a microprocessor to control it along with a little 12v motor. It was one of the open source ideas - not our own design. Even though it appears that we are well past the critical stage in this covid pandemic we think it may have applications to paramedics etc.
    I walked away from the group I was working with. It became more important to keep getting funding than actually making a product.

    The ambubag vents are a great idea, and would really make a huge difference for a cheap on ambulance option, or in the third world.

    Keep up the good work Joe.


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