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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    I recently lost somewhat of a friend (long story) due to a shop accident. Osha is investigating now (might be done dunno) what happened. They might be a PITA, but I agree with Bob, someone needs to regulate worker safety. There will always be horror stories about big fines and stuff.... I think the reason they straight up fine you is because that is (typically) where it hurts the most and makes the most impact- your wallet!
    They have partially finished the investigation, workplace looking at a 21k fine.


    Quote Originally Posted by danil View Post
    OSHA my way.

    OSHA is in place to protect our workforce. I would substitute mandatory education and implementation of safety program in lieu of a fine for these first offenses(non-accident oriented visits). Would this not improve safety in a more meaningful and tangible way for these employees? Seems better than taking 3,000 out of the available funds to improve the workfork.
    I don't know. He is dead and gone now. Not that a fine helps his family by any means, but maybe it will make them (the factory) think twice about saving $50 on a lockout tagout kit, or hiring unskilled workers and dumping them on the floor with unsatisfactory training, or..??... I understand an accident is an accident, but could have it been prevented? I don't know, doubt anyone will.

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    I worked for a company that actually had a business owner fire someone AFTER they reported him to osha because he screwed them over on a raise or something. He admitted it in court.

    Then he sold the company.

    Osha stopped in for a surprise follow up inspection. You should have seen her face change when I told her that I wanted to work with her to see that we were compliant. Her attitude changed completely. We started with the paperwork...which of course there was none. By the end of the visit I had a two page list of things to correct. By the next day, I had lockout tagout in place. Within a week, all of the major infractions had been completed. Within a month, everything on the list was done.

    She could have shut us down...frankly, with some of the habits that were established, she should have shut us down. We ended up with a $3,000 fine for three days of inspections.

    I'm sure it has went back downhill since, but how you present yourself and your business has a lot to do with how you get treated by them.

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  4. #63
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    You can git away with firing someone for turning you in to OSHA?

    This person was actually expecting this to somehow be a positive in his pocket - should the company see $100K in fines or shut down?

    The 3 day waiting period should be applied to many aspects of life.
    Not necessarily the one that it IS applied to tho....



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    James 1:19
    Ox

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  6. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    You can git away with firing someone for turning you in to OSHA?

    This person was actually expecting this to somehow be a positive in his pocket - should the company see $100K in fines or shut down?

    The 3 day waiting period should be applied to many aspects of life.
    Not necessarily the one that it IS applied to tho....



    -------------------------

    James 1:19
    Ox
    What's the saying...don't let your mouth write a check your ass can't cash?

    I'm quite sure his ass was a little sore after that vocal session.

    So...I guess he got away with it, in that he can say "I fired that little shit...then paid him a years salary as a severance package".

    It wasn't just his admitting that he fired him because he called OSHA, it was his response to the judge asking "And what will you tell someone that calls asking for references on this former employee".

    This was a guy that didn't have kids of his own. A great guy though...he put his lawyers kids through college. lol

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    I would be interested in swapping dialog with another shop owner faced with negotiating settlement and preparing a case for trial. Please, only shop owners or designated safety officers. Can reach me by email from my company web site linked on my profile.

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    Hi Folks, first post here, thanks for the great site and excellent info.

    I'm really jumping into a hornet's nest here, and I know this is a slightly old post - but the amount of disinformation in this thread really got my blood pressure up, and I felt I had to respond - sorry about that --->end of preamble.

    I’m not OSHA, I don’t work for OSHA, I don’t have any relatives that work for OSHA. I know nothing about their inner workings. But I know that five minutes of reading online can answer many of these questions definitively in less time than it took many of you to complain about them.

    1. OSHA is not “self-funded.” They don’t give out fines to raise money. They don’t. Stop saying it.
    2. Less than 10 employees – you’re not off the hook. At all. You don’t have to file reports, maybe. The other stuff still applies.

    I have worked in manufacturing and engineering for 20 years. I decided long ago it would not do any harm to download the OSHA rules and read them and understand them. You know what I found?

    They’re not that hard to follow.

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    yes it is hard to follow, because the retards they have working there are handed a clipboard and sent out into the world with no other purpose than to fuck with people.

    It is hard to follow when the useless sons of bitches just make shit up as they go along.

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    Quote Originally Posted by safetypb View Post
    ...1. OSHA is not “self-funded.” They don’t give out fines to raise money. They don’t. Stop saying it.
    That may or may not be correct. There are State OSHA's and there are the Feds. I have never dealt with the Feds- all my inspections and dealings have been with the State agencies.

    There is an easy way to tell where the money goes. Look at the check.

    If it's made out to OSHA, they keep the money. If the check is made out to the Treasury, it goes into the general fund. State or Federal, doesn't matter.

    All these agencies have their own accounts that are not part of the budgeting process. Even though they get an appropriation from the Legislature, there is additional money that isn't in there.

    Look at the check. That's who gets the money.

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    Mild,state govt has introduced penalties here for culpable workplace fatality that send managers and directors to jail for 2 years,plus massive fines....Whether the WHS or the state revenue recieve penalties payments,a great deal of notice is taken by treasuries of the potential for revenue raising,and a requirement to raise a certain amount for the cost involved...Most states here ,penalties and fines are often #2 or #3 in consolidated revenue totals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by safetypb View Post
    Hi Folks, first post here, thanks for the great site and excellent info.

    I'm really jumping into a hornet's nest here, and I know this is a slightly old post - but the amount of disinformation in this thread really got my blood pressure up, and I felt I had to respond - sorry about that --->end of preamble.

    I’m not OSHA, I don’t work for OSHA, I don’t have any relatives that work for OSHA. I know nothing about their inner workings. But I know that five minutes of reading online can answer many of these questions definitively in less time than it took many of you to complain about them.

    1. OSHA is not “self-funded.” They don’t give out fines to raise money. They don’t. Stop saying it.
    2. Less than 10 employees – you’re not off the hook. At all. You don’t have to file reports, maybe. The other stuff still applies.

    I have worked in manufacturing and engineering for 20 years. I decided long ago it would not do any harm to download the OSHA rules and read them and understand them. You know what I found?

    They’re not that hard to follow.
    Odd that someone would log on here just to defend a federal bureaucracy.

    Very odd behavior indeed.....

    What are your thoughts on the I.R.S. ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by safetypb View Post
    They’re not that hard to follow.
    They are that hard to follow. If I chose to follow them, I would have to remove every machine in my shop except for one, per OSHA at a previous work place.

    Thanks... but no.

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    Odd that someone would log on here just to defend a federal bureaucracy.

    Very odd behavior indeed.....

    What are your thoughts on the I.R.S. ?
    Yes, and I would have liked to hear him explain why the OSHA people are always so nasty when they visit (or should I say "descend" on an employer (victim). LOL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Newman109 View Post
    Yes, and I would have liked to hear him explain why the OSHA people are always so nasty when they visit (or should I say "descend" on an employer (victim). LOL.

    Oh come on.....

    What on Earth would make an OSHA inspector happy to go about their day?

    I am sure that Quincy has (had?) a much better time at work than these guys!


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    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    I haven't read through this entire thread and am not going to but there seems to be a lot of disinformation. What I will say is that OSHA does not apply to the self employed, therefore if you bring in "self employed" workers you have circumvented the system. Obviously you must pay them as a vendor and not employee. This is how many roofing contractors get around having fall protection. Conveniently OSHA does don't apply to government agencies. So next time you see a state employee working out of a backhoe bucket without fall protection don't bother calling OSHA because government agencies answer to no one.

    Application of OSHA requirements to self-employed construction workers. | Occupational Safety and Health Administration

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    My wife can’t stand speeders or litterbugs. That doesn’t mean she loves the police.

    OSHA hires the occasional moron just like anybody else. Nobody's perfect, and in all likelihood, the guy doing the inspection earns less than you do. He's a gov't. worker.

    Here's a link:

    Penalties | Occupational Safety and Health Administration

    Scroll down to the last point where it says “Civil penalties owed under this Act shall be paid to the Secretary for deposit into the Treasury of the United States.”

    That does not seem unclear or ambiguous at all. Not new, either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by safetypb View Post
    My wife can’t stand speeders or litterbugs. That doesn’t mean she loves the police.

    OSHA hires the occasional moron just like anybody else. Nobody's perfect, and in all likelihood, the guy doing the inspection earns less than you do. He's a gov't. worker.

    Here's a link:

    Penalties | Occupational Safety and Health Administration

    Scroll down to the last point where it says “Civil penalties owed under this Act shall be paid to the Secretary for deposit into the Treasury of the United States.”

    That does not seem unclear or ambiguous at all. Not new, either.
    What you say is true for Fed OSHA fines. There is also a State OSHA in most states.

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    True enough for most public sector folks - federal OSHA does not apply. But, for instance, in Ohio, we have the hilariously named Perrp = Public Employee Risk Reduction Program. Its requirements mirror those of the Federal OSHA. It is part of the Ohio BWC. So in the end – the city workers must follow the OSHA rules, they’re just not administered by the Department of Labor.

    When I said the rules aren’t that hard to follow – what I meant was – it’s not hard to understand what is required. It may in fact be difficult or impossible to make old machines meet today’s standards. That doesn’t mean you just get to keep running that unguarded press all day long. No. It means that the solution exists, albeit at some cost and some time and some loss of production. Price of doing business.

    If you genuinely have a factory-made machine of recent vintage that literally cannot be made safe enough for OSHA due to “unclear” rules – I’d love to know what it is.

    Threads like these are EXACTLY why the clipboard guy is grumpy.

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  26. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by safetypb View Post

    Threads like these are EXACTLY why the clipboard guy is grumpy.
    So, you blame the victims of the power tripping thugs?

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    No, I blame power tripping thugs for being power tripping thugs.

    I blame indifferent employers for OSHA violations. Two different animals.

    Yours is the kind of argument that blames cops for speed traps. Don't speed. It's that simple.

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    Trolling the "Holster Sniffer"

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