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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by cnctoolcat View Post
    American’s problem is envy.

    We’re all green with it, trying to live the life we see others living.

    We’re not happy with what we have.

    We’re spoiled like a bunch of babies.

    A neighbor, a co-worker, a brother-in-law, parents of the kid’s friends, a country club buddy…. It seems everybody has a bigger house, a newer SUV, go on more vacations, blah, blah, blah!

    Even the bums and takers in America try to outdo the other bums and takers, with more tattoos, a bigger 4x4, more kids, better drugs, …whatever it may be.

    We Americans have it pretty damn good, we’re just too stupid to realize it.
    Couldn't agree more!

    People talk about how life was so much better - and I think it was better because people were thankful.

    A good elderly friend of mine (he is 85 now) is a retired toolmaker. A brilliant machinist. He supported his family working with one job - his, and lived, and still lives comfortably.

    That said - the family ever only owned 1 car. He still lives in the first house he ever owned - a 1,100 square foot house that raised 4 kids. The house is clean and friendly, but dated. This man cut the family's hair, fixed his own car, did all the home renovations himself, rarely went out for dinner, and traveled once a year for a week vacation.

    I think wage stagnation is real, but people aren't happy unless they have 3 fully loaded cars in the driveway, a brand new iPhone every 2 years, gold plated dinnerware, a subscription to every streaming service, and 2 yearly vacations all over the world so they can make all their friends jealous on Instagram. And even then they aren't happy.

    America (and Canada) have a consumption problem.

  2. #42
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    Americans have been taught for the last 40 years that the "economy" (aka consumption) is the almighty most important thing ever. We took one year off of rampant consumerism and it has completely changed the economy.

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  4. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by empwoer View Post
    hard to blame this on commies seeing as how this is caused by the govt.
    It was a tongue-in-cheek post aimed toward the folks who always bring up how "they did it back then, just takes a bit of elbow grease and will", when the situation is very different today.

  5. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mebfab View Post
    Well, it didnt take long to blame a political party......

    On to an actual question and observation.

    28 years ago I worked at a grocery store. they paid me $8 an hour. At the time a new f150 was .... $12K? Hamburg was $1lb. My health insurance with low deductible was $100 month. Rent was $450? Fast forward..... That store still pays $8 an hour. That truck is $50k? Hamburg is $5lb, insurance with high deductible for same age is $600? Same apartment is $1350. My friend with 200 head of cattle says he isnt getting much more for them now then he was then. WHERE IS THE MONEY GOING? What is the cost of a bushel of wheat vs box of cereal?

    Are the poor working $8 an hour jobs getting food stamps, medicaid, WIC etc? We are subsidizing the $8 an hour worker with our taxes while large companies are keeping the gains and forming ever larger monopolies. At $10 an hour its makes economic sense to stay home and watch your own kids and go broke slowly even if you dont get enhanced unemployment (you may still get WIC, food stamps, medicaid), rather then go to work and spend more then you make on transportation and child care. Now some of you are saying cut it all off and make them work (very christian of you, starving children!) but how about we kick up and not down. How about we victimize the CEO (and hedge funds, stock holders, etc)raking in millions while paying pennies to workers and even less % of taxes then we do, while sending jobs oversees and buying congressmen with his spare change.

    I feel bad for the small business. They cant absorb the price increase in goods or labor. They have to pass it on.
    I bet if you had to work on the f150 from the 90's it would be much easier than working on one today. Point I am going to make is if they made the trucks exactly the same today as they did in the early 90's it would cost more but not nearly as much as the new ones today.


    BTW anti lock breaks really really suck.

  6. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    It's the shock increase in insurance premiums over the last two days due to the Chemtool fire.

    [I think I'm joking, but maybe not ]
    My cost of water will probably go up because of the fire.

  7. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawnrs View Post
    I bet if you had to work on the f150 from the 90's it would be much easier than working on one today. Point I am going to make is if they made the trucks exactly the same today as they did in the early 90's it would cost more but not nearly as much as the new ones today.


    BTW anti lock breaks really really suck.
    Auto MFGs stuff new vehicles with electronics to drive up the purchase price. Their gross revenue would fall off a cliff if they offered stripped down vehicles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AJ H View Post
    Was talking to a guy that sells Korean & Taiwanese machines (I know him well outside of this relationship so I know he isn't blowing smoke up my ass) he said containers have gone from about 2K to about 10K to ship.
    Just priced a 40' flat rack about a month ago, it was about the same as usual. For a short time prices were way down, actually, but back to normal now. That may have been a temporary thing, or distorted by local conditions.

    Have to admit though, we ship from the US to China, so traffic may be way down due to those super-effective tariffs

    American’s problem is envy.

    We’re all green with it, trying to live the life we see others living.

    We’re not happy with what we have.

    We’re spoiled like a bunch of babies.
    Good to see someone still channelling George W

    Maybe you're right, seems like I don't know anything about 'murricans, after watching this virus fuckupbeyondbelief, but I hope not.

    I do know that, looking at realworld numbers, I could not make it today the way I did forty-fifty years ago. Food has inflated some but it's housing that's the killer ... and also way fewer opportunities. Maybe can buy an okay house in Wisconsin for $200,000 but where I grew up, what was 50 is now a million at least. If Wisconsin really is that cheap, one of these days you guys are going to hate people from the west coast just like Oregonians hate Californians now. And then your house prices will skyrocket too Even up here in Bumfuck Wa, a cheapy starter condo is $400,000. Many many many people living in trailers. I'm sure that some grape picker, somewhere, has struggled his way out of poverty but overall, it's just a hell of a lot harder than it was fifty years ago. The outlook for many people is static or even negative.

    I don't see that as envy, just as reality for many people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AJ H View Post
    Auto MFGs stuff new vehicles with electronics to drive up the purchase price. Their gross revenue would fall off a cliff if they offered stripped down vehicles.
    Many farmers are fighting for the right to repair their own equipment. Read up on "right to repair" legislation. Most companies are fighting to make sure the owner of the product cannot fix it themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TeachMePlease View Post
    That may be MSRP... But I haven't seen one sell for anywhere near that. This link shows dealer inventory near me, and there's not one listed for less than $40K... https://shop.ford.com/inventory/f150...ect-bb-si-f150
    I bought one last august, f-150 2x4 8' bed, plain cab, crank winders.
    $27.5k

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gobo View Post
    Many farmers are fighting for the right to repair their own equipment. Read up on "right to repair" legislation. Most companies are fighting to make sure the owner of the product cannot fix it themselves.
    Having a small farm I'm pretty familiar with that. Most of our stuff isn't new enough to fall into that but some is. The biggest effect on me is the all mechanical 30 year old tractors are drawing a big interest from big farms as they say "fuck you" to the dealerships "I'll just restore a 4440 instead"

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    UBER inflation? Don't know if it applies to scrap metal.

    So yesterday a guy who with an old pickup and time on his hands is playing scrapper and updates me on the local "scrap yard wars".

    Monday a yard which is pretty popular started paying $260.00 a ton for scrap steel, or what they tell me is referred to as "sheet iron".

    Yesterday a competing yard, posted on their brand new digital billboard they are paying $290.00.

    So, I guess this falls into the supply and demand category, old beater barely running pickups are quickly becoming an extinct items. Value as scrap--versus--value as a tool to gather scrap? (an told a complete vehicle pays a premium for scrap.) The yard...rumor control has it...is paid $400. a ton for the scrap it pays $290. for. Pretty thin margins it would seem but maybe someone else knows how the scrap game is played.

    A few weeks ago watched a shop kick multiple thousands $$$$ of bar stock, drops, and in process work that got cancelled into the scrap yards containers. The effort of providing traceability was one factor, the other was a big flock you to the company who cancelled a project.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cnctoolcat View Post
    Japan and China had similar rises to manufacturing prominence, largely due to the American market.

    However, Japan couldn’t be more different than China. Japan has limited resources, limited population, limited land...and will forever be hand-stringed by their limitations.

    China has no limitations of resources, people, or land. And thus the ability to keep moving up the economic ladder higher than Japan ever could.

    China will overpower the world with their manufacturing size, just like an army of ants moving an elephant.

    IMO though, China will never match the Japanese intelligence and capability, because of cultural differences between the two nations.

    And don’t forget, the Japanese have established themselves as world-leaders in high technology and advanced manufacturing.

    Just like with the Internet powerhouse companies, he who gets there first and establishes dominance in the market becomes almost impossible to dethrone.

    There will always be only one Mazak, Okuma, Fanuc, Honda, Toyota, Mitutoyo, Canon, Nikon, Sony...
    I agree with most of your post but have to chuckle at the last line. Here today, gone tomorrow. I'm heading down to buy a new Pontiac now and stop at Montgomery Wards on the way home.

  17. #53
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    Prices rise and always will.
    Stopped by my old house while taking the dog out and met the new owner and family who were awesome friendly to a stranger.
    Nice time of old remembrances and got to talking. Dad built the house for $35,000 plus 6K for the lot.
    New owner paid $350,000 and happy with that price.
    DOW in 1978? Duh 3000 in a stereo system worth what now if that in money the market? Did it sound that good or get me laid enough?
    Bob

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  19. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by bradleyk View Post
    I am merely stating to use facts and not generalized exaggerations.
    At least you admit that your $8/hr "fact" was from three years ago and not today.
    Also, you said a $12,000 truck is now $50,000. That is not an apples-to-apples comparison. Just because it's difficult to find a base model truck doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Inflation on vehicles has gone up only slightly more than wages. If they still made vehicles exactly the same as in 1993 I would argue that the inflation would be right in line with the percentage of wage increase. Consider the following advancements since 1993:
    1. All vehicles have multiple airbags
    2. All vehicles have anti-lock brakes
    3. All vehicles have some type of electronic stability control.
    4. All vehicles have rear-view cameras (I don't think it's even an option anymore).
    5. Gas mileage and horsepower have both increased with lower emissions.
    6. Most vehicles get air conditioning on base models
    7. Most vehicles get power windows on base models.

    The list could go on.... bottom line, vehicles are cleaner, safer, and more powerful now compared to 1993. There's certainly a cost for that above standard inflation that will get passed on to the consumer. Vehicles are not a good example of inflation or any kind of predatory pricing to the lower class. The profit margin on new vehicles is extremely low compared to grab-and-go items at any convenience store.

    It's the day-to-day stuff in poor neighborhoods that keep poor people poor. Grocery items, high interest rates on the corner car lot, high insurance costs, predatory lending, etc... But, it's also priority on what one decides to spend money on. It's not about how much one makes, but how much one spends. That takes training and intervention (maybe at the cost of taxpayers), not necessarily government handouts without consequence.
    I totally agree with the last part of your post. It's called a poverty mentality. Many people are terrible with money.
    I've used the example before of a friend of mine who has been bankrupt twice. He rode out to my cottage with me one day and I told him that I needed to stop at the hardware and pick up a bolt for my mower. I spent 39 cents on a bold and he spent about ten bucks on a cool little throwaway flashlight, a bottle of coke and some chips and candy.
    He's now diabetic from poor eating habits and as close to broke as anyone I know.

    I believe that most people who tell you that the reason that they have money problems is that they don't make enough, if they made double their money problems would become more than double because of bad money choices.

    But it also helps a lot to make a living wage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big B View Post
    I totally agree with the last part of your post. It's called a poverty mentality. Many people are terrible with money.
    I've used the example before of a friend of mine who has been bankrupt twice. He rode out to my cottage with me one day and I told him that I needed to stop at the hardware and pick up a bolt for my mower. I spent 39 cents on a bold and he spent about ten bucks on a cool little throwaway flashlight, a bottle of coke and some chips and candy.
    He's now diabetic from poor eating habits and as close to broke as anyone I know.

    I believe that most people who tell you that the reason that they have money problems is that they don't make enough, if they made double their money problems would become more than double because of bad money choices.

    But it also helps a lot to make a living wage.

    Conversely, it costs money to be poor.

    When you're living paycheck to paycheck, you can't buy the bulk pack of toilet paper where each roll is $.50, you buy the 4 pack, where each roll is $1.25. You can't buy the $200 Red Wing boots that last for 5 years, you buy the $80 boots that only last a year, because they're what you can afford that day. Can't afford to see a dentist for that tooth pain, you only go when the tooth is falling out. Can't pay for a crown, so you pay the $80 for an extraction instead. Can't see a doctor for the random pain in your side, you end up in the ER with appendicitis instead. Etc etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AJ H View Post
    Auto MFGs stuff new vehicles with electronics to drive up the purchase price. Their gross revenue would fall off a cliff if they offered stripped down vehicles.

    I think more people would buy the stripped down vehicle because some of us really do not want all the options they offer.

  22. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeachMePlease View Post
    Conversely, it costs money to be poor.

    When you're living paycheck to paycheck, you can't buy the bulk pack of toilet paper where each roll is $.50, you buy the 4 pack, where each roll is $1.25. You can't buy the $200 Red Wing boots that last for 5 years, you buy the $80 boots that only last a year, because they're what you can afford that day. Can't afford to see a dentist for that tooth pain, you only go when the tooth is falling out. Can't pay for a crown, so you pay the $80 for an extraction instead. Can't see a doctor for the random pain in your side, you end up in the ER with appendicitis instead. Etc etc.
    It is easier to go to McDonalds and pay $30 for dinner vs going to the grocery store and spending $10-$15 to make dinner. It is easier to go to the vending machine and purchase that soft drink for $2.0-$2.50 vs buying the 12 or 24 pack for a couple dollars more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawnrs View Post
    It is easier to go to McDonalds and pay $30 for dinner vs going to the grocery store and spending $10-$15 to make dinner. It is easier to go to the vending machine and purchase that soft drink for $2.0-$2.50 vs buying the 12 or 24 pack for a couple dollars more.

    It's cheaper to go to McDonald's and buy 4 cheeseburgers for 2 people ($1.60 on $.39 Cheeseburger day) than to go to the grocery store and buy carrots, onions, ground beef, and a package of hamburger helper for 2 people.

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    ^ Easy to tell who's lived in the real world around here Put yourself through school, didja, Teach ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big B View Post

    But it also helps a lot to make a living wage.
    Not if you don't work at making a living wage, Mcdonalds jobs are entry level,
    and require breathing and pulse.
    Go to night school, learn a trade while working at minimum wage, pull yourself up, instead of filling out protest signs.

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