OT(?) Who gets to go back to work, and when? One perspective from Italy - Page 4
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  1. #61
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    Talking about the new normal the H1N1 virus is just a modern mutation of the Spanish flu.
    Bil lD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteM View Post
    Don't think anyone thought just a slow burn was the exit strategy. First step was always testing. One test for the virus to pull people out of circulation. Another test for antibodies to let 'em get back to work (assuming, as current data suggests, that confers immunity). Plus ramping up the availability of PPE, better treatment protocols, medicines, ventilators, ICU staff, etc. to cut the mortality rate while we work on a vaccine. All that pretty much known 90 days ago, even before it was just a liberal "hoax" to make the President look bad or no big deal - down to near zero in a couple days.

    Due to the US' criminally late start, that testing still hasn't been ramped up. We'll get there; but not until many unnecessarily die. Plus the economic hit.

    Meanwhile our President is busy seeing to it that anyone who reveals his numerous screw ups is fired. The battleship Captain who skipped his chain of command because nothing much was happening (his immediate superior was on the ship, apparently doing nothing) in order to save his men was fired for not following protocol. Our Inspector General who took a whistleblower complaint up the chain of command on the you-won't-get-aid-until-you-smear-Biden Ukraine thing was just fired for following protocol. Sad times for our nation. Most every bearer of Trump screw-up news gets shot these days. Someone like Fauci, too desperately needed to be fired, just gets death threats.
    “Meanwhile“......

    That did not take long.

  3. #63
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    My wife and I (both lifelong republicans) have a new game.
    Whenever we hear a politician on TV saying something incredibly stupid, we race to be the first to confirm a "R" in from of his name
    The donald seems to be betting his future on Chloroquine. If that comes up lemons, he's not getting reelected.

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  5. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by NRDock View Post
    My wife and I (both lifelong republicans) have a new game.
    Whenever we hear a politician on TV saying something incredibly stupid, we race to be the first to confirm a "R" in from of his name
    The donald seems to be betting his future on Chloroquine. If that comes up lemons, he's not getting reelected.
    If it comforts you at all, what used to be "Republican" is long gone, what uses that label now are a mix of racist reactionaries and wanna-be dictators. I hope you and your spouse can help to reestablish a "Rational-Republican" party - Conservative values based on sound fiscal policy, opportunity to work and advance one's self and family, and a respect for law and legal structures and the military.

    What's so odd is that djt hews to none of that. No respect for law, no sound funding plans, and certainly no respect for the military (except for show). How anyone could vote for him after his treatment of McCain, the Vindman twins, and the Gold-Star parents is beyond me.

    We live in distorted times, it's important that we find the cause of this madness and counter it. It starts with removing djt and Moscow Mitch this November.

  6. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Oh really ? you want to toss your version of history up here so I can slap it down with facts ?

    History?





    SmartNews Keeping you current

    Officials Pinpoint First COVID-19 Case in United States

    The mostly mysterious pathogen is known to pass from person to person, causing respiratory illness

    Coronaviruses, like the newly identified Wuhan coronavirus, are so named for their halo- or crown-like appearance. (Public Domain) By Katherine J. Wu
    smithsonianmag.com
    January 22, 2020


    A mysterious respiratory virus that has infected hundreds in China has now officially made landfall in the United States, bringing the total number of countries afflicted by the newly described Wuhan coronavirus up to at least six.

    For now, the Center for Disease Control has declared the immediate health risk the virus poses to the American public to be low. The infected patient, a man from Washington state who recently returned home from a trip to Wuhan, China, began experiencing symptoms last week, and was quickly hospitalized. He remains in isolation at Providence Regional Medical Center in Everett, Washington, reports Merrit Kennedy for NPR.
    The outbreak began in the city of Wuhan, a bustling hub home to about 11 million. Chinese officials announced they would be shutting down transportation in and out of city beginning Thursday, report Amy Qin and Vivian Wang for the New York Times. But the virus’ spread to the United States—a cross-continental spillover that also occurred with SARS, another form of coronavirus, in 2003—has sparked concern from officials around the world.

    ________________________

    It seems so long ago that calls of Xenophobe were being made over prohibiting flights from China.

  7. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by EPAIII View Post
    I have been wondering just how this new virus compared to the ordinary, yearly bouts of the flu we have had with us for generations. Are those really the numbers?
    One can page back through the years on this CDC site.
    National Center for Health Statistics Mortality Surveillance System

    The numbers are 20K to 80K per season NATIONALLY depending on how you count

    State data is available by clicking the radio button. The year can be changed in the text box upper left.

  8. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post
    History?

    It seems so long ago that calls of Xenophobe were being made over prohibiting flights from China.
    Personally, I never called him a xenophobe. I call him an idiot.

    To be correct, flights were not cancelled until much later, what he did was close entry to passports. Like, duh. White guys can't catch this, huh ? Want to check the current world ratings ?

    Oh yeah, they asked the people with US passports to "please stay home." Like that did any good anywhere else (e.g. Florida).

    They didn't fucking test anybody -- 455 tests total in the whole country in the beginning of February -- and the CDC wouldn't even permit any testing for huge classes of people, with their own faulty tests, in tiny tiny quantities.

    So these much-vaunted "closings" were

    1) not

    2) didn't matter anyhow

    3) pointless and useless

    Xenophobe ? Maybe, but doesn't really matter. The part that counts is, idiot.

    While we're here, your article puts the lie to janco's mewling - published January 20 and already well-known that this virus passes from human to human. Thank you for pointing that out. Germany had the protocol for testing on the 13th.

    I do have to admit that you guys are strong and brave though. You didn't take any draconian measures to limit people's freedom to gather in large groups to spread disease ! We ain't afraid of no commy virus ! Overblown by the libtard press !

    Coronavirus Update (Live): 1,431,706 Cases and 82,080 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer

    450,000 people and shooting to the top with a bullet ! Manly ! Brave ! Let's not disturb our precious fragile economy for three whole weeks !

    Not when you can fuck it up for a year, anyhow. And pass a bunch of multi-trillion dollar giveaways to the guys who already have it all. Conservative ? In your dreams. Milland's link - 15% goes to small business for payroll and rent. 15 generous percent from your masters in the idiocracy.

    I'd rather have President Camacho, at least he has an IQ over 12 and a decent personality. Snappy dresser, too



    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post
    America contributed nearly 60 million dollars to the work of the World Health Organization. WHO

    What would be a reasonable expectation of return on that investment? Accuracy and timeliness of information ? Would one expect the Organization to actively gather health related information, or just report it like worldometer does? Should WHO provide useful guidance on protocol, restrictions, and resources?
    You're going to make me link to their video again ?! There's a Chinese saying that three times is enough, more than that don't bother, the other person is too stupid so here ya go, last time. Maybe try watching it this time.



    They did report and give suggestions. But you refused to listen because everyone else is just a bunch of commie rats trying to ruin our precious eeecoooooonomy !!!

    Get what you deserve.

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    America contributed nearly 60 million dollars to the work of the World Health Organization. WHO

    What would be a reasonable expectation of return on that investment? Accuracy and timeliness of information ? Would one expect the Organization to actively gather health related information, or just report it like worldometer does? Should WHO provide useful guidance on protocol, restrictions, and resources?

    What is WHO?

    On Jan 22 2020
    For now, the Center for Disease Control has declared the immediate health risk the virus poses to the American public to be low.

    My, that changed!

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Personally, I never called him a xenophobe. I call him an idiot.

    To be correct, flights were not cancelled until much later, what he did was close entry to passports. Like, duh. White guys can't catch this, huh ? Want to check the current world ratings ?
    When you "catch a flight", is it YOU or the aircraft that is being transported? No need to jump all over the particular words, it's the thought that counts) Actions too!

    To deny US citizens the freedom to return home is not an option. That's just creepy to even consider.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    Italy is finally seeing a flattening of new cases, and thought is being given to "restarting" the economy. One possibility being considered is to issue "passes" to those that show antibodies in their blood, or other clear signs of having had and recovered from the virus.

    In Italy, Going Back to Work May Depend on Having the Right Antibodies | Boston.com

    This has really interesting practical and philosophical consequences, and is perhaps not such a clear cut way to do things. But it is pragmatic, at least from a mechanistic standpoint.

    GATTACA, anyone? Gattaca - Wikipedia
    China, Norway and Holland are also easing restrictions in attempt to return to normalcy. I'm not aware of criteria.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post
    To deny US citizens the freedom to return home is not an option. That's just creepy to even consider.
    Agreed, not an option. So you put them in quarantine and if you have an IQ over ten, you ramp up tests and go after anyone who entered within the past month. Then you backtrace contacts and keep track vigilantly. Just Wuhan city had 1800 five man teams doing tracing. They did that all over the country.

    Yeah, it's a little difficult.

    But is it as difficult as having a hundred thousand people in intensive care ?

    Go ahead, sit on your butt and make excuses and call it the flu. The virus doesn't give a shit. It's one happy little bugger right now because a microscopic little particle that doesn't even have a brain has outsmarted you. Little virus that people even debate whether it's alive is kicking your ass in the war of wits.


    btw, you know, google can keep track of what cereal we ate for breakfast last Thursday, so would it be too much to ask them to help in an epidemic ? You know they have this information, if they wanted to not be evil for a change.

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  14. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldwrench View Post
    Their constant use of the term "the new normal" implies that after this we will have permanent government control of everything, and we are supposed to be OK with that.
    You already do. They just don't apply it to things that matter.

    I might just be OK with it if it involves testing at the borders à la Ellis Island (to use a politically incorrect but not unreasonable analogy) or additional security lines at an airport.
    Are you guys using thermometers yet ? They seem to be helpful and non-intrusive and fast. Would be simple to have them in the security-theater lines at the airports. During SARS and MERS and now again they did in Korea and China, it seemed to help.

    Regardless, a couple months from now the US economy will take off again. There's no fundamental economic problem other than the effect of everybody being made to close up shop.
    I never understood that either. The ecooooonomy !, like what, it's so fragile you can't take a short vacation ? Remember when big companies would close down for several weeks or a month in summer ? What happens if you break a leg skiing, the world ends ?

    JIT and highly-leveraged suck balls. MBA morons ....

    And why are they closing down basketball games and auto races ? test the participants and run them on teevee, at least get some revenue. Is that too difficult ?

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    Ok, everybody calm down and take a deep breath, (oh shit I typed that before I realized it sounds like a Setup for a terrible joke! Ok, So I won’t add the punch line... “if you can”).

    Going to toss in a few “by the way, while we were arguing” items...

    Fact is we as a species ( globally, all over the world, every country, etc), we do NOT take the “regular seasonal flu” NEARLY as seriously as we should, so saying COVID 19 “isn’t that much worse”....proves what exactly?

    anecdotal report from local news here in NYC; EMS is not transporting patients who “fail to resuscitate with CPR and defibrillator” to the ER, which they normally do. The coroner is called directly to the scene, as the ERs are already overburdened. that is running over 250? ( to my recollection, yes, I should post a link) a day. Normally the number is around 40. Those deaths are being listed as “cardiac arrest” and possibly never will be added to the CV “death count”

    just that comparison alone, aside from any other stats, should give you an idea of how much worse this is that the “regular flu”.

    Having said that, yes, by the way, we all die. And yes, it’s the weakest among us who fall to this and many other hits, but yea, this is serious.

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    PBS program: Frontline - China Undercover

    A special undercover report from China's secretive Xinjiang region. Investigating the Communist regime's mass imprisonment of Muslims, and its use and testing of sophisticated surveillance technology against the population.

    7am EST (Wed 08, 2020)

    Why is this program being aired now? I know why. As if it was already prepared.

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    jeeze rons.
    how many times can you paste the same thing?


    ps- apologies Ox...i didnt notice the forum before i replied.

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    iwananew10K, read about what a psyop is.

    from wikipedia:
    Psychological operations (PSYOP) are operations to convey selected information and indicators to audiences to influence their emotions, motives, and objective reasoning, and ultimately the behavior of governments, organizations, groups, and individuals.

  20. #78
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    Here's a general perspective on restarting the economy, and it also calls on a "certified recovered" identification: The 'certified recovered' from Covid-19 could lead the economic recovery - STAT

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    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post
    When you "catch a flight", is it YOU or the aircraft that is being transported? No need to jump all over the particular words, it's the thought that counts) Actions too!
    Speaking of thought that counts, here is an example of why I have to agree with Trumplestiltskin on the "fake news" subject. From worldometer :

    "On January 17, the CDC announced that 3 airports in the United States would begin screening incoming passengers from China: SFO, JFK, and LAX [6] Other 2 airports were added subsequently, and on January 28, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) announced that 15 additional U.S. airports (bringing the total to 20) would begin screening incoming travelers from China."

    If you were paying attention many travellers with an average IQ (no need to be a rocket scientist to figure this out) remarked that the "screening" consisted of asking "Have you been to Wuhan in the past two weeks ?"

    What is the obvious answer if you want to go home that day ? I mean c'mon, please, what the hell did they think this so-called "screening" was going to prove ? It was crap, nothing, just another bit of worthless theater, so that some day, someone could cover his ass. "But we did screening !" and people would believe it.

    Their screening was about as effective as Sally Rand's fans ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    Here's a general perspective on restarting the economy, and it also calls on a "certified recovered" identification: The 'certified recovered' from Covid-19 could lead the economic recovery - STAT
    I see this coming.
    Imagine bars and restaurants open to only those with a "Covid ID".
    Or job applications with the requirement that you have had and recovered from the virus.
    "Stay at home" rules that apply only to those that have not yet caught the virus.
    Bob


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