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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hillside Fab View Post
    That's essentially the hotdog cart argument.

    Believe whatever you want, but the reality is that at some point in owning a business, especially a new one, there are going to be huge demands on your time if you want to succeed.
    No I did not mention the hot dog cart argument.

    That is a consideration for some people.

    “ What is opportunity cost and example?
    When economists refer to the “opportunity cost” of a resource, they mean the value of the next-highest-valued alternative use of that resource. If, for example, you spend time and money going to a movie, you cannot spend that time at home reading a book, and you can't spend the money on something else.”

    No one is holding anyone back to do whatever except the person coming up with investment money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trueturning View Post
    No I did not mention the hot dog cart argument.

    That is a consideration for some people.

    “ What is opportunity cost and example?
    When economists refer to the “opportunity cost” of a resource, they mean the value of the next-highest-valued alternative use of that resource. If, for example, you spend time and money going to a movie, you cannot spend that time at home reading a book, and you can't spend the money on something else.”

    No one is holding anyone back to do whatever except the person coming up with investment money.
    The hotdog cart was what a gentleman from Houston, garyE i belive, told everyone who posted a starting a new shop thread on this site in the 2010-2012 range to buy, instead of starting a shop. Basically the textbook definition of opportunity cost.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hillside Fab View Post
    The hotdog cart was what a gentleman from Houston, garyE i belive, told everyone who posted a starting a new shop thread on this site in the 2010-2012 range to buy, instead of starting a shop.
    I would prefer if no one started a machining business.

    I would also love to see many hotdog carts competing for everyone's business.

    My wish of this happening will never come to fruition.

    The drive to become wealthy is a force that few can overcome, except for those that have tried and failed. Only then, they will polish my boots.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by otrlt View Post
    ...... Only then, they will polish my boots.
    Polish my boots, enough said. Now we know you.
    Been on the top and on the bottom. Seems you have not.

  5. Likes Greg White, camscan liked this post
  6. #105
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    Back on track.

    Here is what I don't get. We see all you guys not being able to find good employees, yet the OP , and others bend over to protect guys who crash machines, do drugs partime, and essentially wasting time. Do you think that gives you a good reputation? You may be desperate, but like many said here, give a lecture or they should be out the door.

    Two guys scrapping parts on a f-ing Mazak. It freakin does the math for you for certain tapers even! They wanted gravy and didn't give two shits and probably don't even know proper machining or Gcode to save their life.

    1) Clean and AC shop. No rotten egg smell. Get some mist collectors!
    2) Treat everyone like your equal and with respect. All people want to learn unless you already pissed them off.
    3) Keep up on the evolving industry in tooling and workholding or the good guys will laugh on your shop tour and you can't pay them enough to work for you.
    4) Don't promote ass kissers, promote the guys willing to tell you that you may be wrong on a cutting strategy etc. They will make you bank.

    You can't do this or unwilling. Retire.

  7. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Polish my boots, enough said. Now we know you.
    Been on the top and on the bottom. Seems you have not.
    Hello Bob,
    You are half right Bob, I've seen the bottom, and I've never looked back.

    Free advise to you Bob; never look back

  8. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Polish my boots, enough said. Now we know you.
    Been on the top and on the bottom. Seems you have not.
    Dont make to much fun of shoe shiners a good one will put in their pocket 60.00 an hour, all cash. and you get to chat up the ladies wearing those fancy mid thigh high boots. Sound like a hot dog stand.
    disclaimer my mothers family has been cobblers, boot builders, and now shoe repair, shoe shine, business since 1860s. i just didnt want to work that hard and i dont like dealing with that many people.but on to the scheduled programing.

  9. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by EndlessWaltz View Post
    Back on track.

    Here is what I don't get. We see all you guys not being able to find good employees, yet the OP , and others bend over to protect guys who crash machines, do drugs partime, and essentially wasting time. Do you think that gives you a good reputation? You may be desperate, but like many said here, give a lecture or they should be out the door.

    Two guys scrapping parts on a f-ing Mazak. It freakin does the math for you for certain tapers even! They wanted gravy and didn't give two shits and probably don't even know proper machining or Gcode to save their life.

    1) Clean and AC shop. No rotten egg smell. Get some mist collectors!
    2) Treat everyone like your equal and with respect. All people want to learn unless you already pissed them off.
    3) Keep up on the evolving industry in tooling and workholding or the good guys will laugh on your shop tour and you can't pay them enough to work for you.
    4) Don't promote ass kissers, promote the guys willing to tell you that you may be wrong on a cutting strategy etc. They will make you bank.

    You can't do this or unwilling. Retire.

    Since the OP still hasn't replied to everyone's simple question about HOW the hell they let 3 weeks of parts go running at full speed without any inspection checks, I assume they are busy doing something or other. The crux of the issue may be wages I dunno. Someone with the skill and experience to command a $25-35 wage likely isn't going to be the person scrapping by using a 37deg instead of a 45deg chamfer....

    Yea I mean I don't know the full details of the situation and who this employee is but if that happened here, I would be firing you. I fired someone for being late everyday and not having good reason to be late and not texting or calling. In fact, at one of my old shops they fired one of the Mill Leads for this exact reason that started this thread. He scrapped an entire batch of tong plates which are very large steel plates with a bunch of holes. Every single hole was offset by exactly 0.625" meaning that the person didn't properly offset the setup. NOR did that person bother doing a first article inspection which is just common sense.

    This wasn't the first time it happened, which is why we fired them. If it is the first time, maybe the person can learn from it and improve but if that person doesn't already have a good track record and a decent bit of company clout then they're getting the axe when they turn $60,000 worth of parts into scrap in a single day.

    If your company has situations like that, it is extremely important to resolve them either with training and education or with letting people go if they are a money suck on your company. Employees should make money for the company one way or another.

    I;m going to quote everyone's least favorite machinist Titan Gilroy - we need to lift our trade up AND machinists need to take pride in their work. If you can't take pride in what you do then what the hell are you doing?

  10. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by metalmadness View Post
    Since the OP still hasn't replied to everyone's simple question about HOW the HELL they let 3 weeks of parts go running at full speed without any inspection checks, I assume they are busy doing something or other. The crux of the issue may be wages I dunno. Someone with the skill and experience to command a $25-35 wage likely isn't going to be the person scrapping by using a 37deg instead of a 45deg chamfer....

    Yea I mean I don't know the full details of the situation and who this employee is but if that happened here, I would be firing you. I fired someone for being late everyday and not having good reason to be late and not texting or calling. In fact, at one of my old shops they fired one of the Mill Leads for this exact reason. He scrapped an entire batch of tong plates which are very large steel plates with a bunch of holes. Every single hole was offset by exactly 0.625" meaning that the person didn't properly offset the setup. NOR did that person bother doing a first article inspection which is just common sense.

    This wasn't the first time it happened, which is why we fired them. If it is the first time, maybe the person can learn from it and improve but if that person doesn't already have a good track record and a decent bit of company clout then they're getting the axe when they turn $60,000 worth of parts into scrap in a single day.

    If your company has situations like that, it is extremely important to resolve them either with training and education or with letting people go if they are a money suck on your company. Employees should make money for the company one way or another.

    I;m going to quote everyone's least favorite machinist Titan Gilroy - we need to lift our trade up AND machinists need to take pride in their work. If you can't take pride in what you do then what the hell are you doing?
    The OP is too busy doing all the jobs at the shop now. They let the 2 employees go a few weeks ago?

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  12. #110
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    I confess I read the first 3 pages and skipped down here. Are you offering benefits? I for instance program, set up, repair / maintain and the cnc I am on. I also have a afair amount eletronics knowlege. It really depends on what you are looking for in my eyes (sounded different in my head LOL). Sounds like a cool job IMHO.
    You may also ask for salary requirement, but that can be slippery slope. Could also say: "Starts at 15.00 an hour with a review at 4-6 months.
    I am saying this from an employee's stand point.
    I think from you have described it sounds like a fun job, I am really into robotics, drones and R/C helicopters. Plus I love to learn new things, much to wifes sagrin, she is an author of fiction, and read text books. Still has not stopped giving me shit for not reading her last book.

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    QT: Since the OP still hasn't replied to everyone's simple question about HOW the hell they let 3 weeks of parts go running at full speed without any inspection checks,

    Likely the Op has failed the business and now is working at Mc Dees at $16.27 per to get another Grubstake to start over again.

    ref: Mc Dees pay..
    https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salarie...27%20an%20hour.

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    QT: Since the OP still hasn't replied to everyone's simple question about HOW the hell they let 3 weeks of parts go running at full speed without any inspection checks,

    Likely the Op has failed the business and now is working at Mc Dees at $16.27 per to get another Grubstake to start over again.

    ref: Mc Dees pay..
    https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salarie...27%20an%20hour.

    Depending on the household Mc Dees might be an option along with SNAP (food stamps) and Medicaid, along with subsidized child care and free school lunch. I'm serious. Worked one place where around 30 hours was the target for some employees.

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  17. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by idacal View Post
    Dont make to much fun of shoe shiners a good one will put in their pocket 60.00 an hour, all cash. and you get to chat up the ladies wearing those fancy mid thigh high boots. Sound like a hot dog stand.
    disclaimer my mothers family has been cobblers, boot builders, and now shoe repair, shoe shine, business since 1860s. i just didnt want to work that hard and i dont like dealing with that many people.but on to the scheduled programing.
    The shoe shiners at the horse race tracks back in the day used to pull in some nice money, they started going the way of the dinosaur 25 years ago when the internet allowed you to bet and from home and cable TVG channels broadcast the races.

    As for hot dog stands and food trucks it is all about location, location, location. Most locales sell permits for prime locations by sealed bid. So believe it or not a guy's hot dog cart yearly permit cost could equip a machine shop. Copied from an NYT article.

    Call it the half-million-dollar hot dog cart. Mohammad Mastafa of Astoria, Queens, has to sell almost that much in drinks and snacks annually to break even on the pushcart he owns at Fifth Avenue and East 62nd Street near the Central Park Zoo. He pays the city’s parks department $289,500 a year just for the right to operate his single cart there.

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    Qt Op: [Here in FL, our 2 Operators are at $16 with years of experience, but not much more than just operating.]

    If workers are only that, just people who can be replaced by anyone off the street with no or little no training, and there are potentials on the list the lowest pay might be considered.

    If workers come in with skills or develop talents that make them valuable over that level then the pay amount must be high enough that they don't walk at the first higher pay offer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    Qt Op: [Here in FL, our 2 Operators are at $16 with years of experience, but not much more than just operating.]

    If workers are only that, just people who can be replaced by anyone off the street with no or little no training, and there are potentials on the list the lowest pay might be considered.

    If workers come in with skills or develop talents that make them valuable over that level then the pay amount must be high enough that they don't walk at the first higher pay offer.
    They do not want to pay if that is the case. They walk. They do not need a skilled person.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trueturning View Post
    They do not want to pay if that is the case. They walk. They do not need a skilled person.
    Likely if the Op had had a Pays Attention guy/gal that cost $25 per he would have not lost three week's work.

    Yes, there are Pay Attention guys willing to work for $12 to $45 Per.

    The company has to pay attention so to know...somebody is watching out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by otrlt View Post
    I would prefer if no one started a machining business.

    I would also love to see many hotdog carts competing for everyone's business.

    My wish of this happening will never come to fruition.

    The drive to become wealthy is a force that few can overcome, except for those that have tried and failed. Only then, they will polish my boots.
    I would prefer that you continue to have competition yet with your outlook it is not likely that you pose much of a challenge to them anyway. Even someone with a hotdog cart would not bother.

  23. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by EndlessWaltz View Post
    Back on track.

    Here is what I don't get. We see all you guys not being able to find good employees, yet the OP , and others bend over to protect guys who crash machines, do drugs partime, and essentially wasting time. Do you think that gives you a good reputation? You may be desperate, but like many said here, give a lecture or they should be out the door.

    Two guys scrapping parts on a f-ing Mazak. It freakin does the math for you for certain tapers even! They wanted gravy and didn't give two shits and probably don't even know proper machining or Gcode to save their life.

    1) Clean and AC shop. No rotten egg smell. Get some mist collectors!
    2) Treat everyone like your equal and with respect. All people want to learn unless you already pissed them off.
    3) Keep up on the evolving industry in tooling and workholding or the good guys will laugh on your shop tour and you can't pay them enough to work for you.
    4) Don't promote ass kissers, promote the guys willing to tell you that you may be wrong on a cutting strategy etc. They will make you bank.

    You can't do this or unwilling. Retire.
    All people want to learn?

    That hasn't remotely been my experience.

  24. #119
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    Nowadays people want to be associates, whatever happened to work and workers.

    Do the drill correctly and get paid.

    I don't want to and try my way should not even be considered until one is very seasoned/experienced at a skill/task.

  25. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    Nowadays people want to be associates, whatever happened to work and workers.

    Do the drill correctly and get paid.

    I don't want to and try my way should not even be considered until one is very seasoned/experienced at a skill/task.

    Because fresh eyes and ideas have NEVER solved a problem that "the way we've always done it" couldn't overcome

    *rolleyes.jpg*


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