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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    Nowadays people want to be associates, whatever happened to work and workers.

    Do the drill correctly and get paid.

    I don't want to and try my way should not even be considered until one is very seasoned/experienced at a skill/task.
    I would think at least listening to their idea and then explain why it isn't as good as the sog/sop is a critical part of growing as a company. Either a teaching moment is missed or an opportunity to improve is missed.

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  3. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    For what reason was 3 weeks of parts not inspected before the 3 week mark??

    The owner, the inspector and the boss were all too busy to pay attention to the business..

    Should have had a $100 an hour guy if running the whole shebang.
    Unfortunately, I am the owner, inspector, the boss, and another operator. I was doing the other things necessary to keep the business going and unfortunately assumed he was making good parts. I mean it was a simple headed pin. 2 dia, oal, and a chamfer.

    Quote Originally Posted by metalmadness View Post
    Since the OP still hasn't replied to everyone's simple question about HOW the hell they let 3 weeks of parts go running at full speed without any inspection checks, I assume they are busy doing something or other. The crux of the issue may be wages I dunno. Someone with the skill and experience to command a $25-35 wage likely isn't going to be the person scrapping by using a 37deg instead of a 45deg chamfer....
    Sorry for the late reply on this. I was busy making sure they got paid I guess by making my own good (more difficult) parts. This part was a part with 4 or 5 dimensions, 2 od, OAL, and chamfer size x 45*. I should have checked them my self, I surely take responsibility for that and will never let that slide again, but I assumed after his 30 years in the machining world that I could trust him to get the most basic of basic parts correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckg7442 View Post
    The OP is too busy doing all the jobs at the shop now. They let the 2 employees go a few weeks ago?
    Yes, Exactly. Just finished them up the other day

  4. #123
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    In that boat, I check the first part, a few parts in, and then one part every now and then to make sure the process is stable and the operator is dong the job right. Sometimes the operator is my wife, my kid, or a guy I hired part time. Only takes a minute.

  5. #124
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    I think with having low attention employees it might be good to have a clipboard with notes to tell the few critical checkpoints and the frequency to check...write down the current size or the time checked check off.

    With spoken instructions perhaps only 50% will be remembered...and now with cell phones, people might ignore the work for a considerable time.

    Same mistakes are common from one young worker to the next, so a crew sheet of instruction might tell each new employee of the past mistakes common to that particular job/task.

  6. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark P. View Post
    I'm coming from a family shop and accepted what I made because of that. On a usual day, I would run our two CNC mills 9 to 10 hours a day. Finding myself soon to be in the job market now is a eye opening. I was offered $17.50 an hour at a machine shop and would have to pay a portion of health insurance for my 30+ years of experience. On the other hand, I have other opportunities in other fields for well over $20 an hour. I'll probably take some time off and contemplate my future.
    This guy still calls to see if I have a job. The way he was looking at it, if I worked 10 hours overtime a week, I could almost make what I was pulling in before? I didn't think my pay scale was all that high to begin with.

  7. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark P. View Post
    This guy still calls to see if I have a job. The way he was looking at it, if I worked 10 hours overtime a week, I could almost make what I was pulling in before? I didn't think my pay scale was all that high to begin with.
    Probably because he hasn't found anyone else to work for button pusher wages either. $17.50 is an insult for 30 years experience we start kids out of high school at or near that. We do have a guy that has 30 years experience that we only pay low 20s but he's a 10 second Tom that needs his hand held, it's more like 1 year experience 30 times over. You don't sound like that guy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AJ H View Post
    Probably because he hasn't found anyone else to work for button pusher wages either. $17.50 is an insult for 30 years experience we start kids out of high school at or near that. We do have a guy that has 30 years experience that we only pay low 20s but he's a 10 second Tom that needs his hand held, it's more like 1 year experience 30 times over. You don't sound like that guy.
    Thanks, I'm not afraid to work. I've spent countless hours in the evening and weekends here alone. Done everything from quoting, to purchasing, to billing, to delivering and most importantly programming and running my own parts from start to finish. The $17.50 was definitely a gut punch.

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  10. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiTillIdie View Post
    We are currently a 4 full time person shop. Including 2 operators and 2 experienced programmers (my dad and myself)...

    Here in FL, our 2 Operators are at $16 with years of experience, but not much more than just operating.

    Quote Originally Posted by TiTillIdie View Post
    I should have checked them my self, I surely take responsibility for that and will never let that slide again, but I assumed after his 30 years in the machining world that I could trust him to get the most basic of basic parts correct.
    He has 30 years of experience, and he still can't find someone who'll pay him more than $16 per hour? That's not a guy I'd trust to get ANYTHING correct.

  11. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evenglischatiest View Post
    He has 30 years of experience, and he still can't find someone who'll pay him more than $16 per hour? That's not a guy I'd trust to get ANYTHING correct.
    It was stated somewhere before, 30 years of 1 year experience. A long list of short previous employment should've been a sign.

  12. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJ H View Post
    Probably because he hasn't found anyone else to work for button pusher wages either. $17.50 is an insult for 30 years experience we start kids out of high school at or near that. We do have a guy that has 30 years experience that we only pay low 20s but he's a 10 second Tom that needs his hand held, it's more like 1 year experience 30 times over. You don't sound like that guy.
    It depends on skill level. $17.50 isn't an insult if that guy with 30 years experience is very low skilled, and is a disaster if asked to do more than simple tasks. They do exist, people that probably should never have stayed in the trade. I was what they called a latch key kid and fed myself and my sister at a young age, parents divorced and then mom trained me how to get dinner going or cook simple meals, as she worked and took night classes.

    A half century and change later, my cooking is at the same level. Not from lack of trying, I just don't have an aptitude for it. There are people who stayed in machining that are an exact copy if me in a kitchen.

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    QT: [It depends on skill level. $17.50 isn't an insult if that guy with 30 years experience is very low skilled,]

    Or for a hundred other reasons.... He is highly skilled and likes to walk to work. likes the work and really doesn't need a ton of money, There are other benefits, tired of setting home and likes being with his friends. Likes to have a few drinks and this boss doesn't care about that.

    I know of a world-class machine builder that likely pays about $22 now, and the owner says he has some of the best machinists and grinder hands in the world. If I told you the name (but I won't ) you would be really surprised.

    Yes, he is a leader in the field and ships machines to many countries.

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    Florida as a whole has a problem. The idea that being in Florida is worth $10/hr in and of itself. True there is no state income tax, but utilities are obscenely high and food and fuel etc are no cheaper than elsewhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CITIZEN F16 View Post
    It depends on skill level. $17.50 isn't an insult if that guy with 30 years experience is very low skilled, and is a disaster if asked to do more than simple tasks. They do exist, people that probably should never have stayed in the trade. I was what they called a latch key kid and fed myself and my sister at a young age, parents divorced and then mom trained me how to get dinner going or cook simple meals, as she worked and took night classes.

    A half century and change later, my cooking is at the same level. Not from lack of trying, I just don't have an aptitude for it. There are people who stayed in machining that are an exact copy if me in a kitchen.
    Read some of my posts and tell me if I'm a disaster. I have 33 years of experience. Ran two different CNCs most days. Learned from the ground up. I'm not a knob

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    Sometimes the difference between $17 and $35 is having the gumption enough and take the chance to walk.

    Might even have to go to a better pay area.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TiTillIdie View Post
    Unfortunately, I am the owner, inspector, the boss, and another operator. I was doing the other things necessary to keep the business going and unfortunately assumed he was making good parts. I mean it was a simple headed pin. 2 dia, oal, and a chamfer.



    Sorry for the late reply on this. I was busy making sure they got paid I guess by making my own good (more difficult) parts. This part was a part with 4 or 5 dimensions, 2 od, OAL, and chamfer size x 45*. I should have checked them my self, I surely take responsibility for that and will never let that slide again, but I assumed after his 30 years in the machining world that I could trust him to get the most basic of basic parts correct.


    Yes, Exactly. Just finished them up the other day
    Ok So looking back how important was it to you to take care of your business and to upon reflection State that you were busy? I mean not to wail on that too much as it can happen in the blink of the eye all of a sudden and the timing of it dictates your actions.

    Or in honest appraisal the implementation of 101 checks and balances for a verified policy and quality control structure needed to be in place. The money you lost is gone forever. Time to step up and take care of business. One can blame the operator every time yet they are not at fault for the lack of structural integrity.

    A top notch machinist would have caught that and avoided it implementing the guidelines he has learned over the years following the discipline needed to do good work. Such person will go where there is higher pay always. If they don’t then they are delaying it for some valid reason (perhaps their own personal reason) and it may just be that they just decide to wait. As the end of the world likely is not neigh. They might believe they could do some good there. Most often they can not and never will. Responsibility lies with the owner.

  21. #136
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    Even a top-notch machinist will make a mistake. Three weeks of mistakes is way over the top. likely a change in the process is/was needed.

    Done is done and next time/ from now on we will......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark P. View Post
    Read some of my posts and tell me if I'm a disaster. I have 33 years of experience. Ran two different CNCs most days. Learned from the ground up. I'm not a knob
    My comment was not directed at you, it came from thinking of co-workers from decades ago when I worked at very large company. There were a good many workers 50 and up that started at the company right out of high school. The company was non union, but was very adverse to firing people as long as they showed up on time, sober and made an effort. No idea how many departments we had, but I think some people had been in every one of them, management trying to find a spot where someone could be the most productive.

    The department I worked in had a 30 year guy that was probably where an average machinist would be at the 3 month mark. He pretty much had perfect attendance and was a hard worker, he just didn't have the aptitude for machining.
    There were a couple machines dedicated to some very simple brass parts that could run weeks without even making an offset, that is where he was happily parked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    Even a top-notch machinist will make a mistake. Three weeks of mistakes is way over the top. likely a change in the process is/was needed.

    Done is done and next time/ from now on we will......
    I am sure we have all been burned at least once, getting comfortable on a repeat job with a dimension that never changes, and we get lax about checking it. I have done that more than once, but at least the parts never went to inspection, or when I was self employed to a customer. Always did a 100% on a last part before turning the parts in. I would say the record screw up time for those gaffes were at worst a couple hours. Also most all parts I have ever run are a coffee cup size down to a wrist watch part. My biggest screw up might have scrapped $100 of material.

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    At our place in the UK. £14.75 for operators... Some arent worth minimum wage, one guy has a resume of 20year. Absolute dogshit.
    I am a mastercam programmer for mill, lathe and 7axis dorris sharmman. I get 37k annum. If i went somewere else, i would likely be crap as different companies have different methods. There is more than 1 way to peel an orange.

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    Oppster,
    I have known a number of UK guys and most of not all say/said they do better here in the States as far as the lifestyle they can afford compared to their counterpart in the UK. but yes wages have changed since I retired in 2004.

    I think $25 per is an OK wage, for an annual of about 50k. Yes, for an adult person who can perform a task and be reliable enough to get to work almost all the expected days.

    Agree to some employers just can't pay that because the work doesn't make enough.


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