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  1. #41
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    [QUOTE= By the way, some of the weed smokers that were rejected out of hand might be decent machinists. I may be missing something, but how is a guy who smokes a joint after work a worse risk than the one who goes through a thirty pack each night?

    Tom[/QUOTE]

    An excellent point. Simply put - There is a very narrow line between medicine and poison.

  2. #42
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    One test in one day is not going to find the right person. I read a lot of the threads on PM on how to test for a potential employee and I don't understand why employers get upset when they can't get the right individual. It is your hiring and training process that slows you down.

    To "find" the right person it takes a little recruiting effort, a small amount of specific training with specific task(s) at the end of the training. Once the task(s) have been completed and evaluated, you can then pick the right person for follow-on formal training program. This part of the hiring process is both hands on and written test. But you really need to ensure you test the individual on the task you trained and how you trained them to do that specific task(s). The task can be completely unrelated to the position as you are looking for adaptability and positive traits.

    During the formal training program you further determine suitability of the potential employee. During and at the end of the training program you test and evaluate the individual constantly and consistently. You are looking for many traits and skills during this process and an individual can be dropped at any point. Evaluation during the entire program is key.

    Once the training program is complete you further select the individual(s) and integrate them into the workforce (if not already done). A six month probation is key as they are further evaluated while part of the workforce.

    All employees benefit through an annual re-certification evaluation. That re-certification/evaluation should be based on the traits listed and skills trained on during the training program.

    Throughout the employment of the individual, an employer benefits from additional training and development of the employee.

    This does take an extensive amount of time and resources, but it can be scaled to fit your particular organization. If you put the time and resources in, you are more likely to find a qualified individual. "Qualified" being someone that is highly trainable and adaptable to your organization. Skills can be taught, traits are difficult if not impossible to change. I would prefer a low skilled individual with high values and positive traits than a high skilled individual with low values and negative traits.

    By having a formal process that every individual goes through it develops a cohesive organization as everyone is aware of the challenging process they went through to be hired. There is a certain amount of respect and instant acceptance of a individual that just completed this type of program.

    How do I know this works? I have been through an extreme program similar to this (not geared toward machining)and I know someone that has been through it themselves will work with me no questions asked. We may not get along, but we will accomplish the task.

    At the end of the day, an expert CNC machinist can walk through the door, but is that individual right for your company?

  3. Likes Gordon B. Clarke liked this post
  4. #43
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    Send me a PM and I will forward you a test I have used in the past. Includes math skills, print reading, manual dexterity, critical thinking, etc.

  5. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by mach2 View Post
    So your add dicriminates against the handicapped.

    I once bought a lathe at a university auction. The department head with all his great wisdom proceeded to face plant the lathe with a fork lift. Lucky no one got hurt, there were bystanders and a few had to jump out of the way. I told department head to go find someone who knew how to drive one of those things. A few minutes later a kid with one arm and a stub, with the fork lift, picked the lathe and proceeded to load it expertly like I've never seen before or since.

    Most handicapped just want to be treated fairly. Many can do more with one arm than the rest of us can do wit two.
    I know a machinist with mongol features. A handicap for those that judge a book by its cover. I quickly found out that he was the "go to" guy if you wanted something that was nigh on perfect. It was/is fascinating to watch him work as he devotes full concentration and I've never known him to make a mistake. He's also the "go to" guy if you have a problem with your computer.

  6. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    Probably the best way to ensure a better class of machinists would be a state mandated machinist education.

    As things are it seems to be up to companies how good an education future machinists get. Some companies do an excellent job while too many others just seem to look for cheap labour and cross their fingers that they get lucky.

    In most of Europe to become a machinist requires a form of apprenticeship lasting at least 4 years.

    If I was hiring I'd start with one simple question. "Where's the last place you worked and do you mind if I phone them?"
    Not my only question but a good start.

    Why Germany Is So Much Better at Training Its Workers - The Atlantic


    The German model won't take hold here without a huge shift in how blue collar work is regarded in this country. Parents here have been conditioned to think : "My child DESERVES the prestige which attaches to a college degree and a white collar job". He/she will not be a grease monkey".

    Don't expect much help from business, labor, or politicians, either. They may give lip service to the need for the type of skilled craftsmen the Germans nurture, but cooperation between these groups in America seems unlikely.

    I'd also like to know where the money will come from, with taxes being slashed to finance two wars.

    Tom

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  8. #46
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    Just ask how many threads per inch on a 1" mike. Give them 1 minute. If they can't figure it out by then or they don't know it already throw them away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Revelstone View Post
    Just ask how many threads per inch on a 1" mike. Give them 1 minute. If they can't figure it out by then or they don't know it already throw them away.
    And for those of us who use only digital mics?

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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    And for those of us who use only digital mics?
    Most of them are still 40tpi though, but a few exceptions exist...

    Maybe ask him about his digital verniers

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    Quote Originally Posted by Revelstone View Post
    Just ask how many threads per inch on a 1" mike. Give them 1 minute. If they can't figure it out by then or they don't know it already throw them away.
    And everyone who uses the metric system will just look at you and wonder why you're still in the 19th Century, conclude you'll probably pay & treat employees as if you were, and move right along.

    PDW

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    Quote Originally Posted by SND View Post
    Most of them are still 40tpi though
    Ok, but there is no practical reason to need to know that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Revelstone View Post
    Just ask how many threads per inch on a 1" mike. Give them 1 minute. If they can't figure it out by then or they don't know it already throw them away.
    Oh that's easy..... 12.7 if you run a productive shop.
    40 if you live in the dark ages, don't care about production speed and buy the cheap stuff.
    What the interviewer wants for an answer may tell the interviewee a few things.
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Oh that's easy..... 12.7 if you run a productive shop.
    Are you sure ?



    40 if you live in the dark ages, don't care about production speed and buy the cheap stuff.
    "The inch versions were discontinued many years ago much to the chagrin of many a discerning machinist."

    This discerning machinist had two and never used them after the first time or two. They are a lot more cumbersome and harder to read and less accurate. But they sure are neat

    And there is no way to get "cheap stuff" into the same sentence as Etalon, inch or metric

  15. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    Ok, but there is no practical reason to need to know that.
    I'm not convinced it is a good test, but you should be able to figure it out pretty quickly by counting turns. If the mic is on you can move 1 turn, see the readout, and calculate. If you want to cut down on your error do 10 turns. Feeling stubborn and you can turn all 40 (or however many).

    If you expect people to know from memory and aren't providing them a mic to check then you might as well ask how many gradations on a Bridgeport x dial, which would be equally useless.

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  17. #54
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    How would you proceed turn a thread from looking at a sample part..to tap a hole.. how would you square a rectangle part on a vertical mill/on a surface grinder. ..how close would you expect to saw cut a part to a scribed line. how would you dress a .125 radius on a surface grinder wheel. This for a manual machine shop..For a CNC shop how to program a simple part..

    QT:[In most of Europe to become a machinist requires a form of apprenticeship lasting at least 4 years.]
    Much the same in the big USA shops..job shops and small shops train their machinists with a skilled hand teaching ..
    I have worked alongside Germans, Brits, Croations ,French,Swiss and more.... they all think they are better than the other and better than us USA guys...but push come to doing the job and some are great and some not so great..just like us.


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