question for Don....tapping machine business

snowman · Oct 30, 2005

Don,

What kind of quantity did you used to sell, monthly or yearly.

-Jacob

muleworks · Oct 30, 2005

How similar was your taping machine to the wilton model? Is the line still carried on by someone else, it looked like a good design.
Chris

Milacron · Oct 31, 2005

Quanity...can't remember now...maybe 70 per year average from 1988 to 1999, with average sale of $3,000 each. Was doing more volume about 1990 thru 1995 timeframe with excellent sales to Japan.

Not bad for a 2 person/low overhead/high profit show I guess...subbed out most parts, but made some in house...all prototype work in house of course.

Sold product line to my competitor, Flexarm, in 1999. Their A32 model is my design, but then never produced the larger more impressive machine, the A80 as they are private labeling some hydraulic motor arms from Spain that take care of their larger tap capacity sales.

www.flexarminc.com/a32new.html

Re Wilton question..which Wilton ?..they have different styles...none of which they make of course.

snowman · Oct 31, 2005

So, I guess the real question begins here.

If you were selling 70 a year, and subbing out parts...what kind of quantity were you subbing out for those parts? One at a time, or large quantity to get the quantity discount. How did you learn what quantity to keep on hand?

-Jacob

Milacron · Oct 31, 2005

Yikes Snow...you're gonna make me *think* aren't you ?

First off I'm not sure what you mean by 'one at a time' since of course one wouldn't sub any small part out "just one"...I recall getting hundreds of some parts "at a time"...depends on the part and how many of that part were used in each machine. Also, in my case, certain volumes were needed to make black oxide and annodizing in batches cost effective.

Why do you want to know ? :confused:

jkilroy · Oct 31, 2005

Don't look now but Don is a role model.

Imagine that, the younger guys asking the big D for business advice!!

Don, they are asking because you have "been there, done that, got the t-shirt" (Or in the case, got the greenbacks)

Snowman is asking questions about managing costs and inventory, two basic aspects of business. How did you weigh production costs against customer demand. That he is asking these questions, rather than how you built them, or what machines you used at the time, shows that he has a good grasp of business priorities.

Its time to step up to the mic, consider it but one price you pay for success.

dkmc · Oct 31, 2005

Its top secret trade information.
That & the D's got a 50 year non-disclosure agreement to uphold.

dk

Milacron · Oct 31, 2005

Well there is that pesky "covenant not to compete" I had to sign

matt_isserstedt · Oct 31, 2005

My take on this is that if you can stabilize the production volume you are golden.

Then everything involving production logistics goes much smoother and can be planned relative to quantity breaks from suppliers and how much investment you want to have tied up in production materials (parts).

It's the boom and bust cycles that kill planning IMHO.

-Matt

jkilroy · Oct 31, 2005

Oh come on now, no way discussing inventory management, a generic concept, is covered by a non-compete agreement.

JL Sargent · Oct 31, 2005

Well there is that pesky "covenant not to compete" I had to sign

That has a 10yr limit, right?

dkmc · Oct 31, 2005

Oh come on now, no way discussing inventory management, a generic concept, is covered by a non-compete agreement.

I was joking on the 50 year number.
But I've asked D similar Q's before and he's reluctant to expand on the short answers.
That's understood and ok.....its his business not mine

He may have future plans.....?

dan k

snowman · Oct 31, 2005

what machines he used at the time is irrelevant.

everybody does things differently, but it is hard to make that jump.

FOr example, I buy custom boxes...pay 8 dollars each in quantity of ten each. IF I were to get off my ass and take the chance, ordering them in quantity of 50, I can get them for 4 bucks each. But I keep feeling like the bottom is going to drop out of my business....granted, I can adapt, but a box that specifically fits a product can't, and then it's a loss.

I was mostly curious as he said he made some parts on CNC. I have always viewed CNC really simply...if I'm going to fire it up, I'm making at least ten parts.

So, after thinking about it...I think you could each tell me how you manage inventory, and it probably wouldn't help me a damn bit...because each market is individual, and each person approaches a problem differently....I guess that's what makes a successful business....the chance you are willing or unwilling to take. I never understood that before now...business never = chance.

-Jacob

Milacron · Oct 31, 2005

Oh come on now, no way discussing inventory management, a generic concept, is covered by a non-compete agreement.

I thought that so obvious that it would be obvious I was just joking around with dk after he mentioned something equally "whimsical" to the situation.

because each market is individual, and each person approaches a problem differently....

Yep. I was constantly tinkering with design improvments and new accessories, so, for my situation, the major "how many to order" cringer was not that sales would slow, but that I might want to change the design of some aspect of the product, which would make some of those parts instantly obsolete and worthless.

I didn't want to get in a situation where I purposely neglected improvements just because I felt the need to "use all those parts lying around". But I usually found a way to "phase out" one design and use most of the original parts up before the changeover.

Another challenge in the "how many to order" department was ordering brochures. One major change and thousands of brochures, that might have cost a dollar each to print, into the dumpster, new photos, new page design, order some new ones ! Perhaps the advent of the Web has helped aleviate some of that sort of thing.

Perk · Oct 31, 2005

Don, you certainly didn’t build your tapping tables based on the results of a stress analyses computation did you? You talk about over kill, I would have one in my garage if I thought the floor would take it.

snowman · Oct 31, 2005

Actually, those tables look about right to me.

You aren't always going to be tapping an aluminum head...could be a big huge heavy cast iron head...slide those over it all day and you'll start wearing down the table, etc. Hit the leg a couple times with a forklift and it'll bend, etc.

-Jacob

Milacron · Oct 31, 2005

Don, you certainly didn’t build your tapping tables based on the results of a stress analyses computation did you? You talk about over kill,

There is a tremendous strain at main pivot point with the arm all the way out, tapping 1" NC taps. Plus the unit was meant to have the possiblity of tapping castings sitting on the floor behind the table...in which case a heavy table was needed for counterweight as well.

(with optional vertical/horizontal motor mount one could tap horizontally and any angle in between, as well)

Shown in the Muraki brochure is a (permanent) magnetic base, which worked well...2,000 lbs holding power on Blanchard ground 3/4" ferrous surface, as I recall.

For the smaller tappers we offered Lista tables with rock maple tops, on casters for portability, drawer units optional.

Of course we didn't sell all that many tables as most customers used their own bench.

matt_isserstedt · Oct 31, 2005

The design of the table is very familiar from other "build fixtures" used in automotive assembly plants....3/4" to 1" thick Blanchard ground steel surface, even for chintzy parts like brake lines and other plastic things.

I dunno if the major idea is that the surface is solid and won't spring or move (stable). However it is *very* convenient to make modifications, tap holes, etc with the use of a magnetic drill press (or a tapping arm if you have one

).

I was curious about the black and yellow striped horizontal "way" on the back of the table...is this for instant repositioning (ala linear bearing), or is there more work, as in removing bolts, etc, to locate another position or accomodate a left-handed user???

-Matt

Milacron · Oct 31, 2005

The linear way slide was just to give more range to an already large range circle. Keep in mind due to geometry of the articulating arm, you can't "do much" with it until you pull it out some, so the slide and pivoting extention base allowed one to get closer to the rear edge of the table as well. Both were lockable in position if so desired.

Slides were hardened V track with matching ball bearing rollers. Rollers have ecentric bushings for fine adjustments.

www.bwc.com/html/dualvee.html

Sliding base track wasn't necessary for most folks, but it was fun to move around at trade shows if nothing else

dkmc · Oct 31, 2005

DT:

What I'd be interested in hearing about, is how you came up with the idea, and the point where you decided to take the leap into producing them.
Did you quit your day job to do it?

dk

question for Don....tapping machine business

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