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  1. #1
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    Default Questions on quoting job??

    I am fairly new to quoting jobs but have had 2 people say my price was nuts. One was simple job for 200 shafts of 1541h steel 6 inch diameter to cut 3 each 2 inch diameter holes. Punched it into inventor and cut time was about 18 minutes to spot drill, drill, rough milling, bore and then debur for each shaft. I figured $15 each. I usually base my quotes on estimated cutting time in inventor.

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    The super simple approach is: material cost + programming cost + machining cost + tooling cost + setup time = price.

    I'd say a pretty typical shop rate for machining time is $60/hr (i.e. $1/minute) so at $15/each on these, if your 18 minute cycle time is accurate, I'd guess you're losing money at the end of the day (after accounting for material, programming, tooling, and setup.)

    So maybe they meant your price was 'nuts' because it was too low, and not too high? Or maybe they're just dreamers who have no idea how much something should actually cost. Or maybe they're used to dealing with guys running clapped out machines in dingy holes who are all racing to the bottom on price?

    All that said, 6 minutes each for a 2 inch hole sounds like I'm either missing something important, or like there should be a faster way to do it (but it's impossible to tell without a print.)

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    "Nuts" ?
    As in too high ?

    Purchasing agents always say this, they want you to make the parts, and pay them.

    See if you get the job after the smoke clears.

    What's your floor-to-floor time ?

    Add 15% or so to that, multiply by your hourly rate.

    Materials involved too ?

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    Did you forget the material cost?

    consumables?

    Surely, you have a shop rate that covers "your cost" per hour to run a job.

    I worked at a place where the owner had a shop rate for each machine, then shop consumables were added in.

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    Anything that is 6 inches in Diameter and can be described as a SHAFT, should
    require at least $15 in handling charges alone.

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    The price seems to be bordering on the crazy cheap side, but hard to tell without seeing the part. Please tell us that $15 is not including material. Give us some more detail on what your process is and the overall size of this thing. Maybe someone turns these out with a big drill press and jig?

    I guess maybe things are different in the south than up here in the northeast. Not too many shops with CNC equipment will touch a 6" steel part for $15 in quantity of only 200.

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    Something my wife taught me when selling stuff . . .
    Someone asks what your best price is, then you ask them what they had in mind. They will usually respond with a price better than your best price. It really does work, even in the industrial purchase agent setting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cgmaster View Post
    I am fairly new to quoting jobs but have had 2 people say my price was nuts. One was simple job for 200 shafts of 1541h steel 6 inch diameter to cut 3 each 2 inch diameter holes. Punched it into inventor and cut time was about 18 minutes to spot drill, drill, rough milling, bore and then debur for each shaft. I figured $15 each. I usually base my quotes on estimated cutting time in inventor.
    For what you describe, your price seems low to make money at that. There is the possibility that you are quoting against a shop that is better equipped for the job. You list 5 tools. Maybe the other shop has it trimmed down to just one large insert drill, bore (if the insert drill still can't hit tolerance), and deburr. If they are finishing the holes in 1/3 your time due to tools, fixtures and equipment available, it might be best to keep searching for jobs that better fit your shop. If you drop your bid, 60 hours is long time to be standing at your machines not making money.

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    Got it straightened out. The shafts are already made so no material cost. The i missed the party about measurements were in mm. (Was not in the comments section of the drawing but was listed on the page so that drastically changed the price. I'm not posting someone's drawing for the public to see. My rates are a little lower than some but I have a very low overhead. From what I know there is only one other general machine shop near me but they only have manual machines. But there is also not much demand.

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    I don't know if this is funny or not. I was the one who sent him the job to quote. It was a customer of a customer PDF, Unit:mm was in the same font as the dimension numbers and was toward the top of the drawing. Since I said tolerances were +/-.002 on diameter and location on the holes I would think one would assume MM in the first place. Also if in inches the parts would have weighed approximately 200 pounds each making 200 of them 20 tons!

    For the record if in inches $15 each would have been ridiculously low, that should have been the handling charge.
    As for the OP, learn from your mistakes. It wasn't wise for you to make this post this quickly, you should have kept things to yourself. You exposed yourself making a bad mistake after posting wanting work, not good.

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    If someone tells me .002 tolerance I expect inches/imperial all over. .002mm tolerance is getting pretty damn small & accurate, and a lot more than $15.... unless you mean .02mm which is still less than +/-.001"...

    Now if someone's throwing inch tolerances on metric dimensions that's just getting even more messed up. Pretty sure most of us usually expect tolerance and dimension system to go together.

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    Well its kind of funny. When I saw+-.002 I assumed in inches. I don't even have equipment to measure .002mm. And like I said if your not in a hurry I could do them for $15 each yes it's a little cheap but I was going to run then between jobs and I would have done 4 at a time. Also the time estimates I get from the computer can usually by a pretty good margin.

    I made the post because another shop I quoted that seemed reputable said my prices were very high. When I asked them a fair cost it was barely more than my material cost.

    I am a one man shop. I'm retired and do this because I enjoy it. It pays for my other hobbies.

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    Here is a rule to follow: If a purchasing agent calls you back and tells you your price is too high then that means you are already the low bidder.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wild West View Post
    Here is a rule to follow: If a purchasing agent calls you back and tells you your price is too high then that means you are already the low bidder.
    No, he was at $15. I had one at $2.87 and one at $2.50.

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    Yup $15 for a6 inch diameter part. Sent you a quote back when you cleared up the dimensions think it was either $2.7 or $2.8. But if it is. 002mm tolerance I'm not even going to fool with it. I don't even have anything that can measure. 002mm

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    Quote Originally Posted by cgmaster View Post
    Got it straightened out. The shafts are already made so no material cost. The i missed the party about measurements were in mm. (Was not in the comments section of the drawing but was listed on the page so that drastically changed the price. I'm not posting someone's drawing for the public to see. My rates are a little lower than some but I have a very low overhead. From what I know there is only one other general machine shop near me but they only have manual machines. But there is also not much demand.
    It does not matter that your overhead is low. You charge the market price or as much as you can get. Your overhead may not always be low. You cannot just break even. You have to have extra banked away for future expansion, repairs, etc.

    Some people think because I am a one-man shop at my home, that my overhead is low. Ha! Once I explain that besides doing the machining, that I have fifteen other jobs to do that don't directly make money. If I am not on the shop floor, no chips are being made. Proportionally, my overhead is probably more than a multi-man shop in a leased building.

    Bill

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    I agree. I'm not just braking even. I do make a profit. For a simple job like this I had 0 material cost and minimal tooling cost. Insurance, taxes, electricity etc.

    Next year I may start taking more jobs. I spoke to the instructor for the local votech and he wants to start sending students. Not sure I want to do that or possibly if I can find a good retired machinist hire him part time. Either way I would have to have allot of trust in someone to run and program the machines. I would probably still do all the programming and setup then just have someone change parts.

    I bought the machines to do my work. Anything I make for other people is extra if I have the time. The money I make dining this pats for my other toys.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cgmaster View Post
    I agree. I'm not just braking even. I do make a profit. For a simple job like this I had 0 material cost and minimal tooling cost. Insurance, taxes, electricity etc.

    Next year I may start taking more jobs. I spoke to the instructor for the local votech and he wants to start sending students. Not sure I want to do that or possibly if I can find a good retired machinist hire him part time. Either way I would have to have allot of trust in someone to run and program the machines. I would probably still do all the programming and setup then just have someone change parts.

    I bought the machines to do my work. Anything I make for other people is extra if I have the time. The money I make dining this pats for my other toys.
    Also, I have a one hour minimum charge. Of course I do favors and such, and once in a while it is just a five minute job. I know other shops have higher minimums. One of my customers used to be a water jet/laser shop doing DoD work. Their minimum was $750.

    Bill

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    Just to get this straight

    A 6mm shaft required x3 2mm holes at a locational and dimensional accuracy of +- 0.002mm ? (+- 0.0000787" for the imperial people)

    If that's the case, for giggles,
    Who here would confidanty take on that job and what would your price be per part on a run of 200?

    I know I cannot even begin to qc that part, let alone try and hit those numbers

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stirling View Post
    Just to get this straight

    A 6mm shaft required x3 2mm holes at a locational and dimensional accuracy of +- 0.002mm ? (+- 0.0000787" for the imperial people)

    If that's the case, for giggles,
    Who here would confidanty take on that job and what would your price be per part on a run of 200?

    I know I cannot even begin to qc that part, let alone try and hit those numbers
    This is confusing me too. When Dualkit said "Since I said tolerances were +/-.002 on diameter and location on the holes I would think one would assume MM in the first place.", he must have meant a larger value like 0.2mm.

    It would be good to get confirmation on that, if just to clean up the thread.


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