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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDW View Post
    The stupid part of this - and I *mean* stupid - is having a drawing in one measurement system and then specifying a tolerance in a completely different one AND NOT SAYING SO!

    Come on - that is idiotic, it's got nothing to do with mind-reading.

    PDW
    It was not my drawing, ok? Your condescending comments are unnecessary, but if making them makes you feel good about yourself go right ahead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PDW View Post
    The stupid part of this - and I *mean* stupid - is having a drawing in one measurement system and then specifying a tolerance in a completely different one AND NOT SAYING SO!

    Come on - that is idiotic, it's got nothing to do with mind-reading.

    PDW
    You mean like "6 mm 1.0 tap 1.00 deep"

    Metric tapped hole with English depth.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    It was not my drawing, ok? Your condescending comments are unnecessary, but if making them makes you feel good about yourself go right ahead.
    The funny thing is the OP correctly ASSUMED the units for the tolerance but missed the units for the drawing that were actually provided. So it wouldn't have made any difference in this case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post

    I had no issues with the print or that the .002 that was stated in the e-mail was inches. Even if I missed the "Unit:mm" the title of "Mini Output Shaft" would have told me they weren't 200 pound parts. As for .002 tolerance if in mm that would have been an inch tolerance of less than .0001, so obvious to me it was in inches.
    The title may have told you something if you do work for this customer, but I wouldn't make any assumptions based on the title. Maybe the regular sized shaft is 18" in diameter. Of course, I usually pretty much ignore the title as unimportant for manufacturing. I once saw a drawing that was a weldment of flat plates and the title was ring.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    It was not my drawing, ok? Your condescending comments are unnecessary, but if making them makes you feel good about yourself go right ahead.


    I can't speak for anyone, but myself and I can say I get Prints like this all the time...some from old customers deciding to take on CAD. Some are new customers that have little clue what a dimensioned print is, never mind how to draw one. Some that are true geniuses and have every dimension, angle tolerance in their head and do not realize I do not. I need all that info on the print in order to make correctly.
    I have customers that mix metric and imperial sizes and dimensions.

    I usually get on the horn and we discus the part till I understand what is needed...down side...some of their lousy prints make it to the floor on occasion and the guys at the machine run as they read..right wrong or indifferent. That is my fault for passing on a bad print, even though its my customers.


    Anyway...dealing with a new client...read/given a .002" tolerance your in the mindset of inches. Its happened to me...stupid mistake to assume.
    But gent giving out the bad print assumed it would be picked up that the parts where in mm by reading the block, by reading "mini" shaft. I get clarifiers all the time that are only relevant if I know the other parts, small output shaft. Okay, the other output shafts are 8" dia...so the 7" diameter shaft is the small shaft.


    In any case...this is a place to ask questions and get answers from many smart people. OP did not provide any specific info pertaining to the customer...just some basic info. I do not see where he was in the wrong for posting here.

    FYI to the original poster...I understand you have low overhead...but to charge low because of that you will have an issue if you later decided to build a business based on a developed customer base expecting low ball pricing.

  6. #46
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    Daym this thread really blew up.

    I saw mini output shaft but mini means different things to different people. Yeah I assumed. I retried as a ship captain so when someone says they are taking a big boat sometimes I assume wrong on that also lol. I am used to doing jobs pinky for just a few customers and I either do the drawings for them or dimensions and tolerances are all in the block description. This one I saw. 002 and just assumed since I always either work in one dimension at a time. And I have no problem working on a 6 or 8 inch shaft or a 6mm shaft. I can do either up to a point.

    The original quote I was thinking would have been at worst estimates $45 hour. I also told the customer to let me know on delivery times because that was going to affect price the customer never stated. This was for as open ended delivery. Most of my work sends to be on the lathe. I would have run these around other jobs for that price say a few dozen a week. I could have set 4 of my imaginary 6 INCH shafts up at a time on one mill and 2 on my small mill. I assumed the customer would send them in pallets or crates. Figuring my worst estimate of cutting time was just over 18 minutes which I know can be improved upon.

    As far as price the software I am using to calculate is always way off on timbre calculations. I know I can correct it but I tweak it on the machine.

    For that price it wasn't the only thing I was going to be working on. I figured about 18 possibly 24 a day. Throw singe on in the morning, at lunch add that afternoon. Or any other time I had to fool with it. If he wanted them quicker the price goes up.

    I know only being on person is a limiting factor, but I don't even know if I want the hastle of employees. I have the local votec that would like to send a student or 2 sometimes which I may start next year. The issue is trust. I don't want someone crashing my machines. I tried hiring someone a few months ago for a job. All they had to do was swap parts, check with a thread gauge and hit the green button. Just keep the machine running. Fired them in less than half a day. Either on phone, sleeping or whatever. That's a whole other discussion.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by cgmaster View Post
    Daym this thread really blew up.
    Welcome to the PM forum...lots of great info to be had here...and tons of un-requested opinions and answers to un-asked questions will be given...mine included.

    Its all good as as you get to hear from every side of the coin and in the end you always get what you pay for. And worth every penny.


    Quote Originally Posted by cgmaster View Post
    I saw mini output shaft but mini means different things to different people. Yeah I assumed. I retried as a ship captain so when someone says they are taking a big boat sometimes I assume wrong on that also lol.

    He here who has not assumed....lies.


    Its all relative...for me a "Big" boat prop shaft is 3" dia x 20'...a friends shop won't even touch anything that small.
    To me a small prop shaft is 1" dia...another buddy plays with small snail boats and for him he's used to 3/4" boat prop shafts...1" is a big shaft for him....all relative.


    Wanna laugh...I quoted a job for a customer some years ago. He quipped about the price...but gave me the job anyway as he was in a rush. He was supplying material.

    Tells me material will be in the next day, he had blanks cut to size. I clear out space for the material, get my large machine all set to run...UPS comes in with a box. I realize its from that customer, I open and there is a couple hundred little 3/8" square blocks inside....actually 10mm square blocks...I was expecting 10" squares.
    Drawing had no inch or mm spec written, no tolerances...I had spoken with customer over the phone and he was talking about 10 x 10 blocks with a couple holes and squared ends...holes needed to fit shafts freely...he never mentioned mm, metric...I never said inch, couple thousandths clearance...both assuming we went forward.

    Long story short, we did job, client was happy to receive a bit earlier then expected, very happy to see a lower then expected bill.

    I am real glad he supplied material...that would have been a very expensive mistake otherwise. One of us would not have been laughing so hard when it was over.


    Live and learn

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  9. #48
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    I think as far as communicating, face to face is the best, secondly a phone call, third place is e-mail, forth place is a text message, ha,ha. No hard feeling here, except for the obvious tough guy behind a keyboard types who a few of exist here. As for the OP, I apologize and should not have assumed he understood everything, maybe he never worked from napkin drawings or worked in a job shop where the owner drew up sketches with crayons. On the other hand he should have not started this thread without calling me first, so maybe we are both wrong. I am willing to say let us get a fresh start and I have more mill work to be quoted.

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    Aw, Now doesn't the kiss and make up part just gives yuh warm and fuzzy feelings for a Monday afternoon?



    -----------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    Aw, Now doesn't the kiss and make up part just gives yuh warm and fuzzy feelings for a Monday afternoon?



    -----------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox


    This business is tough enough...no need to be fighting within out little community.


    Or the completely selfish way of looking at things...every member here can be that golden ticket of knowledge come the next dilemma. Hard feelings and someone takes off...one less person in the pool to offer up with a solution.

    ...and nothing wrong with that warm and fuzzy feeling once in awhile.

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  15. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    Aw, Now doesn't the kiss and make up part just gives yuh warm and fuzzy feelings for a Monday afternoon?



    -----------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    No tongue !.....

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  17. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    Aw, Now doesn't the kiss and make up part just gives yuh warm and fuzzy feelings for a Monday afternoon?



    -----------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    Now if we could only get them to play this nicely in the Merica and Europe section lol.

  18. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    Aw, Now doesn't the kiss and make up part just gives yuh warm and fuzzy feelings for a Monday afternoon?



    -----------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    I am an admitted homophobe, how about we just shake hands and split a six pack.

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  20. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by chip_maker View Post
    Now if we could only get them to play this nicely in the Merica and Europe section lol.
    That's the cat box over there.
    Keeps the shit out of the rest of this great community.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 9100 View Post
    Philip Morrison described how his wife, Phyllis, generated a new weight system with no prior example. She made a simple balance and tried creek stones until she found two that matched. She then put both on one pan and tried stones until she found one that balanced with the two, then put that one on the pan with the first two and found one to match them. Continuing produced a set of standards in binary order.

    The Morrisons are high on the list of people I wish I could have known.

    While you are worrying about measurements systems, just be glad you do not have to work in Roman numerals where you need to work in fractions.

    Bill
    I once dated a girl...she could afford to lose a few...stone.


    Quote Originally Posted by PDW View Post
    The stupid part of this - and I *mean* stupid - is having a drawing in one measurement system and then specifying a tolerance in a completely different one AND NOT SAYING SO!

    Come on - that is idiotic, it's got nothing to do with mind-reading.

    PDW
    Wow, something like that will fly a spaceship straight into mars.

  23. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    Wow, something like that will fly a spaceship straight into mars.
    I thought about saying that but decided I'd just let it go through to the keeper......

    FWIW I don't resile one bit from what I said.

    PDW


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