Quoting Jobs and other tips for someone who is considering taking over a T&D shop
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    Default Quoting Jobs and other tips for someone who is considering taking over a T&D shop

    I have been toying with the idea of business ownership and I am not 100% sure if I want to or am even right for the task, which is okay I suppose. I am interested in exploring the idea and at least getting some general knowledge for quoting jobs and the management aspects of owning a business. I guess one can say get a feel for what actually happens and is expected in case an opportunity does come up.

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    I know what T&M is.
    I know what T&A is.

    What is T&D?


    -----------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    I know what T&M is.
    I know what T&A is.

    What is T&D?


    -----------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

    My WAG is he means Tool & Die?

    I'd much rather be in the T&A business.

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    Boy, that flew over the top.
    How'd I miss that?


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    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    I know what T&M is.
    I know what T&A is.

    What is T&D?


    -----------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    I meant tool and die. Probably should edit that.

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    How long have you been building dies for? Depending on size of tools you plan on building, it can be quite competitive. How much overhead do you have? If you have to outsource a lot of work, then your profit will evaporate quickly.

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    Unless you have a lot of experience in tool and die work, including bidding of jobs servicing the exact industries your new shop will have as customers, you have a financial disaster looking for a place to happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    Boy, that flew over the top.
    How'd I miss that?


    -----------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    Yeah, you're forgiven as you're new here aren't you

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    Quote Originally Posted by CITIZEN F16 View Post
    Unless you have a lot of experience in tool and die work, including bidding of jobs servicing the exact industries your new shop will have as customers, you have a financial disaster looking for a place to happen.
    Exactly what I am getting at. If you have no experience in the trade( I mean the actual tool and die trade, not just machining), then you are going to have a tough row to hoe. It is much more than just making parts. Design, build, tryout and troubleshoot in the press. Lots of things to overlook in the process, lots of places to lose a few grand here, and a few grand there, and all of a sudden you are paying money out of pocket at the end of a job. Breaking into the trade is tough, as most of us in the trade know the players in the area, and know who to call for work, and new people need to find a shop that isn't being fully served. When I started doing design only, 7 years ago, it took me 4 months of calling places on Friday afternoons to get my first job. Now I haven't had to look for work the last couple of years. It helps that I can do everything on site for design to finish build, save for die tryout, which I do at another local tool shop that I am friendly with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AJ H View Post
    My WAG is he means Tool & Die?

    I'd much rather be in the T&A business.
    I used to be in the T&A business. That's a REAL OT for another day..

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    The company itself has been around for decades, I believe it was started in the late 1940s? At the moment it is a small operation, but everything is done in house. From design to try out. Basically the die leaves the shop making good parts. Personally I have done a lot of the hands on, assembly, some try out, but not enough that I would feel confident enough to open a new shop. My main focus is on the CNC side, but I've grown used to taking assembly drawings, pulling my details out and I can judge what the critical dimensions are and where I can get away with, IE if a die block is not in a pocket or close to other details I don't have to worry about holding a tight tolerance. At the moment I am not so sure about the future and I am trying to take personal stock and see if I can't work on some weaker areas, like quoting a job and management skills. So if I do get an offer to buy the company, I want to be sure I can take a few steps to make things easier and avoid some mistakes that I would otherwise not have to make by not being prepared.

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    It will be a tough transition if you don't know most of the die business already. I would learn how to troubleshoot a die, and make it make a good part. That is the black magic that is Tool and die. It is one thing to make a bunch of parts to tight tolerance, but making them work as a unit is the important part. Knowing this type of stuff is what will give you the knowledge of quoting and managing a project. Otherwise there is a ton of things that will bite you. When I broke off on my own, I had spent 13 years learning how to do everything. Then I had to learn what everyone else did outside of the shop I worked at. Ideally if the opportunity comes up, you will be able to have either the owner or manager stay on to help you transition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Machine View Post
    It will be a tough transition if you don't know most of the die business already. I would learn how to troubleshoot a die, and make it make a good part. That is the black magic that is Tool and die. It is one thing to make a bunch of parts to tight tolerance, but making them work as a unit is the important part. Knowing this type of stuff is what will give you the knowledge of quoting and managing a project. Otherwise there is a ton of things that will bite you. When I broke off on my own, I had spent 13 years learning how to do everything. Then I had to learn what everyone else did outside of the shop I worked at. Ideally if the opportunity comes up, you will be able to have either the owner or manager stay on to help you transition.
    Good advice. I have tried to watch and learn when dies are assembled/troubleshot. Not always do I get the luxury. The bosses seem content to keep me on the mill, which does me not favors in the long run. But I do ask questions. I understand that a business needs to keep moving and in a small shop, the individual doesn't always get the right training.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DouglasJRizzo View Post
    I used to be in the T&A business. That's a REAL OT for another day..
    We like Stories.....and pix...lot's of pix...

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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckg7442 View Post
    I meant tool and die. Probably should edit that.

    It should certainly be fine here.
    I just had my head up my assets is all.

    Possibly thinking of T&A turned my mind into a train wreck?



    ----------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Quote Originally Posted by DouglasJRizzo View Post
    I used to be in the T&A business.
    Used to be?......................I thought us guys never went out of business?

    ...................being a man deeply in love with his wife, I'll always be in the T&A biz with her..........

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    Quote Originally Posted by david n View Post
    Used to be?......................I thought us guys never went out of business?

    ...................being a man deeply in love with his wife, I'll always be in the T&A biz with her..........
    Some guys, when they hit 52 decide to switch teams. Must be a prostate exam thing. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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