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Rebuilding the Domestic Metal Supply Chain

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Read the article.

We need to continue tariffs. Outsourcing bad---manufacturing needs to return to the U.S.

China bad. Competes unfairly.

Seems we heard most of what is discussed in the article from the last guy in the White House.

Guess those metal association guys are really smart.
 
Read the article.

We need to continue tariffs. Outsourcing bad---manufacturing needs to return to the U.S.

China bad. Competes unfairly.

Seems we heard most of what is discussed in the article from the last guy in the White House.
Yup, all simplistic bullshit that has nothing to do with facts.

Guess those metal association guys are really smart.
Follow the money. Same guys were all gung-ho on outsourcing and globalization twenty years ago. Whatever trend puts more cash in their pockets today is what they peddle.

Too bad just about every statement they made runs counter to the facts. Guess that never stopped people who believe in fantasy novels :(
 
Yup, all simplistic bullshit that has nothing to do with facts.


agreed, nor anything to do with sound economics. When I read getting manufacturing back my eyes roll, here we go...

1) manufacturing output in the US is a high as it ever was (at lease pre Covid, who knows at the moment), so what exactly are you expecting to accomplish?

2) nobody cares about getting manufacturing jobs back, what they want back are high paying low skill jobs. Right? But that's not going to happen. Like in American Factory, they got the jobs back but at $13/h and it still was problematic vs overseas competition.

You could fake it with tariffs, but what do you think happens then? Aside from the industry owners getting rich, if tariffs created higher price and wages so cost go up through out the supply chain...whats the price of a car or toaster now? All you are doing is hacking away at your standard of living to appease some simpleton's politician belief. In fact you retard your standard of living by not taking advantage of low cost labour in other counties - they're subsidizing you! i.e. if everyone in the world made the same wage (or you made everything domestically at high domestic wages), your standard of living would drop dramatically.
 
agreed, nor anything to do with sound economics. When I read getting manufacturing back my eyes roll, here we go...

1) manufacturing output in the US is a high as it ever was (at lease pre Covid, who knows at the moment), so what exactly are you expecting to accomplish?

2) nobody cares about getting manufacturing jobs back, what they want back are high paying low skill jobs. Right? But that's not going to happen. Like in American Factory, they got the jobs back but at $13/h and it still was problematic vs overseas competition.

You could fake it with tariffs, but what do you think happens then? Aside from the industry owners getting rich, if tariffs created higher price and wages so cost go up through out the supply chain...whats the price of a car or toaster now? Algl you are doing is hacking away at your standard of living to appease some simpleton's politician belief. In fact you retard your standard of living by not taking advantage of low cost labour in other counties - they're subsidizing you! i.e. if everyone in the world made the same wage (or you made everything domestically at high domestic wages), your standard of living would drop dramatically.

....Without tariffs steel and aluminum will be "dumped" on the market at low prices and massive quantities.

Screw the tariffs. Why protect the manufacturers as they outsource every job they can. So paragraph #2 is true..."nobody cares about bringing manufacturing jobs back".
 
....Without tariffs steel and aluminum will be "dumped" on the market at low prices and massive quantities.

Screw the tariffs. Why protect the manufacturers as they outsource every job they can. So paragraph #2 is true..."nobody cares about bringing manufacturing jobs back".

As long as we can follow the same global warming rules as those countries doo....
 
How about they follow our pollution laws or we tax them the difference. In case you have not noticed its abnormally hot out and on fire.....

As for tarrifs, if you tax imports local producers jack up the price and keep the profits. They don't put a nickel back into the plant. Change the tax laws, if you jack up your price to equal your import competitors then we tax you at 100% of the profit. Put the money back into your plant!
 
As long as we can follow the same global warming rules as those countries doo....

Hmmm, more than half of global coal consumption is now in China. Meanwhile global warming’s effects are here now. A small city in neighbor province just got wiped off the map by a warming caused fire. The snowpack that farmers and others need from the mountains has mostly melted in one week months earlier than usual.

I’m not political but I’m starting to really dislike a country that only thinks of itself.

L7
 
How about they follow our pollution laws or we tax them the difference. In case you have not noticed its abnormally hot out and on fire.....

As for tarrifs, if you tax imports local producers jack up the price and keep the profits. They don't put a nickel back into the plant. Change the tax laws, if you jack up your price to equal your import competitors then we tax you at 100% of the profit. Put the money back into your plant!

"change the tax laws"...Don't hold your breath in that one.
 
Hmmm, more than half of global coal consumption is now in China. Meanwhile global warming’s effects are here now. A small city in neighbor province just got wiped off the map by a warming caused fire.

I’m not political but I’m starting to really dislike a country that only thinks of itself.

"warming caused fire"??
 
"warming caused fire"??

Absolutely. A spark from lightning, or a passing train etc. at 70deg F and normal humidity is much less likely to cause a fire, or if it does is easily controlled. Have a heat dome like NW US and western Canadian provinces have had for last three weeks including record temps greater than 110deg F for days on end, 0% humidity and you get extreme fires. This is human caused global warming. Not some abstract concern for the future- it’s here now. And worsening yearly. A guy can put his head in the (warming) sand, but it is reality.

I don’t think we in North America can quickly get off oil and gas consumption. Not sure we should. But we can certainly decrease greenhouse gas causing coal use and we have been doing exactly this in North America. China is increasing. Coal burning now is the greatest cause of global warming. And China uses more than half of total coal consumption world wide. Call it what it is: poisoning our globe.

A town named Lytton BC is now gone. Three days in a row of record temps (over 45deg C), zero humidity, and high winds and it’s now gone.

L7
 
Absolutely. A spark from lightning, or a passing train etc. at 70deg F and normal humidity is much less likely to cause a fire, or if it does is easily controlled. Have a heat dome like NW US and western Canadian provinces have had for last three weeks including record temps greater than 110deg F for days on end, 0% humidity and you get extreme fires. This is human caused global warming. Not some abstract concern for the future- it’s here now. And worsening yearly. A guy can put his head in the (warming) sand, but it is reality.

I don’t think we in North America can quickly get off oil and gas consumption. Not sure we should. But we can certainly decrease greenhouse gas causing coal use and we have been doing exactly this in North America. China is increasing. Coal burning now is the greatest cause of global warming. And China uses more than half of total coal consumption world wide. Call it what it is: poisoning our globe.

A town named Lytton BC is now gone. Three days in a row of record temps (over 45deg C), zero humidity, and high winds and it’s now gone.

L7

Yeah, I read about Lytton. PM had one or two members that lost shops a year or two ago in wildfires in the Western United States.

Realistically I doubt politicians will inhibit China's coal consumption, so China's use of coal and it's impact on Global Warming won't see any change. About all that can be done is mitigate the threat of wildfires.

The end game is punishing China or any other country that uses coal...right? Not going to happen.

So back to steel and aluminum. Which in the case of aluminum Canada benefits from electricity produced by hydro and no import tariffs on aluminum coming into the U.S. from Cananda. Of course there is that pesky detail regarding foreign ownership (partial?) of aluminum production in Canada, or most anywhere else.

So, screw tariffs let 'em dump as much cheap aluminum and steel into the U.S. marketplace as the want.
 
Get on board comrades we're Building Back Better!
Well, except for pipelines and self sustainable private sector jobs...

Small FYI that Lytton fire was likely started by a train, the same trains we use to carry oil and made in China stuff.
Also pretty funny that although globally we burnt 9% Less oil in 2020(about 9 Million Barrels less per day) it apparently had zero effect on diminishing 2021's man made climate change...
 
Get on board comrades we're Building Back Better!
Well, except for pipelines and self sustainable private sector jobs...

Small FYI that Lytton fire was likely started by a train, the same trains we use to carry oil and made in China stuff.
Also pretty funny that although globally we burnt 9% Less oil in 2020(about 9 Million Barrels less per day) it apparently had zero effect on diminishing 2021's man made climate change...


"Build Back Better"......Campaign slogans come and go. Wash-Rinse-Repeat
 
agreed, nor anything to do with sound economics. When I read getting manufacturing back my eyes roll, here we go...
1) manufacturing output in the US is a high as it ever was (at lease pre Covid, who knows at the moment), so what exactly are you expecting to accomplish?

2) nobody cares about getting manufacturing jobs back, what they want back are high paying low skill jobs. Right? But that's not going to happen. Like in American Factory, they got the jobs back but at $13/h and it still was problematic vs overseas competition.

You could fake it with tariffs, but what do you think happens then? Aside from the industry owners getting rich, if tariffs created higher price and wages so cost go up through out the supply chain...whats the price of a car or toaster now? All you are doing is hacking away at your standard of living to appease some simpleton's politician belief. In fact you retard your standard of living by not taking advantage of low cost labour in other counties - they're subsidizing you! i.e. if everyone in the world made the same wage (or you made everything domestically at high domestic wages), your standard of living would drop dramatically.



What sort of measuring stick are you using with that comment?

The 3 highest volume industries that consumed the highest amounts of raw material, were almost stricken from the shores of North America almost overnight in 2001.

Cold Heading
Stamping
and Screw machining

These are all very highly efficient processes that make a LOT of goods, and consume in the ballpark of 50% of the finished parts value in raw material, thus with China producing steel cheaper than the NA market, along with their cheaper labor, they can blow us out of the water on these high volume processes.

I understand that you personally are [not], and likely were not involved in any of these fields, and that any low volume fab work is for the most part is still intact (your field) but to think of all the jobs that were lost when those 3 industries walked away, and the infrastructure (equipment related to) that became scrap value overnight from this move....

With the 3 highest volume fields almost wiped off the continent, I'm not sure how you are claiming that we make as much as we used to pre 2001?


--------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 
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Hmmm, more than half of global coal consumption is now in China. Meanwhile global warming’s effects are here now.
Yes, they burn coal instead of oil. Ooooh, big difference. Oxidation-reduction, burning oil instead of coal does not magically make the CO2 go away.

The other small item you are missing is the number of people involved. I'm not going to go hunt up figures but pretty sure you'll find that per capita the US is a far greater waster of all forms of energy than anyone else on the planet.

Another item you are conveniently ignoring in your finger-pointing session is that the government of China is spending billions on both research and practical applications of wind and solar, while electric vehicles vastly outnumber what the US and others are doing in that area. It's quite entertaining to hear the same people who scream and moan about electric vehicles and "Solyndra ! Solyndra !" suddenly getting all green (as long as they can claim the slant-eye bogeyman is less green than themselves. Otherwise it's drill, baby, drill ! Salmon ? Trees ? Tundra ? fuck 'em, we need jobs and growth !)

I’m not political but I’m starting to really dislike a country that only thinks of itself.
That would be the US, you're talking about ?

Ox said:
... thus with China producing steel cheaper than the NA market, along with their cheaper labor, they can blow us out of the water on these high volume processes.
It's not the labor. Honest. And the regulatory overhead dwarfs what the US has. The difference is more fundamental ... the tax code. What the government wants. Government of China wants employment and they do what it takes to achieve that goal. Government of the US wants the 1% to have everything, so they do what it takes to achieve that goal. Chinese people do not work nearly as hard as Americans. Put productivity into the equation and it's no longer "low cost labor".

I understand that you personally are, and likely were not involved in any of these fields, and that any low volume fab work is for the most part is still intact (your field) but to think of all the jobs that were lost when those 3 industries walked away, and the infrastructure (equipment related to) that became scrap value overnight from this move....
Sure, but you guys all love the 'competition' meme. It was fine when the competition was a bunch of destroyed countries but now that others are just as good or better, competition is not so good ? Go attack someone in an alley, then when he pulls a gun squeak that "It's unfair !" You start a fight, whatever comes next is what it is.

With the 3 highest volume fields almost wiped off the continent, I'm not sure how you are claiming that we make as much as we used to pre 2001?
Dunno, but I trust Reiss'es numbers more than these dorks. They don't match in any way, shape or form.

Sorry but these magazines have been peddling bullshit since I was twently. I used to believe it. Not no more, with age comes cynicism ?
 
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