Comp Time Instead Of Overtime

What do you folks think of this:

Working Families Flexibility Act Passes House Over Opposition Of Democrats, Labor

I hope the machinists read this and comment too. The guide lines for General do not seem to allow for this type of discussion.

Paul

Well, it will never pass according to the article. Dems won't let it fly. Fine by me. I like my OT. Heck, a lot of folks just need it to make enough to live on. What the hell are the republicans thinking??? I swear, both parties seem hell bent on destroying this country. The repubicans want to send you to the poorhouse and the dummy craps want to hold the door open for you.

I didn't see/missed the part in the article on how the comp time would be accrued, is it 1hr ot = 1hr comp time or 1hr ot = 1.5hr comp time?

So, it's OK for the federal workers, but not for the rest of us?

We don't all have to work our entire lives to get by. Some of us would like the OPTION of comp time.

What's wrong with that?

I could see how it would help small shops like mine. Sometimes we're real busy and I could really use the guys to work overtime. Sometimes we're a little slow and the guys are doing cleanup around the shop to try to stay busy, and sometimes I have to send them home early. Comp time would help smooth out the schedule. What ends up happening is I will hold off on overtime until the last minute to try to keep a backlog so everyone stays busy. Sometimes this backfires though because I might get a little too far behind and miss out on a job with a short lead time.

The drawback would be during the slow times when the guys are off and collecting their comp time I wouldn't have much revenue coming in. And I prefer to not owe anyone if I can help it so squaring up for all hours worked each pay period just seems like the right thing to do.

I generally don't like the idea. Time off would be great, but I have a problem with someone holding that much of my money. Bankruptcys happen as does the explanation that "right now I just don't have the money". I also try to make sure I get no refund at tax time. Like the commercial said, "ITS MY MONEY AND I WANT IT NOW". Another problem for me is "busy time" for manufacturing. Spring and summer brings OT, winter is usually slower, so I dont want to work my butt off during "fun time" so I can have time off in the winter. Just my opinion.

Smalltime asshole,

You DO realize that Fed employees are on Salary, per year kind of schedule, the people you either work with, or have working FOR you, are hourly, or those you say you supervise are.

Good question, above, I earn time and a half, if I work, do I get 12 working hours Comp Time, for OT? All the Management at the 3 Mills I have worked at were Salary, required to work JUST so much OT, to be paid by time off. Did they hve to work even longer hours, a major outage, extra pay

Were I still working, I think I would prefer to be paid for it, than to work for free, and have an extra half day of free time per month. Love might make the World go round, but money greases the wheels.

This comes to getting 2080 hours per year out of you, and NONE of it is OT. You are cheap labor, period, not as though already were not.

George

Edster,

You don't seem to be making much sense, here. In some ways you like it, in some sense you don't. You like that you can overwork them when you are busy, promise time off in the future, when you are not busy enough, BUT, when you are not busy, you don't have the income to PAY them for all that anticipated make up time.

Sounds like the gist of what you wrote.

On re-read, you don't understand the concept.

"I could see how it would help small shops like mine. Sometimes we're real busy and I could really use the guys to work overtime. Sometimes we're a little slow and the guys are doing cleanup around the shop to try to stay busy, and sometimes I have to send them home early. Comp time would help smooth out the schedule. What ends up happening is I will hold off on overtime until the last minute to try to keep a backlog so everyone stays busy. Sometimes this backfires though because I might get a little too far behind and miss out on a job with a short lead time.

Comp time, you DO realize is, or should be, and I do not know the ins and outs of the Bill,, PAID time off. So they could be sweeping your shop for 9 bucks an hour, or drinking beer at 9 bucks an hour.

How could you possibly miss a job with a short lead time. If there is money to be made, juggle jobs, unless you are a one man shop, and you indicate you are not.

Regardless, I have worked long turns, over 12 hours, 6 months of it in one run to shut down the Westinghouse, for instance. I had 4 days off, in those 6 months, Thanksgiving. Tuesday before Christmas, Christmas Eve and Day. I was out of there 5 days later, but, hey, I was awarded a Longines watch, which company we owned, for my good work cleaning the joint out. I got paid OT of course, I had LOTS of off time coming.

This bill is going to fuck the workingman, if it ever does come to fruition, and it will be back. House is Rep, and they are truly in the back pocket of Business. Must be why so many of you peons ARE Republicans. You are IN "bidness", you make 30 or so thou per year, yet you think you should vote for the Rich .

Rich, I would like to inform you, do NOT put up bills, millions of dollars of "graft" or promise of "funds", for the next election, try to sway them to vote for ANYTHING that benefits the peons, you included, and ME. They buy the jackasses we elect, the "lesser of 2 evils " both bought and paid for by rich people, though there do seem to be 2 different sorts OF rich people, Romney's type, and Bush II, all for me and mine, and those such as Soros, Gates, Buffet, "Should we NOT pay more?"

But all you paupers insist you are being escorted to the poorhouse.

Edster said:

I could see how it would help small shops like mine. Sometimes we're real busy and I could really use the guys to work overtime. Sometimes we're a little slow and the guys are doing cleanup around the shop to try to stay busy, and sometimes I have to send them home early. Comp time would help smooth out the schedule. What ends up happening is I will hold off on overtime until the last minute to try to keep a backlog so everyone stays busy. Sometimes this backfires though because I might get a little too far behind and miss out on a job with a short lead time.

The drawback would be during the slow times when the guys are off and collecting their comp time I wouldn't have much revenue coming in. And I prefer to not owe anyone if I can help it so squaring up for all hours worked each pay period just seems like the right thing to do.

Click to expand...

Only way this can work in practice is if you literally bank the comp time money, hour for hour, in a trust account every time it's accrued and only draw against it when someone takes the time.

Any other way is a recipe for a disaster.

I frankly wouldn't trust any small business person to do this because if things were tight it'd be too easy to dip into the money, and as soon as the extra hours are done, it's *not your money to touch*.

OT seems a lot simpler as everyone knows exactly where they stand.

I've worked under the 'comp time' thing as a salaried manager and let me say that *getting* the time back can be difficult - I had my supervisor tell me that the agreement didn't specify hour for hour so I shouldn't be doing it that way. I told him that it certainly didn't specify and personally I thought 2:1 would be a lot fairer. He wasn't willing to push it to HR to determine one way or the other which told me where he thought the decision would go, but - he certainly tried it on.

PDW

Did any of you guys read the bill? Its linked to in the comments of the OP's article.

First off, its the employees choice, so that's good. (if the employer will let you bank time)

You get 1.5 hours of time off for time banked.

You can request to get paid your banked time, but it looks like you only get it back at straight rate.
There is a limit on how much you can bank per year and it has to be cleared (paid to you) every 12
month period at your highest hourly rate of pay.

To the good side, if you only earn a week of Vaca per year and want to take a 3 week vacation, its good.

If you bank a bunch of time and are refused the time off, then you get screwed.

Seems to me to be basically a non-issue, just something for people to get their panties in a wad about.

Under the FLSA comp-time must be taken in the payperiod acrued.

This bill simply changes that law to allow it to be taken any time within a year.

A federal employee can take it anytime within 26 months.

Bobw said:

Did any of you guys read the bill? Its linked to in the comments of the OP's article.

First off, its the employees choice, so that's good. (if the employer will let you bank time)

You get 1.5 hours of time off for time banked.

You can request to get paid your banked time, but it looks like you only get it back at straight rate.
There is a limit on how much you can bank per year and it has to be cleared (paid to you) every 12
month period at your highest hourly rate of pay.

To the good side, if you only earn a week of Vaca per year and want to take a 3 week vacation, its good.

If you bank a bunch of time and are refused the time off, then you get screwed.

Seems to me to be basically a non-issue, just something for people to get their panties in a wad about.

Click to expand...

If you work 30 hours of OT it counts as 45 hours of time off or 45 hours of pay.

So lets say you make $20 per hour. Your OT rate would be $30 per hour

$20 x 45hours = $900 or $30 x 30hours = $900 no cash lost there.

Also it says that

‘(A) GENERAL RULE- If compensation is to be paid to an employee for accrued compensatory time off, such compensation shall be paid at a rate of compensation not less than--

‘(i) the regular rate received by such employee when the compensatory time was earned; or

‘(ii) the final regular rate received by such employee,

So say you earn 50 hours in May at $20 per hour and get a raise to $22 per hour in June and you decide you cash out you get all your accumulated time at your highest pay rate.

It seems like a good idea, except that it may encourage employers to stop offering paid time off.

Also I wonder is if you take 40 hours of comp time do you get paid for that week, or are you just working for unpaid time off? If its the latter, then that's a shit deal.

Smalltime asshole,

You DO realize that Fed employees are on Salary, per year kind of schedule, the people you either work with, or have working FOR you, are hourly, or those you say you supervise are.

Click to expand...

George (insert insult here)

It makes no difference if you're salary or hourly, it works the same way. Why not have the OPTION?

andywire said:

Well, it will never pass according to the article. Dems won't let it fly. Fine by me. I like my OT. Heck, a lot of folks just need it to make enough to live on. What the hell are the republicans thinking??? I swear, both parties seem hell bent on destroying this country. The repubicans want to send you to the poorhouse and the dummy craps want to hold the door open for you.

Click to expand...

I'm reading this a little differently and maybe 'cause I'm not an American

You (and the "you" is many more than just you) need overtime to have a livable existance? If a wage isn't enough for a normal living standard then something is very, very wrong. Of course any company can come in the situation where overtime is necessary (and that's good) but working overtime to make a livable wage and keep others unemployed isn't my idea of a harmonic society.

I enjoy working and it gives me purpose but what it also gives me is being able to have both time for my family and take vacations. Think long and hard about what your kids will remember - was dad (or mum) there when needed or gone most of the time making a wage he or she thought would make us happier?

Gordon

What is the American dream?

The potential problem I see with this is that "Joe" works some OT but it is never convenient for the company to let him use his comp time. So without the ability to roll it over from one year to the next, he is forced to cash out at straight time. You know it will happen....alot.

omrc7771 said:

The potential problem I see with this is that "Joe" works some OT but it is never convenient for the company to let him use his comp time. So without the ability to roll it over from one year to the next, he is forced to cash out at straight time. You know it will happen....alot.

Click to expand...

Right! Not to be taken on any of the national holidays, no more than so many % of the men in a department can be off at the same time, or any of a multitude of other reasons.

Gordon B. Clarke said:

I'm reading this a little differently and maybe 'cause I'm not an American

You (and the "you" is many more than just you) need overtime to have a livable existance? If a wage isn't enough for a normal living standard then something is very, very wrong. Of course any company can come in the situation where overtime is necessary (and that's good) but working overtime to make a livable wage and keep others unemployed isn't my idea of a harmonic society.

I enjoy working and it gives me purpose but what it also gives me is being able to have both time for my family and take vacations. Think long and hard about what your kids will remember - was dad (or mum) there when needed or gone most of the time making a wage he or she thought would make us happier?

Gordon

What is the American dream?

Click to expand...

Single income earner here, no dependents. Last job I had paid $12.50/hr. I had about 1 year experience in the machining trade when I started, so I guess it was ok. Worked 60 hours a week minimum, along with most of the other workers. Yes, I needed the OT to get by. Actually, I did pretty good, netting about 45K that year, but I don't think I would want to raise a family on that kind of a schedule. Many of the other guys there complained about money, had kid, but worked all the OT because it was needed. If the owned a house, they certainly weren't saving much for retirement. There are tons of production plants around like this.

It's important to realize, the average income in America today for a single income earner is around 27K. On 40 hours a week, that comes out to be around $15/hr. 2 income earning family units earn something around 50K. Average paid vacation time is 2 week/year after one year of employment at the company. Employer provided insurance is extremely expensive, and I'm sure the ranks of the insured are dropping as a result.

Conservatives like to say our standard of living and expectations were too high 20 years ago. Libs like to suggest standard of livings should only improve, and never digress. I say I'm probably working harder and longer for the same thing compared to what the past generation experienced. With all this highly productive equipment we have today, we are more productive than ever. Ironically, we seem to be paid less, enjoy less job security, and the concept of retirement is in grave danger.

Thankfully, I have a better job now and require far less OT to make the same money. Certainly not getting rich in a high COL city, but getting by comfortably. I don't have an "I got mine" attitude though. The American dream is on life support. By all measures, it is not nearly as accessible as it was 30 years ago. It's almost like the wild west in the employment world today. Donno how it's going to end, but I sure don't see too many 1st worlders immigrating to America these days.

I've got the option for comp time, I like having the option. What it amounts to for me: is additional time off to use during a normal workday. Lately, I've been using my banked time to take care of doctor visits for my parents. It also comes in handy for scheduling dentist/doctor visits during daylight hours on anyday rather than trying to vie for a few select available appointment time slots available after 5pm. All comp time taken is cleared with the supervisor ahead of time. It also means I get paid my base rate every two weeks wether I've put in a full 80 or not (used comp time).

As it relates to a small shop, I can see a problem with comp time. Who will take up the slack if its routinely busy for everyone? I work for a large place, If I am not there it might inconvenience someone, but it won't bring things to a halt.

Alex.

"You DO realize that Fed employees are on Salary, per year kind of schedule, the people you either work with, or have working FOR you, are hourly, or those you say you supervise are."

gmatov, you DO realize that not all federal employees are on salary. I am a fed employee and am paid hourly, with the option if I work it of being paid overtime or comptime. you need to do a little more research before you make a statment like that.

It will work like this, you will be asked on Friday to work three hours overtime...you will be home late and piss off the wife. Or if you ride with someone else you will miss your ride and have to make other arrangements, either way you will not be paid overtime for this time. On Tuesday afternoon your boss will tell you that work is slow so take off early. You will get home with nothing to do but mow the grass and the wife will be pissed that you didnt arrange to spend time with her as she was still at work.

When you get to take the time off is at the convenience of the employer not you. Sometimes this will work out to your advantage but most of the time it will not. Your employer gets to use your labor when he needs you and when he can cut you loose he does so at his convenience.

When you work late and piss off the wife for ruining her planned dinner schedule and make overtime money for it then you can use the extra money to take the wife and or kids out, or save the money for something else. If you are not paid overtime and then get time off you will be sitting at the house earning nothing.

Over time is a penalty for your employer to make sure he schedules work to be done at scheduled times and to make sure he has enough employees to get the job done without having to pay overtime. Take that away and your employer now can use you as flexibly as he wants and you get to sit back and take it whether you like it or not.

I think about those times in maintenance when I worked long weekends to fix a machine or reconfigure a conveyor. I got paid handsomely for the extra effort and loosing my weekend and when I did get time off that was extra play money for me at the time. Now of course my employer will not pay me any extra and to pay back my overtime work he will just cut me loose an hour or two each week until that time is paid back. Of course it wont be the same time or day as he might need me for something so I cant really plan my time off.

And suppose he banks your overtime all summer when things are busy and then over the winter he just lets you sit at home for three weeks. How will it feel sitting at home for three weeks without pay? A time when that extra overtime money would have been used to buy extra presents for the family or a better vacation?

Now in some areas you might make this work to your advantage but most people will not.

Charles

Here in Ontario overtime does not need to be paid at time and a half till after 44hrs. Any time you bank overtime it is supposed to be paid at the same rate as you would be paid if you were not banking it but lots of companies don't follow the rules re banking and occasionally allow employees to bank at reg time.

I worked for a company where WE were able to bank our OT at 1.5time and OT was paid after 40 hrs. There was never any pressure to bank time. Most of us had time banked which was handy if you had a doctors appointment or any other reason you needed a day off mid week. I took an extra week of holidays at least one year I worked there.