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Thread: Safety Boots?

  1. #21
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    As others have said, there are deeper issues with this guy than just safety shoes. Employees with really bad attitudes are corrosive to morale. They generally get worse as time goes by. That "it's not my fault" attitude is dangerous enough in an office environment, but can be really bad around machinery. Prisons and jails are full of that personality type because their "screw everybody" mentality leads to a lifetime of breaking rules. You would be well advised to send him packing before he causes real harm. I would also advise being very careful when you tell him - don't be alone with him or turn your back on him, and take security precautions for a while after he's gone. He may well have a penchant for retaliation against those who have "wronged" him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by antique lathe View Post
    I am not sticking up for the guy, just want to make an observation. Years ago in the shop where my dad worked. They required steel toe boots. I remember my dad telling me about guys losing there toes. When something heavy falls, the steel toe acts like a anvil and cuts the toes off. I do not ware steel toed boots. Yes, I have had things fall on me. But when I did have to go to the hospital. The nurse and doctor said it was a good thing I did not have steel toed boots on.
    It is better to have a smashed foot, then have no toes. They said it makes it very hard to walk without toes. They balance your body. I know OSHA has alot of rules. But some need to be a personal choice.
    The OSHA rule does not require steel toe.

    Our rule (in a major size US shop) steel toe recommended but leather required.

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    Quote Originally Posted by happydude View Post
    Poor guy needs a job so badly when we first met him - he was the nicest dude you could find. Two weeks in, and he's fighting with everyone in the shop (including the small office girl who hardly speaks to him) and constantly blaming others for the pieces he's ***ing up. I feel sorry for the guy, but this whole safety thing is about to bite me in the ass.
    The guy has a serious "its not my fault" problem. Several times he makes mistakes and always claims its "not his fault" and has a serious attitude issue. We hired him because he wanted to learn - but when we try to teach him he's belligerent and completely painful to talk to.
    Can you fire him within 90 days ?

    Sounds like a pathalogicall liar.

    And the fact you let him loose in your shop, does a dis-service to
    all the other long time employees there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by happydude View Post
    Poor guy needs a job so badly when we first met him - he was the nicest dude you could find. Two weeks in, and he's fighting with everyone in the shop (including the small office girl who hardly speaks to him) and constantly blaming others for the pieces he's ***ing up. I feel sorry for the guy, but this whole safety thing is about to bite me in the ass.
    The guy has a serious "its not my fault" problem. Several times he makes mistakes and always claims its "not his fault" and has a serious attitude issue. We hired him because he wanted to learn - but when we try to teach him he's belligerent and completely painful to talk to.

    Steel toes come looking pretty normal now, I'm pretty sure I saw some that even look like nice fancy dress shoes I wear with a suit.
    Wow... It might be dangerous to fire that guy.. I know a fixer down on 8 mile who can fix anything for a price.

    Just kidding... or not. He is probably locked up so just forget I said that.

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    I know a fixer down on 8 mile who can fix anything for a price.
    I used to know that guy.

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    Get yourself a 30 pound sledge and tell everyone you are implementing a daily steel toe test. Either he will wear them or leave.

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    I agree with most everyone here that you have cause to fire the guy. Seems pretty lame that he is willing to lose a job over something so basic......and something he knew was required prior to accepting the job. One thing we have done is buy a set of those safety toe caps that go over your shoes.....they are way uncomfortable and look stupid as hell. When guys dont have their boots with them.....no problem.....we whip those things out and tell him to put them on and get to work...or punch out for the day with no pay. They usually remember their boots the next day

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    Sounds like you are experiencing the tip of a very bad iceberg. I have had "that guy" in my shop working for me. About 2 weeks. What you experience now is nothing as to what will follow. Maybe hard to find a good man, even harder to find a shop full.

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    @antiquelathe:

    Mythbusters did an episode on the risks of amputation due to steel toes. Here's the annotated version:

    Annotated Mythbusters: Episode 42: Steel Toe Amputation, Bottle Rocket Blast Off

    If you have Amazon Prime you can watch it here for free:

    Amazon.com: MythBusters: Season 4, Episode 3 "Steel Toe Amputation": Amazon Instant Video

    Youtube wants to charge you $2:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQSGLkUGuxA

    Their conclusion? Busted!

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    Each province in Canada has slightly different rules but here in Ontario you can fire him fairly easily in the first 90 days. After that it gets more difficult I would make sure you document all the issues and maybe give him a written warning on the steel toes and abusing other employees. If you think you want to can him do it before 90 days, even though you probably have enough to fire him "with cause". Even if the Ministry of Labour does not require steel toes you can establish stricter safety rules and fire him for not following them.

    If the guy is poisoning the work environment with his attitude I think it is very important to get rid of him NOW. His attitude over time will infect other employees or piss them off enough for them to leave. The shoes are a good excuse to fire him.

    I heard an interview with the author of this book and he made a lot of sense The No Asshole Rule - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Last edited by Pattnmaker; 02-04-2014 at 02:00 PM. Reason: Added book link

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    Thank you ! Very interesting. Learn something everyday.

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    You should have a written comany safety program that is mandatory for him to read and sign to record stating he has read, understood and will comply with all company policy regarding safety. A verbal warning. A written warning. A "You are fired" check. ........Next! Ciao.

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    He's only been here for 2 weeks and is increasingly belligerent. The safety boots are something I strongly believe in, as I have many years of experience in this type of workplace and this is something quite basic that everyone else is happy to comply with. Either way, I believe I have cause to fire him since he's on a "trial" period and not past 90 days. Just a little annoyed since finding someone to work is a pain in the ass.

    Its like all the skilled labor in Canada is gone....

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    Steel toed boots are way more comfortable now than they were when I first started wearing them. I've worn out quite a few pairs, and have worn most brands. My latest pair is made by Keen, and is light years ahead of anything else I've worn comfort-wise.

    I wouldn't tolerate such blatant insubordination. This guy's issues seem to be deeper rooted than the safety shoe issue.

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    He's your employee, if he doesn't follow your rules, fire him. If he protests, don't give him his paycheck.
    You should have a sign with your safety rules posted on the door to your shop, so you can't help but look at it. Or on every machine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by happydude View Post
    I always make sure everyone wears steel toed boots, (even the office girl!) as it's part of our safety guidelines.
    At our large corp facility (non-union), any Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) deemed mandatory by management must be furnished to the employee free of charge. This includes safety glasses, gloves, respirators, etc.

    We just recently were required to wear steel toe shoe / boots and they gave us a $100 voucher per year for boots of our choice. Any boots you chose that were more expensive than the $100, you coughed up the difference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by happydude View Post
    Hi I'm new here and wanted to ask any other shop owners if they got an opinion on what I should do.

    I recently hired a new CNC machinist who refuses to wear steel toed boots to work. I've warned him twice about this and I'm thinking I need to get this guy to sign a waiver or something. The pieces he works on are heavy and large - we don't work on very many small jobs.
    It's a small shop (as in employee number, not size) and I always make sure everyone wears steel toed boots, (even the office girl!) as it's part of our safety guidelines.

    How do I deal with this guy?

    Thanks!
    Happydude
    Boot allowance is pretty standard in any shop in Alberta that isn't a dump, do you have one? It floats around 80-100 bucks

    Quote Originally Posted by happydude View Post
    Its like all the skilled labor in Canada is gone....
    Its expensive in Alberta, you have to compete with shops that are paying 35+ bucks an hour for journeyman. Not including bonuses and bennies. Are you being competitive in wages?

  26. #38
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    Send him home to "To think about it for awhile"

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    i would say wear them or leave, thats the rule i follow where i work. You can call me crazy I have been wearing a good brand steel toe boot for just about 40 years (can't believe I'm old enought to say that) I have seen more toes saved than damaged by steel toe including my own,,, i am so used to them and they are so comfortable i wear them outside of work, i take the 100$ buck from work and kick in another 100$ plus for a good pair

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    Quote Originally Posted by hickstick_10 View Post
    Boot allowance is pretty standard in any shop in Alberta that isn't a dump, do you have one? It floats around 80-100 bucks



    Its expensive in Alberta, you have to compete with shops that are paying 35+ bucks an hour for journeyman. Not including bonuses and bennies. Are you being competitive in wages?

    Its not that he doesnt have boots, he just doesn't want to wear them out of comfort. We haven't needed the "boot allowance" for a long time as most people we hire have this already. We provide, glasses, hearing aids, and uniforms (different types from the lab coat style to the coverall).

    We are pretty competitive, we'll pay upwards to 35/hr plus the standard bonuses and benefits like coverage for health care, and vacation pay.
    We are also a pretty small shop with a bit of flexible work time, we'll allow guys to come in 10-20mins late and not be bothered by it.

    For the non-experienced machinists we'll pay from 17 to xxx with aggressive pay raises if they pick up the skills fast. We give one on one time training if the guy is willing to learn.
    So far, everyone wants to "monkey push the green button". lame.

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