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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhajicek View Post
    40PSI will take longer to do any job than 125PSI, and you're paying for that time. If it takes a couple seconds more to blow chips, you're maybe breaking even maybe not. If it fails to blow a chip from jaws or fixture and ruins a part, you've just lost way more than you saved.
    You use air to blow off the machine ? Eeeeeuw

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    Quote Originally Posted by garyhlucas View Post
    When I was promoted to plant manager the first day I had somebody fix 1 air leak that I had listened to for over a year.
    Two months later the lady paying the electric bill tells me it dropped from $600 a month to $300! I told her it would drop even more when I got the 3 hp compressor running instead of using the 25 hp all the time.

    Certainly not saying that _ that didn't happen by any means, but there are so many line items to that story that make a fella go .

    Those numbers just don't seem to belong in the same equazsion.


    --------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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  4. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaMoss View Post
    You use air to blow off the machine ? Eeeeeuw
    This isn't 1946 anymore.

    Machines have way covers and run coolant streams equivalent to a few pressure washers all spraying at once inside. I have a Mori that had 105k spindle run hours when I got it. It milled stainless and nickel alloy aerospace parts 2 shifts a day since 1982 with factory installed AIR BLAST around the spindle. It still cuts a bore within 2 tenths and those two little guys are from the Y thrust bearings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garwood View Post
    This isn't 1946 anymore.
    Well, I am

    And it still does everything bad that it did in 1946 : blows shit everywhere, damages your ears, gets crap in your eyes under pressure (have you had steel dug out of your eyeballs yet ? just one of those visits will convince you), wastes a ton of energy (as in $$$), doesn't accomplish anything that can't be done a better way ... to me, it's a crappy practice.

    but that doesn't mean you have to agree ... variety is the spice of life and all that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    He's a slave owner....
    He calls them "serfs".

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    Quote Originally Posted by newtonsapple View Post
    Attachment 222442

    On the air leak front, we had a significant reduction in air consumption by having our intern spend a couple hours a week redoing PTFE taped pipe fittings with Loctite 545. ...(snip)... You can join BSP and NPT fittings, no problem...
    By that logic, you can save on stocking metric fasteners, and just use SAE for everything. Hey, it sorta fits.
    I'm sure the next guy that needs to work on that system appreciates your economy...

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  10. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chip Chester View Post
    By that logic, you can save on stocking metric fasteners, and just use SAE for everything. Hey, it sorta fits.
    I'm sure the next guy that needs to work on that system appreciates your economy...
    Guy down the street makes "things" for processing onions and chile... One of the plants he services
    bought a bunch of used equipment from New Zealand (I don't know why)... He told them flat out..
    "I am not stocking metric stuff just for you"...

    So the other day, I got to make a 1.25" shaft, with diameters of 28mm and 30mm and 8mm keyways and
    1/4" keyways on the 1.25" and a 3/8 tapped hole in the end instead of the 10mm that was on the old shaft.
    Or I should say what was left of the old shaft.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chip Chester View Post
    By that logic, you can save on stocking metric fasteners, and just use SAE for everything. Hey, it sorta fits.
    I'm sure the next guy that needs to work on that system appreciates your economy...
    Yeah, if you are doing things like this, best to consider any joints permanent.

    This approach was preferable to waiting 3 months and more $$$ to get an NPT mount for our dew point monitor probe. The mount that holds the probe has a custom compression fitting with a BSTP that is permanently mounted in an NPT bushing in the side of our tank. The joint is labeled do not disassemble. I didn't have clearance for any available adapter.

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    Lots of great input here...I have gained a few take a ways.

    We just did an Air Energy Audit with 2 years of data. Our Cost to produce Air is $10716.17 per year over the last 2 years. We have a 50 HP Load/No Load main Compressor and a 30 HP Back-up which was not used during the 2 years of data collection other than when we pull PM on the main.

    We had 4 air leaks totaling 4.2 CFM. They have been fixed. Now we are installing a 50 HP VFD replacing our 30 HP back-up and will use the 50 HP Load/No Load as the back-up. They will run another study after the install to determine the exact savings.

    Energy consumption is something we have continually tried to reduce. Our biggest gains:

    Installed a Capacitor Bank taking our Power Correction Factor from .74-76 to .94-.96. Savings $1568.00 per month. No rebates from our power company on this install. Installation cost was $44,000.00. Payback roughly 2.33 years.

    LED Lighting: Originally built the building with High-bay 400 Watt Metal Halides. At their life's end we switched out to Fluorescents. After the rebate our out of pocket was $12000.00. Cannot remember the payback. 3 years ago we switched out to LED Lighting. Our out of pocket was $27000.00 and the savings was $1127 per month. Pay back is hard to determine with the rebate and recycling fees mixing things up a bit.

    By far the biggest gain so far was switching 9 25 Ton HVAC units or to High Efficiency Units. Saving s $10692 average per month in the summer months. Investment $225K. Payback will be about 4.6 years using the rebate money.

    Ongoing Energy reduction is switching our CO2 Lasers out for Fiber Lasers. Need to wait about another year to see the monthly gains made by these change outs. We switched out a 4K Co2 using a 20 ton chiller for a 4K Fiber using an 8 ton chiller about 14 months ago. In December we switched out another 4.5K CO2 for an 8K Fiber and we are seeing lower energy cost already on the bills. In April we will be switching out another 4.5K CO2 for another 8K Fiber.

    Overall 3 years ago we were averaging $26K a month and now we are averaging $19k per month running about 20% more in production.

    No one loves our my like I love our money...I'd rather keep it by investing and getting a return.

    Now if I can only get the company to go Paperless on the front office side I would save 850 sheets of paper a day minimum. That is 2018's goal. Personally I have created a system for my customer group where I do not print anything except Prints, Routers and Set-up Sheets to go to the Floor. All my Customer Quotes, External Suppliers Quotes and customer documentation are stored on a Server where everyone has read only access if the know the Customer, Part Number and Revision. They don't even have to leave their desk to look anything up and nothing has to be re-filed. I had 12 filing cabinets dedicated to my customers and that has been reduced to 1 3/4 and could be zero if my partner in the business did not insist on creating a quote folder for every part number.

    Only took me 10 years to get him to put the Production List and Daily Dispatch list on Google Docs so everything can be updated on the fly by the department heads...but now that he is seeing the 60+ hours a week it saves I think I can get the Paperless Quoting System in play by the end of the year. He hates change...

    Next target: Capacity Planning based on Quoted Hours and implementing an MRP System in real time...then automate the quoting system so you can login to our quoting module and quote your own parts based in downloading a Solid Model into our system...and we will have the final say on the pricing. At least then the fields in the quotes are entered and we can use this info in our CSR system.

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    FN:

    Could you please post your KWH rate - as that is highly relivant to how we can look at paybacks on our ends as well?

    Also - while I applaud your advancements, I still have a sweet spot in my heart for your "not likes change" partner as well.


    ----------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    i have seen machines you shut them down it takes days to get them running stable and to tolerance again.
    .
    you should check grid shift 10 to 100 times measuring to .0001" and see how long it takes to maintain even a .0005" tolerance after shutting machine down

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    Quote Originally Posted by DMF_TomB View Post
    i have seen machines you shut them down it takes days to get them running stable and to tolerance again.
    .
    you should check grid shift 10 to 100 times measuring to .0001" and see how long it takes to maintain even a .0005" tolerance after shutting machine down
    Oh God. He's back...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    FN:

    Could you please post your KWH rate - as that is highly relivant to how we can look at paybacks on our ends as well?


    Ox
    Not to mention the peak rate may come into play with everyone hitting the ON button.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4 FN 27 View Post
    Lots of great input here...I have gained a few take a ways.

    We just did an Air Energy Audit with 2 years of data. Our Cost to produce Air is $10716.17 per year over the last 2 years. We have a 50 HP Load/No Load main Compressor and a 30 HP Back-up which was not used during the 2 years of data collection other than when we pull PM on the main.

    We had 4 air leaks totaling 4.2 CFM. They have been fixed. Now we are installing a 50 HP VFD replacing our 30 HP back-up and will use the 50 HP Load/No Load as the back-up. They will run another study after the install to determine the exact savings.
    4 cfm leak equals to about 1hp at compressor, ~7000kWh per year

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaMoss View Post
    Well, I am

    And it still does everything bad that it did in 1946 : blows shit everywhere, damages your ears, gets crap in your eyes under pressure (have you had steel dug out of your eyeballs yet ? just one of those visits will convince you), wastes a ton of energy (as in $$$), doesn't accomplish anything that can't be done a better way ... to me, it's a crappy practice.

    but that doesn't mean you have to agree ... variety is the spice of life and all that.
    You must not run production in an enclosed machine ever.. I have a hilarious image in my head of an old fella at a VMC using his shop vac to clean out the fixture between cycles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by isaac338 View Post
    You must not run production in an enclosed machine ever.. I have a hilarious image in my head of an old fella at a VMC using his shop vac to clean out the fixture between cycles.
    Shop vac?
    No-compressed-air club (flat earth society?) expects you to clean the VMC with paint brush and shop rag.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MattiJ View Post
    Shop vac?
    No-compressed-air club (flat earth society?) expects you to clean the VMC with paint brush and shop rag.
    Don't forget the spirits for those tough stains.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MattiJ View Post
    Shop vac?
    No-compressed-air club (flat earth society?) expects you to clean the VMC with paint brush and shop rag.
    I think a lot of the guys who run loose preaching the "No Air" thing are Harry Homeshoppers who have a friend who knew a guy who read it in an old 1930's Brown and Sharp grinder manual.

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    I did an air audit for a LARGE manufacturer in Toronto way back when I was employed in the automation game. (we had difficulty getting the air volumes we needed for a material handling line, and they had some SERIOUS air compressors on site)
    Calculated they were losing upwards of 100K annually due to air leaks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Dickman View Post
    I think a lot of the guys who run loose preaching the "No Air" thing are Harry Homeshoppers who have a friend who knew a guy who read it in an old 1930's Brown and Sharp grinder manual.
    It all depends on WHERE you point that air.
    Both Harry homeshop, and Mr Bigwheel would frown upon blasting chips\swarf under the way covers, around the spindle snout, and towards way scrapers.

    Harry Homeshop likely takes better care of his gear, as it cost him a better portion of income, and he damned sure doesnt want to muck it up.

    Im certainly not anti air, but still prefer wash down around the tender bits. Hard on the air where it doesnt matter.

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