Scrap VS Material prices, what are you getting/giving?
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  1. #1
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    Default Scrap VS Material prices, what are you getting/giving?

    The post about transparent pricing made me think, (and also hauled scrap today and can't hardly walk anymore... ) Why can't we people put numbers out here and make things somewhat more transparent? I almost only cut 6061 and have been paying $2.35 at EMJ here in Kansas City lately. We do about 2000 lbs/month or so, and I usually order like 500ish lbs at a time.

    The sCRAP market... Has it gone to hell, or is it just me? Just this winter we were getting 27-28 cents, down from the 47 cents five years ago, but today I got $.17/lb on 2000 lbs of 6061 chips in gaylords, and $.32 for 6061 solids. I am so darn annoyed, and then the lady at the counter told me if I didn't like it, I could take it back and go away when I produced my receipt for 27 cents six weeks ago...
    Is seventeen cents good now? Ugh.

    Anyway, I am always curious if I am being beat up or not, I feel like my guy at EMJ has been treating us okay but I have no clue. Every once in a while I quote Ryerson or USA Metals, but they always come back 20-40% higher. Almost embarassing.

    I am only 5 miles from EMJ so I always pick it up, and write them a check when I grab the material.

    -Parker

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    I can't say about pricing on scrap lately, but we don't even bother with alum any more, so that should say something. If you run only alum all the time (ie no need to clean out machines) it probably 'pays' (pun intended!) to collect it and recycle as there isn't really any extra labor involved. If you are cutting a variety of mat'l probably not worth it to recycle it. We do save the brass wire from the wedm's, but not sure what that price is...

    edit: anyone know what carbide is now? I remember (I think) it was $8-9/lb years ago, and I thought it is down to around $5, but I don't know for sure

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    The current scapegoat for low alu scrap rates is: "China isn't buying it anymore".
    I have been told there are mountains of aluminum scrap piled around the US.
    True? I have no idea. But, it is ridiculous.

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    edit: anyone know what carbide is now? I remember (I think) it was $8-9/lb years ago, and I thought it is down to around $5, but I don't know for sure
    I just checked kennametals scrap price and it was $6 across the board. Inserts, mills and blanks

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    $2.65 for 6061 (I don't buy tons at a time, if I did the price would be more like $2.25)
    $0.12 for my last batch of chips . BArely worth it to take them to the scrap facility.

    Regards.

    Mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    The current scapegoat for low alu scrap rates is: "China isn't buying it anymore".
    I have been told there are mountains of aluminum scrap piled around the US.
    True? I have no idea. But, it is ridiculous.

    I actually believe that now. Today I had a meeting in Zhuhai so I took the hyper ferry from Hong Kong to Zhongshan witch is about 60 miles. Two years ago the scrap barges plagued the Pearl River Delta. Today I may have seen half a dozen or so.

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    Dude I just scrapped a bunch of car bodies... got $40/ton. If the damn things weren't in the way I wouldn't have even bothered. The scrap market has been really shit for a good while now and I do not understand it at all.

    Goldman, JPMorgan dropped from aluminum price-fixing suit

    I love the picture they used... I remember reading a great expose about the "aluminum circus" but can't for the life of me find it. My favorite part is all you can find now is that they got away with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    The current scapegoat for low alu scrap rates is: "China isn't buying it anymore".
    I have been told there are mountains of aluminum scrap piled around the US.
    True? I have no idea. But, it is ridiculous.
    I would expect much of the Al scrap in my area to go to one of the US remelt mills.

    Plastic soda bottles, yes, those go to Asia etc., but Al?

    Regards.

    Mike

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    I do small volume Titanium (medical parts) and I have about 50 pounds of small Ti solids in a 5 gallon bucket. Google tells me it's worth 35 cents a pound delivered to the scrapper. Not worth my time and effort.

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    I got $0.15 for 2500 lbs of chips 2 weeks ago, other yards offered .10 and .13. My 6061 is more like $2 to $2.20/lb here for round extruded. EMJ Phila is almost always highest for me and not just by a little.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kustomizingkid View Post
    Dude I just scrapped a bunch of car bodies... got $40/ton. If the damn things weren't in the way I wouldn't have even bothered. The scrap market has been really shit for a good while now and I do not understand it at all.

    Goldman, JPMorgan dropped from aluminum price-fixing suit

    I love the picture they used... I remember reading a great expose about the "aluminum circus" but can't for the life of me find it. My favorite part is all you can find now is that they got away with it.
    That picture is too perfect.

    One thing to keep in mind is that while Goldman was dropped, their subsidiaries still being on the hook would hurt their bottom line. I doubt Goldman would be dumb enough to carry out this plan and not cover their tracks, which is likely why they were dropped, as they probably don't exercise any control over day to day operations of the business.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    edit: anyone know what carbide is now? I remember (I think) it was $8-9/lb years ago, and I thought it is down to around $5, but I don't know for sure
    In the sevens. It's generally more stable than AL or steel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kustomizingkid View Post
    I love the picture they used... I remember reading a great expose about the "aluminum circus" but can't for the life of me find it. My favorite part is all you can find now is that they got away with it.
    Wiki references a NYT story: Aluminium price-fixing conspiracy - Wikipedia

    Was this what you read?

    A Shuffle of Aluminum, but to Banks, Pure Gold - The New York Times

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    I check this site to get an idea of what is happening. I think the prices listed are at the ports though. Here it is a 4 hr drive to any port so prices locally reflect that. I called last week and the 6061 and 6063 were .40 and .30 lb when on here it lists .70 and .51
    Local yard is sitting on it as long as possible, he paid more for what he has in inventory than he could sell it for.
    Aluminum Scrap Prices USA, UK, China, India, Current Scrap aluminum Price

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    I'd like to know what percentage of scrap stays in the US (used by mills), and what is exported.

    And for that matter, how much sheet/bar/structural is made here and what's imported. A quick look said that in 2014 about a third of Al used in the US was imported, and of that third, two thirds came from Canada. Not sure how much has changed in the last five years...

    Are we seeing less CN materials coming in? Are the Chinese exporting to (say) Vietnam and re-sending material here to avoid tariffs?

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    for 2000lbs at a time of aluminium turnings, would you get a better price if you used a briquetting press? Don't know what the ROI would be if you did get one though.

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    Local scrap yard sells aluminum to walk in for $1.55lb. They went way down on what they pay. THey then went up on what they sell it for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post

    Thats a shorter version of the one I am thinking of... but yes thats the story. Amazing isn't it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kustomizingkid View Post
    Thats a shorter version of the one I am thinking of... but yes thats the story. Amazing isn't it.
    Yeah, I remember reading about this at the time from a couple sources.

    It's one of the frustrating aspects of being a working person in this world, we're like the mice on the elephant's dance floor. These jackholes manipulate stocks/goods/policies while we suffer for it.

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    Once you accept your insignificance its not so bad.

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