Seeking CNC Job Shops for Shop-to-Shop supply network
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 59
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    50
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    21
    Likes (Received)
    29

    Default Seeking CNC Job Shops for Shop-to-Shop supply network

    Hello to the group. We're encouraged by the trends and ongoing efforts to reshore our American manufacturing jobs - specifically in the CNC Machining niche that we all care about. We believe there is a need to promote shop-to-shop cooperation to close the "skills gap" and maximize capacity to help the process along. To that end, we are actively seeking CNC Machine Shops interested in working with other shops. For shop owners, please take a minute to read a more detailed description of the initiative in the link. For others that work in the industry, please send a copy to the owner of your shop. More here: Seeking CNC Machine Shops

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    15,667
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jobshopblog.com View Post
    Hello to the group. We're encouraged by the trends and ongoing efforts to reshore our American manufacturing jobs - specifically in the CNC Machining niche that we all care about. We believe there is a need to promote shop-to-shop cooperation to close the "skills gap" and maximize capacity to help the process along. To that end, we are actively seeking CNC Machine Shops interested in working with other shops. For shop owners, please take a minute to read a more detailed description of the initiative in the link. For others that work in the industry, please send a copy to the owner of your shop. More here: Seeking CNC Machine Shops
    So how much is your cut ?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Langley, B.C.
    Posts
    1,704
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    352
    Likes (Received)
    996

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    So how much is your cut ?

    Not to be negative about the idea but that was the first thought that popped into my mind as well. The general conept of
    "teaming up" with other shops has been discussed here before but the "coach" always wants a piece of the action...

  4. Likes digger doug liked this post
  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Temecula, Ca
    Posts
    2,908
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1301
    Likes (Received)
    3746

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    So how much is your cut ?
    I think the question is, what is your cut?

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Flushing/Flint, Michigan
    Posts
    7,984
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    403
    Likes (Received)
    6601

    Default

    He has an idea and trying.
    So if you want to whine what do you think the "cut" should be 2,3,5,10,18,25 or more percent?
    What are your sales cost as a percentage, do you even track this time and time and money spent?
    Nobody wants a middleman but they do provide a service and should be paid.
    Bob

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Gilbert, AZ
    Posts
    6,034
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7594
    Likes (Received)
    7725

    Default

    "In order to address the challenge of both the shortage in talent and the decentralized nature of our industry,
    we need a facilitator. There needs to be a platform on which shop-to-shop trade can occur without the traditional roadblocks to it."

    Ohh really? And what makes you the expert? Your resume?

  8. #7
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Republic of Arizonia
    Posts
    1,600
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    474

    Default

    Why does this sound like a re-run of an idea from several years ago?

  9. Likes Bobw, Dualkit liked this post
  10. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Akron, OH
    Posts
    1,863
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    289
    Likes (Received)
    1397

    Default

    This pitch is lacking something. Try slipping in an "Industry 4.0"

  11. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Country
    UNITED KINGDOM
    Posts
    2,559
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    1205

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    He has an idea and trying.
    So if you want to whine what do you think the "cut" should be 2,3,5,10,18,25 or more percent?
    Remember the ten-percenters ?

    The thing is, they actually knew people, knew the shops, usually had years of experience in actually making things before they got old and tired and decided to drive around peddling work. 90% chance these guys are just another group of shyster computer-drivers who don't know shit (excluding the buzzwords, which they all seem to know by heart.)

  12. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    50
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    21
    Likes (Received)
    29

    Default

    It was a busy day and I didn’t think to check back on this post until just a bit ago. I’ll be happy to answer the questions.

    First, my name is Andy Schlotter. If anyone would like to contact me directly, the contact page on jobshopblog.com connects to my email which is [email protected].

    By way of further introduction, I started jobshopblog.com a little more than a month ago. My experience in our industry started as I’ve described in a couple of my blog posts on Saturdays and over summers in the late 70’s – with a broom in one hand and a rag in the other.

    Also… thanks to this forum, I got quite a few responses from shops. Believe it or not, Facebook (of all places) is the highest source of responses. There isn’t the pushback, but the pushback is fine and it is definitely a fair trade to be able to know it is coming from people in the industry. It takes an incredibly long time for a new website to be “found.” If not for the ability to reach out on forums like this

    To answer the questions:

    1) For “digger doug” – I saw what you did with my link in your response. Clever. I wish you didn’t do it, but clever nonetheless. Anyway - There is no cut for me. I’ve never made my living in the industry on the sales end, but I’ve been on plenty of sales calls riding with my reps and in support of existing Customers.
    As hard as it may be to believe, this effort comes from my honest belief that it is a needed and underserved avenue for CNC Job Shops – both large and small. Over the years I have routinely put shops together when I was unable to help someone. I never asked for anything from it but I managed to make a lot of great connections and build up a lot of good will.

    If you read my link before trashing it, you may have seen a call at the end for web designers. What I ultimately envision will take resources I do not have to develop. I believe we need a web-based platform for shop-to-shop trade. Having spent my life in the industry, I am aware of the roadblocks that prevent shops from working in cooperation with each other. I think I can get around them. If I can find the right partners, I believe it can be a very lucrative endeavor and provide a needed service to the industry.

    “Carbide Bob’s response was true. Sales reps get paid. In my own experience, I was always very happy to pay them. It meant I was making money. He was also correct that nobody wants a middleman. Regarding making money, there are areas in which I ultimately plan to offer consulting services. They are not rolled out yet because my site is new and because I’ve wanted to spend time getting some content up on the site. I’m hoping that the shops I work with have a positive experience and come to me if they ever need the services I’ll be offering. As I said at the start, I’m also hoping to attract partners for developing the larger project.

    So, as crazy as it may seem to you, I’m creating a database of suppliers, will be reaching out to them to get an understanding of their capabilities, checking their websites, making sure they have a clear understanding of what I’ll be doing so their expectations are aligned with my actions and then linking them with “buyer” shops that I have yet to solicit because I wanted to have willing suppliers at the ready before soliciting shops that could use capacity help. I’ll be doing this as a service with no expectations of anything other than building a network of good will with the belief (supported by past experience) that it will be a worthwhile endeavor.

    Regarding Bob’s correct “middleman” comment, my experience tells me that a middleman is needed in this case. Any sales rep that tried to make their living on shop-to-shop trade would starve to death. The traditional barrier of trust is huge. Only via the internet with a national reach could anyone possibly find a couple hundred (if you’re lucky) interested shops out of the many thousands of shops out there. Trying to make sales calls in search of these shops would be a fool’s errand. Thanks to the internet, linking a shop from Utah in need of 100 diggerdougs (or widgets, if you prefer) from 6061-T6 bar with a shop from North Carolina that has open VMC capacity and the ability to get in the machine with them in a couple of days is a possible and useful service that I see no evidence is being provided – not matter what the “cut.” Once (and if) the traditional trust barrier is broken (something the platform I envision would do), I believe there is a huge untapped capacity to be had.

    To Keith’s comment about the “coach,” I do consider it working as a team and I think it is an important way to think. Rather than the coach, I see it as more of the Special Teams Coordinator. The offense and defense will play most of the game, but every once in a while the outcome special teams can make a difference.

    2) “Wheelieking” wants to know what makes me an expert – my resume? Nothing. I’m just a guy with an idea that I think could add value, my friend. Like everyone else, I have experiences from over the years. I don’t suggest for a second that the experiences make me an expert. In fact, I learn a lot of new things every day.

    3) JS noted that this is an idea put forward a few years ago. That made me smile. At the bottom of the Blog page at my site is my Purpose Statement and some commentary about it (I’d link but I’ve seen what happens to links here). Here is an excerpt:

    “A rare few people are able to break new ground in this world. The rest of us have a choice to either delude ourselves into thinking we are "special" and spend a lifetime trying to prove it, happily live our lives without giving any of it a second thought, or embrace our "normalness" and have the humility to apply the lessons learned from the ground breakers to make our lives and the lives around us better.

    I'm in the last group. Nothing on these pages will break new ground. Instead, these pages will try to put ground already broken into a perspective that can be used to create a Continuous Improvement environment in our CNC Machine Shops that will make them more efficient and less stressful places to work in, manage and own.”

    4) Comatose seems to be buzzword sensitive and took an “Industry 4.0” shot. That made me smile, too. I’ve written about it. I happen to think “Industry 4.0” is preferable to “Internet of Things” for pinning the buzzword meter, but no matter how you describe it, I am of the view that it is important. I think it is among the things in the very near future of our industry that is going to separates the “haves” from the “have nots” in our industry.

    Anyway – I appreciate the opportunity to share my idea and I especially appreciate the shops that replied.

    All the best - Andy

  13. Likes Dupa3872, 4 FN 27, Greg White, Joe Miranda liked this post
  14. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Gilbert, AZ
    Posts
    6,034
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7594
    Likes (Received)
    7725

    Default

    I just went and re-read some of your site again.
    This almost seems like one of those times where: somebody is trying to create a problem to sell a solution.
    I'm sorry man. But, I don't see your vision.
    You list the shortage of talent as one of the things this will fix. Well yea, that is a real problem. But, how will this fix it? It wont.
    As annoying as he is, Titan is actually making an affect on that issue. So is Youtube, John Saunders, Fusion (god, I hate Autodesk!), and a myriad of other outlets.
    I don't see how shops teaming up will help this. Potentially, it could do the exact opposite, promoting specialization. (which is a great strategy to be profitable by the way).
    Instead of somebody/anybody being forced to figure something out on their own, they will just pass it on to so&so, they'll do it!

    One of the biggest roots of the problem is low wages. Third parties do nothing but drive wages even lower.

  15. Likes Comatose, macds liked this post
  16. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Akron, OH
    Posts
    1,863
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    289
    Likes (Received)
    1397

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jobshopblog.com View Post
    4) Comatose seems to be buzzword sensitive and took an “Industry 4.0” shot. That made me smile, too. I’ve written about it. I happen to think “Industry 4.0” is preferable to “Internet of Things” for pinning the buzzword meter, but no matter how you describe it, I am of the view that it is important. I think it is among the things in the very near future of our industry that is going to separates the “haves” from the “have nots” in our industry.
    Actually it's not buzzwords generally... my main line of business is design and manufacture of power electronics. Our machining is in support of that. We've made literally millions of internet connectable devices. We do motion control systems from scratch. I know, well, a little something about the electronics and programming world. Industry 4.0 is the emptiest buzzword ever, even worse than "Internet of things."

    Can you define what making a job shop more internet connected means, in specific terms, and how it will help a guy doing onesie-tensie quantities? What's going to make the "have nots" not have?

    (I mean, I know the answer to that, it's going to be implementing low cost robotics and automation, not connectivity, but this is your soapbox and I'm just here to look for discount produce.)

  17. Likes Ox liked this post
  18. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    50
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    21
    Likes (Received)
    29

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    I just went and re-read some of your site again.
    This almost seems like one of those times where: somebody is trying to create a problem to sell a solution.
    I'm sorry man. But, I don't see your vision.
    You list the shortage of talent as one of the things this will fix. Well yea, that is a real problem. But, how will this fix it? It wont.
    As annoying as he is, Titan is actually making an affect on that issue. So is Youtube, John Saunders, Fusion (god, I hate Autodesk!), and a myriad of other outlets.
    I don't see how shops teaming up will help this. Potentially, it could do the exact opposite, promoting specialization. (which is a great strategy to be profitable by the way).
    Instead of somebody/anybody being forced to figure something out on their own, they will just pass it on to so&so, they'll do it!

    One of the biggest roots of the problem is low wages. Third parties do nothing but drive wages even lower.
    Shops teaming up isn’t intended to replace the work of the outlets you listed, Wheelieking. Resources like you listed and our own training programs are the long-term solution to the manpower issue. They’re doing good work. I’m talking about the current capacity problems created by the lack of capable people even though that good work is being done.

    If Shop X is killing it and can’t either can’t find people or the people they can find are coming in with huge rate demands that will blow up their pay structure because it is such a seller’s market for talent, Shop Y may be their way to address the issue.

    Finding a trusted Shop Y is something that takes time if you have to go do the research yourself. If (as is the case) someone simply asks Shop Y’s to identify themselves, Shop X has a place to find them. That’s all I’m saying.

  19. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Kansas
    Posts
    333
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    75
    Likes (Received)
    153

    Default

    I'm glad you came back. You can achieve refinement of your idea if you can handle the unique environment of the forum. Best advise is to avoid the pissing matches. Several members are experts and you wont win.

  20. Likes jobshopblog.com, Greg White, Mike1974 liked this post
  21. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    50
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    21
    Likes (Received)
    29

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Comatose View Post
    Actually it's not buzzwords generally... my main line of business is design and manufacture of power electronics. Our machining is in support of that. We've made literally millions of internet connectable devices. We do motion control systems from scratch. I know, well, a little something about the electronics and programming world. Industry 4.0 is the emptiest buzzword ever, even worse than "Internet of things."

    Can you define what making a job shop more internet connected means, in specific terms, and how it will help a guy doing onesie-tensie quantities? What's going to make the "have nots" not have?

    (I mean, I know the answer to that, it's going to be implementing low cost robotics and automation, not connectivity, but this is your soapbox and I'm just here to look for discount produce.)
    Sure – Access.

    I’m speaking specifically about the Supply Chain aspects of it. Many of us (for example) get weekly reports from “Supplier Managers” (or whatever your Customer calls them) in their own format asking us to populate the update field and reply by noon on Thursday. It happens every week and it is frustrating because many times the update doesn’t change and we’re simply pasting the last update in the new report. We reply by noon on Thursday because our supplier rating is impacted if we don’t. Many times, these reports are being sent by the high-end aerospace Customers that everyone covets.

    Industry 4.0 as it applies to supply management – “Supply Chain 4.0” – is already having Customers wanting to be able to automate the process with real time ability to interact with our systems to get the information on their own when they want it. They want it and get it in some cases, but I know of none that require it. I’m predicting that will change.

    My opinion is not only that most of us are not ready, but that most of us that ARE ready aren’t willing (at this time, anyway). Look how I’ve been blasted for simply trying to promote shop-to-shop trade. My motives were immediately challenged. What’s going to happen when some Customer wants us to have their open order data hosted on the Cloud with password access to their portal?

    We want the ability to present our data as we see fit to present it. If we have an MRP system with a scheduling module, maybe our data collection is running behind because we do it manually and the system is showing red when we know we are OK. Maybe we took a job quickly without formally defining a process for it and the system can’t recognize where it is in the process. We know we are or will be OK and want no parts of a Customer seeing this aspect of our system. We turn on a dime all the time and the system we have can’t keep up with us even if the only reason is that we are behind on data entry.

    The shops with the financial resources and mindset to go with this flow will be the “haves.” Those that either don’t have the resources or object to the concept will be the “have nots.”

    This has nothing to do with robotic parts loaders or sensors monitoring machine feedback for maintenance needs and it doesn’t differentiate between the low QTY-high mix shops and the high-QTY production shops. The Customer I had in mind when writing this reply placed plenty of 1-10 piece orders for complex parts with multiple operations, EN plating, silk screening, assembly of various helicoils and other inserts and source inspection requirements.

    They are parts I’d *never* sub out. But there are plenty of lesser jobs I would sub out, if necessary, that might be in the way of being able to get in the machine with them.

    There is already some “have/have not” exclusion happening with ISO and AS requirements. It doesn’t get talked about, but I see the potential for the transparency aspects of the buzzword increasing with the next revisions of those standards.

    As an aside, I’m no different than any of the rest of us in this industry. We are *all* sensitive to buzzwords and it goes back at least to when TQM and the SPC aspect of it was all the rage in the late 80’s and the first “consultant boom” happened. It accelerated with the various colored belts of six sigma, champions, experts and those mind-numbing Power Point presentations where somebody was explaining to us that lack of a 6-sigma process meant that we were OK with 3.4 deaths per million miles traveled in a plane. I get it – I say “Industry 4.0” and I’m immediately trying to get over on someone. I can’t help that it has a name. I also can’t help that my opinion is that it is here to stay.

  22. Likes tdmidget liked this post
  23. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Medina OH
    Posts
    1,976
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    179
    Likes (Received)
    904

    Default

    This has been done for generations, though with different names through the decades.

    A couple of machine shops I like from a long ago forgotten time each had their niche, a job would get bid, staking the multiple shops combined efforts. If the job was received, each shop would get dolled out portions of the contract.

    If company A needed machining operation Y it went to Company B. etc

    The difference is, those shops knew and respected each other. They were regional.

    I'm not opposed to the concept, but I am skeptical to the follow through.

  24. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Michigan
    Posts
    322
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    159
    Likes (Received)
    181

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fal Grunt View Post
    This has been done for generations, though with different names through the decades.

    A couple of machine shops I like from a long ago forgotten time each had their niche, a job would get bid, staking the multiple shops combined efforts. If the job was received, each shop would get dolled out portions of the contract.

    If company A needed machining operation Y it went to Company B. etc

    The difference is, those shops knew and respected each other. They were regional.

    I'm not opposed to the concept, but I am skeptical to the follow through.
    This reminds me of an example of such a standing deal in the Crash Test Dummy industry. The two major players (Plymouth, MI and Huron, OH) each had their specialty. One had the best instrumentation, the other was good for "dummy" parts that behaved like human limbs. They bought from each other and competed with each other. Once upon a time (in the 90s if I remember correctly), each decided to start undercutting the other. This spiraled out of control and almost resulted in the entire industry going under. At the end of the day, they merged to avoid that and to this day are technically not a monopoly because there's an outfit in Japan that makes a single-digit number of Anthropomorphic Test Devices each year.

    Point is, there is the potential for significant overlap between "partner" and "competitor" in any arrangement like this, even long-standing ones where there should be that level of trust. If that breaks down for any number of reasons, then a major problem can develop. Of course, in that case being the middleman is likely a tremendous opportunity (for headache and/or success, but the smart money is on the headache).

  25. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Maryland
    Posts
    787
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    514
    Likes (Received)
    461

    Default Caution to the wood chipper!

    What the heck, I got nothing to loose. I haven't the time to make the Xometry qualifying test part yet. I'll fill out the form and see what comes up.

  26. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    69
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    43
    Likes (Received)
    40

    Default

    If we could charge $250/hour we could pay our machinists $75/hr and the talent shortage would magically disappear.

  27. Likes tay2daizzo8, thunderskunk liked this post
  28. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    50
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    21
    Likes (Received)
    29

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by metal-ica View Post
    If we could charge $250/hour we could pay our machinists $75/hr and the talent shortage would magically disappear.
    That’s how it should be. Maybe we can get it there? We’ve certainly seen enough of the other side to last a lifetime. One really positive sign is the ever-increasing costs in China. With all of the active reshoring advocacy groups like Reshoring Initiative | Reshoring Initiative, The Reshoring Institute | Reshoring Consulting & Reshoring Research, The Reshoring Initiative, PMA, AMT and NTMA Launch 3rd Annual National Metalworking Reshoring Award - National Tooling & Machining Association, Sourcing Solutions - First National Reshoring Award Form | Precision Metalforming Association, Reshoring Archives - The Made in America Movement and others, there is reason to be optimistic, in my opinion.

    The request for shops has met with some real success. The database is growing and includes companies from Seattle, WA to Orlando, FL. There is capacity for CNC vertical, horizontal and 5x milling, CNC turning, Swiss CNC and Additive Manufacturing. I’ve modified the landing page for the effort to more thoroughly describe it and address some of the comments received here. https://jobshopblog.com/cnc-machining-suppliers

    We are ready to link shops that could use some help moving their backlog with shops that have open capacity. If your shop is in need of short-term capacity support, please reach out to be matched up with CNC shops interested in working with other CNC shops.
    Last edited by jobshopblog.com; 11-26-2019 at 09:31 AM.


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •