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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by nitrousmudbogger View Post
    After looking at Glassdoor and Indeed there are no operators making 90k a year anywhere. We are paying on the higher end of the scale here from what I saw. Across the country Operators were $10-20/ hr, Machinist were up to $29, very little foreman info. Thats just what I saw in my searches yesterday. Yeah some make more, some less. Im more interested in what Foreman make and what CURRENT foreman tasks are
    What he is talking about is 23/hr base pay and then working a ton of over time to augment it.

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  3. #22
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    Finding comparable salaries for management positions is a drag. Foreman, plant manager, plant supervisor .... all sorts of different titles for the same position. All different pay ranges.

    Here in Minnesota close the the major cities this is what you will find:

    -Manage employees
    -Manage departments
    -Manage facility maintenance
    -Manage operating budget
    -Manage schedule
    -Deal with hiring, firing, and discipline
    -Trouble shoot fussy parts and machines
    -Accountable to senior management

    Pay range: $70k with no experience, up to $120k

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  5. #23
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    Last place I was a foreman got twice the normal wage,and was required to put in twice the hours ,no overtime......so being foreman wasnt a great deal........they even offered me the managers job,because the owners needed someone to take the fall if the EPA or WHSO came down hard on them.They ended up finding a previous manager ,who hadnt worked since they fired him for underquoting a big job........Then the new owners fired him ,cause the books had been fiddled by the previous owners.

  6. #24
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    Best of luck in finding the person you need. I was through your town a couple of months ago. Very few people from populated areas understand the desolation surrounding your area. And I believe even fewer would be able to make the transition. Amazon becomes your best friend. I haven't been there in the summer, are you within the area that becomes full of tourists when the hoards descend upon Yellowstone?

    Being a family business, I would need to know if I could fire nephew Billy when he screws up or becomes a toxic personality.

    I really think you will have to hire someone from the area. There is just to much culture shock otherwise.

  7. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by gbent View Post
    Best of luck in finding the person you need. I was through your town a couple of months ago. Very few people from populated areas understand the desolation surrounding your area. And I believe even fewer would be able to make the transition. Amazon becomes your best friend. I haven't been there in the summer, are you within the area that becomes full of tourists when the hoards descend upon Yellowstone?

    Being a family business, I would need to know if I could fire nephew Billy when he screws up or becomes a toxic personality.

    I really think you will have to hire someone from the area. There is just to much culture shock otherwise.
    I moved from a relatively smallish town to just outside Tampa, FL. Culture shock indeed! I hate HATE HATE having to cross the bridge into Tampa.

  8. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    I moved from a relatively smallish town to just outside Tampa, FL. Culture shock indeed! I hate HATE HATE having to cross the bridge into Tampa.

    I've been in SWFL for most of my life.... I hate crossing that bridge too.

  9. #27
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    I hate traffic period...I'm probably in the wrong location for this lol

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  11. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by mneuro View Post
    ...

    Pay range: $70k with no experience, up to $120k
    So a foreman sees 70 with no experience and 120 with say 15-20 years?
    I had no idea the pay was that good in Minnesota and my friends there must be getting the short end of the stick.
    Your stuff to do list is a bit above a foreman.
    Yes the upper number is in line or maybe low for a plant manger pay but that's a very different job.
    I have no idea how or why you think "Foreman, plant manager, plant supervisor" as the same job descriptions.
    Bob

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    Yeah I don't get the cost of living in most western states...............unless you'er 50 miles+ from town, you will pay through the nose for housing and all you get then is a double wide with a few acres of sage brush...............I was just out in the OP's neck of the woods. Beautiful area..............wish I could move.............

  13. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by mneuro View Post
    Finding comparable salaries for management positions is a drag. Foreman, plant manager, plant supervisor .... all sorts of different titles for the same position. All different pay ranges.

    Here in Minnesota close the the major cities this is what you will find:

    -Manage employees
    -Manage departments
    -Manage facility maintenance
    -Manage operating budget
    -Manage schedule
    -Deal with hiring, firing, and discipline
    -Trouble shoot fussy parts and machines
    -Accountable to senior management

    Pay range: $70k with no experience, up to $120k
    Not sure where you're seeing that kinda pay here in MN?

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    You would think 40 below in winter and 110 in summer might put some off......but then you do get the view and the wide open spaces.No money would get me there.

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    [we have transitioned machinists] Some times a good machinist is more valuable on the machine..
    I have worked in top shops where the foreman knew less than the guys..but still ran a very good shop..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    Also good to job hop, that is what I did working for the man. Back in the day it was the best way to quickly increase your pay if you were good, and get exposure to more equipment and ways of doing things.
    Did you teach me that or did I teach you?

  17. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    So a foreman sees 70 with no experience and 120 with say 15-20 years?
    I had no idea the pay was that good in Minnesota and my friends there must be getting the short end of the stick.
    Your stuff to do list is a bit above a foreman.
    Yes the upper number is in line or maybe low for a plant manger pay but that's a very different job.
    I have no idea how or why you think "Foreman, plant manager, plant supervisor" as the same job descriptions.
    Bob
    Plant manager is probably more in line with the tasks that I listed.

    The reason I say same job descriptions is for searching for comparable salaries. I re-read what I wrote and can see how it is confusing.

    If you go to a place like indeed and look through shop manager positions, it ranges wildly for industry and pay, but they all have essentially the same job descriptions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by david n View Post
    Not sure where you're seeing that kinda pay here in MN?
    I work 20min west of the twin cities. This area is a manufacturing hub. There is lots of high end medical and aerospace in the area. 70k for any kind of supervisor is the cost to get someone in the door.

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    Would like to add this to the topic.

    Should above average pay also be considered based on the following:

    - Company size
    - Company revenue
    - Company profitability
    - Foreman's direct impact/contribution to the three points above
    - Foreman's availability to meet operational needs

    Seems to me that say $70K annually is right for one set of scenarios, but if the same person works in the right size mix with a company that has high revenue and profitablity that has a direct impact, they should be paid appropriately for their piece of the pie.

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  21. #37
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    That is a good point.

    Company size seems to be a huge factor. Company size plays a huge role in exceptions as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    [we have transitioned machinists] Some times a good machinist is more valuable on the machine..
    I have worked in top shops where the foreman knew less than the guys..but still ran a very good shop..
    Too often good or great machinists are pushed into becoming supervisors.
    This because of a pay reward and some failed thinking that the super should make more that the people he/she watches over.
    I have seen this mistake made time and time again and everyone ends up unhappy.
    A good foreman knows the basics, is not the best on a machine or operation but knows how to work with the wide range of people that can do it and how to lead or coach them.

    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Too often good or great machinists are pushed into becoming supervisors.
    This because of a pay reward and some failed thinking that the super should make more that the people he/she watches over.
    I have seen this mistake made time and time again and everyone ends up unhappy.
    A good foreman knows the basics, is not the best on a machine or operation but knows how to work with the wide range of people that can do it and how to lead or coach them.

    Bob
    Peter's principle is a good book to read on this topic. The basis of the book is how people keep doing extremely well at their position and get promoted and continue to be promoted until they are promoted into a position they are incapable of doing for one reason or another and then people downstream pay the consequence.

    My dad bought my the book to read after complaining about things at work. I have not asked him for clarification if I am to come to terms I'm in that spot or if its to help me understand how to deal with those who are..

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  25. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by gbent View Post
    Being a family business, I would need to know if I could fire nephew Billy when he screws up or becomes a toxic personality.
    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Too often good or great machinists are pushed into becoming supervisors.
    This because of a pay reward and some failed thinking that the super should make more that the people he/she watches over.
    I have seen this mistake made time and time again and everyone ends up unhappy.
    A good foreman knows the basics, is not the best on a machine or operation but knows how to work with the wide range of people that can do it and how to lead or coach them.

    Bob
    Highlight the above two quotes!! "Family business" is going to be a potential red flag for anyone who actually knows what managing is about.

    And managing people requires a far, far different skill set than machining. Some may be able to do both ... many will not. It may well be that a mediocre machinist--who understands their own limitations!--would make a far better manager than a superb machinist.

    The problem is, you either have to attract an experienced foreman with demonstrated skills (hard to do, and if they're good, why are they looking to move?), OR you have to grow your own. The latter sounds like the route you've been trying, but perhaps there is a better way to go about it:

    1) Look for the person who is able to interact well with everyone (or at least most) on the floor - the person who has people skills, regardless of machine skills. Ideally you want someone who is humble personally but highly motivated to succeed--or better yet, to see the company succeed.

    2) TRAIN THIS PERSON. Don't assume they can just start leading, any more than you would assume you can toss someone out on the floor and they can start machining with no training. Ask around, look for GOOD courses* on leadership / management. Consider vetting these courses by taking them yourselves--has the upper management had any training?

    *IMHO, good courses will teach more than one helpful paradigm WITHOUT buying into the mantra that is found in every single book I've ever read about leadership--the mantra that THIS approach is the ONE AND ONLY way to do it, and will solve all problems including world hunger, acne, and the common cold. Some specific approaches that I think are especially helpful: 1) Good to Great by Jim Collins; 2) family systems - don't have a specific book or author to recommend, but the approach is helpful in any relational system (think of how various machinists relate to each other and to management), and could be especially helpful in a family business; 3) dynamics of social power (Gary Yukl is one author); 4) Situational Leadership (developed by Hersey and Blanchard; some of Blanchard's later development is a bit too cutesy / cut-and-dried, but the basic idea is still good). Again, IMHO, none of these is THE answer, but all offer some very helpful ways to think about how to lead effectively.

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