Shop Security System

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Time has come to install a security system. The technology is leap frogging with a myriad of features. No clear choice. Looking for the most reliable system to support six cameras. Three cameras will be outside in the weather. Require wireless with extended battery life, not subjectable to hacking. Cameras must deliver clear, recognizable images. Wish images be retrievable for several days. Get cell phone alerts for after hour activity. Hell, there may be valuable features I'm not even aware of. I am no geek and take no enjoyment from computer toys.

Prefer to hear from owners with first hand experience.
Thanks in advance for your consideration.

Wireless is no good.

I dont know your budget but I would vote Ubiquiti, its a little complex to choose what you need but I could help you with that as well as the configuration...that said its a wired setup using power over ethernet.

as9100d said:

Wireless is no good.

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What is wrong with wireless cameras? I could really use a system too, but like the op I am clueless on what to look for. Wired might work for a few cameras, but is a logistical nightmare for some locations, wireless seems like the answer.

Wireless sucks...batteries have to be maintained, they dont last long and you have the security aspect of it.

When we were going through the motions for NIST 800-171 for cyber security, we had to change out all the wireless for wired cameras (thankfully wasnt many)

The thought is someone can steal the camera and extract the wifi details and then access your network. Thats up to you if you care or not I suppose...

Wired are fast, dont run out of batteries, and are generally better on all levels.

Wired isnt as bad as you think.... buy a crimper, rj45 pass through ends, and a spool of cat6e plenum cable. make your own cables and run them where you need them. If any of you get stuck or need help, id be glad to put together a tool and equipment list for you.

If you ask me security systems and cameras are 2 different products. I have both the alarm system it was installed by Protection 1 (now ADT). I paid for the system outright and monitoring is less expensive that way. The alarm system did not stop a drug addict from stealing my ranch tools stored on the front porch. The meth head pried on the front door but did not get in.
A camera system would have been most helpful so I added that later. Back then direct wired was definitely better and I had Adam (makezee) from this thread Ask me anything IT related buy the equipment and set it up. I ran the cat 6 cable through conduit to the 4 cameras. Making up the cable connectors would have been easier if I was not color blind, an employee helped. It took several days but i have a fairly tamper proof system. Cameras will need to have their lenses cleaned every six months or so.
At that time Adam recommended Hik Vision cameras and NVR. There maybe better or more user friendly stuff available today.

They are absolutely 2 different systems.

I would totally agree on not going with wireless cameras. I did install a system a while ago using wired ip cameras that involved a remote building on the property, in which there was no conduit available, so this would have required digging a trench across a parking lot about 300 ft. Needless to say the customer was not excited about that. Instead I used a wireless bridge to connect the two buildings. I was skeptical about four 2mp cameras streaming 5ips from each camera back to the Nvr over the bridge, but it has worked flawlessly for years now.

kb1cjp said:

I would totally agree on not going with wireless cameras. I did install a system a while ago using wired ip cameras that involved a remote building on the property, in which there was no conduit available, so this would have required digging a trench across a parking lot about 300 ft. Needless to say the customer was not excited about that. Instead I used a wireless bridge to connect the two buildings. I was skeptical about four 2mp cameras streaming 5ips from each camera back to the Nvr over the bridge, but it has worked flawlessly for years now.

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Its come a long way.... you can do fiber optic speeds over wireless bridges now and stream 4k like its no big deal.

I use a Q-See NVR (Network Video Recorder) system and like it. 1080p resolution is pretty good, can read license plates if they are within 30 feet. POE(Power Over Ethernet) cameras need only one cable. and a wireless camera need a power wire anyway, so you may as well go wired. Most hardware is made overseas, avoid anything that has connections to or is made by Huawei, they have back doors that can be breached by outsiders.

Mud said:

I use a Q-See NVR (Network Video Recorder) system and like it. 1080p resolution is pretty good, can read license plates if they are within 30 feet. POE(Power Over Ethernet) cameras need only one cable. and a wireless camera need a power wire anyway, so you may as well go wired. Most hardware is made overseas, avoid anything that has connections to or is made by Huawei, they have back doors that can be breached by outsiders.

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All of my cameras are connected on their own separate hardware/vlans and are not connected on the regular network. Same with all of my voip phones.

Because this stuff is so cheap anymore (without giving away the keys to my system), I would advocate for deploying overlapping systems. I have multiple in my shop. I like big cameras to let people know I'm watching and small cameras to do the watching. Mix storage (local, cloud, card), connections (wifi, cellular, none) etc for a nice portfolio.

NVR is cheap, hardwired, has cameras with big IR lights and makes a nice show for outdoors. A long pole defeats these readily.
Cellular network and card-only game cams can do similar but can be difficult to detect and work during power outage. These use card or cloud storage.

Dummy cams now have some surprising features. Old NVR cams work too. Only place in plausible locations. Mixing brands is helpful.

Indoor wifi cams are 25 dollars, work good, are easy to place and give local and safe cloud storage, but a pocket knife to your outdoor internet connection ends that. Set on timers to reboot weekly. Cellular network indoor cameras can also be deployed with similar features and a different defeat mechanism, some brands have built in battery backup.

110v plug in charger cams can get pix and conversations, are often unrecognized, and will charge your phone too. Lightbulb cams are also available. Both of these have a certain pervert factor and should be placed carefully.

GPS tracker devices can be put on expensive or better yet, expensive looking items which are easily removed by an unsuspecting intruder.

Monitored alarms fit nicely into above as well with added fire protection available.

While cameras are good, don't forget the backup systems Rottweiler.com provides. Also ShopSheperd.com has some good deals.

We have here Axis cameras and their server setup on a dedicated PC, I get a Email/SMS with a picture attached when there is any motion at a specific perimeter and is separate then the motion recording perimeter,
I would absolutely try to go with 4K cameras where I can, the detail is outstanding, but you have to account for more storage space, a few 10TB hard-drives might get you over a year in recording time.

Wireless cameras do suck. An integrated system like SimpliSafe is nice. They don't really have exterior cameras but they sell an enclosure for them. Paid monitoring and back end is in "the cloud" so you don't have to mess with storage or worry about a thief sealing your video recorder with the evidence on it. You can get motion alerts from the cameras too. You can also do secret alerts. Example you put an alarm contact on your office door. You get a push notice to your phone (no visual or audio alarm in the building) if the door is opened.

Mike

Rewt said:

While cameras are good, don't forget the backup systems Rottweiler.com provides. Also ShopSheperd.com has some good deals.

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We like these

However they can be hard on the evidence and are noisy but they are a lot of fun when they are not in security mode.

All wireless cameras can be easily hacked into. that is the problem. Hardwire only!

I just want a camera to watch the machine, that I can check from my phone or home computer. I tried getting one that had good reviews, but the app required basically ALL permissions on my phone. That's a big nope.

You need ubiquiti.... no app required, just use the web browser via private vpn, that or the app they have works great also with no permissions.

If you are not in the building watching the monitor what good are cameras?
Yes you may get photos of the breakin, the police will do nothing with this information.
Even if the kid down the street is clearly shown they will go talk to him but nothing happens. BTDT
Exposed cameras or that sign that says video surveillance and they wear masks.
Hi res cameras can do a licensee plate if aimed right but again nobody gets arrested.

Old school is fishing line, nail and microswitch. Followed by lots of lights and sound to make the environment sort of explode into absolute chaos.
You want to overload their brain and senses.
Most video systems will have an output you can wire to such also but false triggers of a squirrel may become a problem.

Video systems work great if you have a really, really big shop with many buildings and a security staff on the premises.

All neat but in the case of a breakin and it calls your phone, what do you do and what do you expect the outcome to be?

I have 32 cameras, mostly they have provided proof of employees doing bad things during the workday.
Dumb stuff like stealing cash from the secretary's purse or taking someones leather jacket.

A false sense of security in my mind and experience. You get to watch them steal from you on your phone or computer.
Home system different as you are there so real time and no response lag.

Lots of glowing cameras may be a deterrent even if all just fake cameras.
Battery operated become a real pain it the ass. Worth it to run the wires in the long view.
If a thief wanting is sturdy enough to hack your wireless now you have larger problems so this concern is just silly.
Bob

CarbideBob said:

If you are not in the building watching the monitor what good are cameras?
Yes you may get photos of the breakin, the police will do nothing with this information.
Even if the kid down the street is clearly shown they will go talk to him but nothing happens. BTDT
Exposed cameras or that sign that says video surveillance and they wear masks.
Hi res cameras can do a licensee plate if aimed right but again nobody gets arrested.

Old school is fishing line, nail and microswitch. Followed by lots of lights and sound to make the environment sort of explode into chaos.
Most video systems will have an output you can wire to such also but false triggers of a squirrel may become a problem.

Video systems work great if you have a really, really big shop with many buildings and a security staff on the premises.

All neat but in the case of a breakin and it calls your phone, what do you do and what do you expect the outcome to be?

I have 32 cameras, mostly they have provided proof of employees doing bad things during the workday.
Dumb stuff like stealing cash from the secretary's purse or taking someones leather jacket.
Bob

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Youre behind the curve on technology....cameras now have tracking, facial recognition, email/text/call you with triggered alerts. lots of stuff can be done now.