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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by johfoster View Post
    More importantly it is just Me here at work. My heart goes out to the People on here who might have to figure out who else's family is going to struggle. I have very seldom had anyone counting on me to pay them, and I wouldn't wish to be in the position of no work coming up and a large payroll dependent on it.
    Best of luck with the young'un, hope all goes well there. And to the issue of employees wages, I hear you - the reports from restaurant owners and the like on efforts to protect their staff is difficult reading. Very, very exposed with no clear support available.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    Honestly, very little time. A month without cash flow will be extremely unpleasant, especially if the creditors expect everything to be paid as usual.
    "Expect" they surely will. They'll need all they can get from the less-affected or better prepared for overall survival of their own biz model.

    Or the model they have to scamble to morph it INTO.

    "Get" they will surely not. Too broad the effect, too low the gain to not be flexible.

    As always, banks and financial services win. Small business and homeowners lose.
    In global pandemics? Not so much. These are the times banksters have to be heros at bridging gaps.

    Mellon an example. FDR ordered the banks closed, nationwide. Mellon, Pittsburgh defied him. Told his depositors his bank HAD their money, was paying 100-cents on the dollar. Bring a wheelbarrow and withdraw it all if you have that much.

    Forced Roosevelt to close Mellon bank under force of arms.

    No one ever KNEW if Mellon REALLY had the money or not. That may have been his plan all along.

    Confidence.

    But for damned sure HE GOT IT BACK, many times over, and for long, long years in trust and confidence from the community.

    That will happen in a way this go as well as wiser banksters jockey for a better future built off credit as helping hands and heros in a dark hour of need.


    Why we continue to put up with that and shout down the folks who say "this is wrong" is something I don't understand.
    Only because you need to understand what Walt Kelly had "Pogo" say:

    "We have met the enemy, and they are us."

    It's "our" economy, "our" contribution, but also "our" needs and "our" extraction just as much, too, y'see.

    Banksters aren't the problem. They are only the haulers of the freight of differences settled in coin of the realm or figures in records.

    "Scorekeepers" more than players.

    One could go back to trading parts for milk, eggs, butter, grain, a bushel of 'taters or green beans, or a live chicken?

    It happens. War Two and aftermath, much of a devastated Europe. Or Asia.

    Not so long ago as all that, was it?

    The UK was not able to cease RATIONING soap powder until 1954. And they were on the "winning" side of the war?

    Mind, damned-foolishness of Socialist Labour had their usual hand in interfering with a faster recovery.

    How "new" is that sad tale?

    You think this is a bad scene? Just try to imagine the famine and blood in the streets a Commissar Sanders or "Commander Zero" barmaid-green-steal AOC would have us in!

    Not new. See cannibalism, USSR, 1920's. Stalin's re-run, 1930's. The Great Chinese Famine.

    Or present-day Venezuela.

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  4. #23
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    #22 Thermite
    Well done, you can write in English when sufficiently angry.
    Perhaps you should become angry more frequently.
    Then other PM users might understand WTF you mean.

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  6. #24
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    The Mayor of Boston just put a few thousand construction workers off the job, My brother being one of them. I need to stop writing now before I cross the line of no return. I'm tired of these fools running our lives. They are living off our hard work and continue to tie one hand behind our backs.

    Ron

  7. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by motion guru View Post
    Its just stuff, if push comes to shove, I’ll contact my largest customer and see if he wants to buy us. We won’t go down without a good effort.
    I think it's sad that businesses need to fear being put out of business by government dictats. As I've said repeatedly, the economic effects from forced shutdowns will run into the trillions and government loan guarantees aren't a solution. Trying to pay off borrowed money after your business has been forced into a hole only makes the hole deeper and the damage longer lasting. I've done some informal polling among many elderly people, some of them with existing health issues, and most of them are HORRIFIED that this much damage is being done in the name of protecting them.

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  9. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dupa3872 View Post
    The Mayor of Boston just put a few thousand construction workers off the job, My brother being one of them. I need to stop writing now before I cross the line of no return. I'm tired of these fools running our lives. They are living off our hard work and continue to tie one hand behind our backs.

    Ron
    This is EXACTLY what happens when a populace lets those in government accumulate too much power. Lord Acton was correct when he said "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely".

    No external enemy could possibly do as much damage to the United States of America as our so-called leaders are doing to us and each imposition they get away with only whets their appetite for more.

    It will get worse, much much worse, and not from the disease but rather from the "cure".

  10. #27
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    I have work contracted out 6 months right now. Its plenty to cover operating expenses. My home is paid for. I have no debt.

    This is exactly why I told myself never to take on debt again. After 2008 it was cash only from there on out. Imagine if I had just financed a new cnc. Now I can sit back and work like always and just wait it out until it comes back.

    I am actually more excited right now at how fast the economy will come right back when this is over. Its not the same market conditions as in 2008. Business is still booming in the overall scheme of things. Just need to let this pass so we can all get busy again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ManicMetalBasher View Post
    #22 Thermite
    Well done, you can write in English when sufficiently angry.
    Perhaps you should become angry more frequently.
    Then other PM users might understand WTF you mean.
    Writing isn't the problem. But at my age, condition, and flavour of give-a-damn?

    I'd LOVE it if someone could show me how to raise the energy level to to where I COULD "get angry".

    Kinda like the rush one got from good sex wasn't it?

    Who TF remembers .... either one...

  12. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanASM View Post
    .. sit back and work like always and just wait it out until it comes back.
    We ALL will. With debt or not. Simple enough. No better option available.
    Whole world being hammered? A person would look a right wuss if even yah blew yer brains out with shop air for lack of belief in owning firearms.

    I am actually more excited right now at how fast the economy will come right back when this is over. Its not the same market conditions as in 2008. Business is still booming in the overall scheme of things. Just need to let this pass so we can all get busy again.
    Got it in one.

    "What doesn't kill yah makes yah stronger." That applies to economies and national pride as well as physical immune systems.

    Folks will get through this. Then stand tall, share "war stories", and be PROUD of having met the challenge.

    It's what we DO ever so much better than Dodo birds.

    Messy or not.

    I did say "no better option?"


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  14. #30
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    I was writing up a help wanted ad not long ago and decided it would be worth tabling for the time being. We are down to 3 full time and 2 part time so I see no reason to not come to work.

    Just this week I have been seeing good work come across my desk. The machines are busy and so am I. as long as I can get material and cutting tools I can run for a few months on the work I have now. I'll put it this way, If our shop can't outlive this situation then every one of us if up a creek.

    When all this blows over I'm going to start a prepper website to capitalize on this new found market...

  15. #31
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    E.G..........And the US is not a great example of "truth in data" either ...

    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Folks around you might wish you hadn't been so damned greedy to be seen as a "pioneering seer" as to make a 40-year running head start on THAT part, soon as yah figured you could channel Lev Trotsky and not be caught-out a copycat.

    But carry-on.

    We are as f**ked-up as yah think we are, there may come a genuine shortage and we might actually need yah for use as bum-fodder.

    Since E.G. moved from the UK to some "minor islands", he's taken over the talking points formerly used by Gordon.

    I'm GD sick and tired of people running down my country, America, Whatever we do has been damn good enough for the last 250 years or so.

    We may not be perfect, but neither are our critics. They can all piss off.


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  17. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by yoke View Post
    Just this week I have been seeing good work come across my desk. The machines are busy and so am I.
    As far as I know, you can't get a virus from a machining center

    A friend in Alameda told me he wasn't allowed into his own office today. What ? It's a one-man place.

    wtf is wrong with people ? You can't catch a virus from a desk, a machining ccenter, or a bandsaw. If I hadda little shop in the US I'd be in there working my ass off right now. No distractions

    Quote Originally Posted by Newman109
    I'm GD sick and tired of people running down my country, America,
    Then shut your fucking mouth with the constant string of stupid lies about other countries. Turn about is fair play, asshole.

  18. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    You can't catch a virus from a desk, a machining ccenter, or a bandsaw.
    Actually, one CAN. The transmission danger duration on various materials has already been researched and published.

    Copper is righteous. As usual.

    Fool.

  19. #34
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    78% of americans live paycheck to paycheck. That means 1 month, tops, before they cant pay the rent or the mortgage.

    About 3 million people work in restaurants.
    Around $1 Trillion a year worth of GDP.
    That is drying up as we speak.

    I probably know 50 people, including my son, who were working last week, and have no job today, as all restaurants and bars in my state have been shut down.

    Most of these people belong to the 40% of americans WITH JOBS who make $18,000 a year or less.
    The old bromide of "get a better job" sure aint gonna work this month, or next, or, probably, this year.

    As we used to say back in the day- Shit Just Got Real.

    Optimistic Trump toady economists are already predicting 1 million newly unemployed next month, but I think thats about 1/4 of what we will see soon. And it will impact all of us.

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  21. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by yoke View Post
    I was writing up a help wanted ad not long ago and decided it would be worth tabling for the time being. We are down to 3 full time and 2 part time so I see no reason to not come to work.

    Just this week I have been seeing good work come across my desk. The machines are busy and so am I. as long as I can get material and cutting tools I can run for a few months on the work I have now. I'll put it this way, If our shop can't outlive this situation then every one of us if up a creek.

    When all this blows over I'm going to start a prepper website to capitalize on this new found market...

    I'd like to hear an update from you this weekend, and next weekend and see if you are still so optomistic.

    This will have immediate ramifications greater than '29, but not likely very long lasting IMO.


    Other than a few that have lots of reserves out looking for screaming deals this next few weeks, I don't see anyone buying any non-essentials.
    Cars, boats, houses....

    I expect Detroit (Marysville and Alabama) to shut down by this weekend.


    Git to werk gitt'n everything out the door this week as fast as you can before you git cancellations, and then sit on your hands the next month is what I expect.


    ------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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  23. #36
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    We're under a nationwide military imposed quarantine now since yesterday and in as little as 48 hours it is obvious that this will be devastating for us.

    All businesses non essential are ordered closed until April 15th. Only Grocery stores, Hospital, and Pharmacies and restaurants offering takeout are allowed to operate, and travel is restricted to those going to work or for food/medical. I've been in Asia a long time and have been through simple quarantines before but nothing like this.

    I had to go to the supermarket today and entry is restricted to 10 customers at a time with limited purchasing. All the roads are empty when usually you’re sitting in traffic for an hour to go 5 miles. This really is worse than people think. Not because of the virus but the fear from the people.

    I figure USA and Europe will take the hardest hit (economically) though. The Philippines has 1/3rd the population of USA yet USA has 27 times the amount infected. I'm figuring that number will explode in the next two weeks exponentially. Not because of the virus itself but rather there will be more test kits available to show more have it than previously thought. This in turn will perpetuate the panic buying so much that what was seen in the last two weeks will look like an everyday trip to the store.

    We've already had several customers placing orders on hold and it's obvious that more will follow suit. This is just the beginning of the trickle down effect USA and Europe has on the world economy. I'm just having to buckle down and move everything to outsourcing.

    Hang on everybody, This is gonna be a rough ride. Americans won't be able to handle confinement so if a quarantine is imposed it will be a social disaster. I can hear it now "It's my god given right to go where I want".

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Actually, one CAN. The transmission danger duration on various materials has already been researched and published.
    Well, if your Bridgeport is so badly trained that it goes out to the bar for a couple after you leave for the evening, then I guess so.

    Otherwise, if it's your shop and your machine and you shut the door, not real likely that vmc is going to catch a virus.

    Fool.
    Takes one to know one
    -- Herodotus

    Quote Originally Posted by g-coder05
    All businesses non essential are ordered closed until April 15th
    See, we didn't have that. We got closed, but there was no date. It was "when things are safe again." And they did loosen up gradually as soon as numbers decreased. They put quite a bit of effort into getting things running again. Interesting difference.

  25. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    I'd like to hear an update from you this weekend, and next weekend and see if you are still so optomistic.

    This will have immediate ramifications greater than '29, but not likely very long lasting IMO.


    Other than a few that have lots of reserves out looking for screaming deals this next few weeks, I don't see anyone buying any non-essentials.
    Cars, boats, houses....

    I expect Detroit (Marysville and Alabama) to shut down by this weekend.


    Git to werk gitt'n everything out the door this week as fast as you can before you git cancellations, and then sit on your hands the next month is what I expect.


    ------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox


    I'm not optimistic. I think our country is in for a world of hurt with the rest of the world getting a ride along. I'm just saying that from a cash flow standpoint we will be able to live long enough for the cash to not really matter anymore.

    This is going to get ugly for many many Americans and anyone who thinks we will be having a merry Christmas is going to be in for a surprise.

    I'm planting a bigger garden than usual this year.

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  27. #39
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    We ordered in enough material to keep us running for the next several months. We own the property we are moving to but still have a payment on the one we are leaving. Our inventory is the lowest it has been in years as the process of moving has us producing little or nothing about 8 days a month and has for several months. We have not been doing much other than working for a long time now so going out and about has had us in self quarentine for quite a while anyhow other than grocery stores and fuel stations. 3 or 4 months of no orders would just about let us get caught back up to our normal amount of being behind but if it goes on much longer than that it will become uncomfortable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dupa3872 View Post
    The Mayor of Boston just put a few thousand construction workers off the job, My brother being one of them. I need to stop writing now before I cross the line of no return. I'm tired of these fools running our lives. They are living off our hard work and continue to tie one hand behind our backs.

    Ron
    Dupa, might not be entirely as foolish as it seems to you now. Boston has a number of cases and not much testing. If a couple of those construction workers have the virus but just think it's a cold, a good number of those thousands of workers could easily get it, come home to infect their families, visit the parents, etc. You and your brother still have a mom or dad alive? Maybe even grandparents?

    Then Boston is Italy. (OK, part of Boston already is Italy . . .)

    Possible scenario if we don't get our shit together: 'This is like a war': view from Italy's coronavirus frontline | World news | The Guardian

    Sensible way to do it might be to test workers - have the ones testing positive stay home on paid leave (assumes testing kits available). The rest keep a bit of distance if they can, take some precautions. Some still get sick, get tested and go home to ride it out. Meanwhile the others are already coming back to work. Even in the absence of testing, there are probably some jobs that could and should be done with distance between and less effective testing (temperatures, symptoms, still paid leave for those sick). This approach is also how companies across the US could stay open. Testing is the key.

    Abundance of caution approach is to just shut things down, at least until we get test kits widely available. If you really want to see a covering-asses move, late last night my county public health MD did a shelter in place order. Seemed to be written for her by three lawyers and required a couple readings to understand the fine print. And missing a couple sensible exceptions to piss even me off.

    Don't know about Boston's order and its own fine print. But this virus is like a fire (even, in a way mathematically) - best way to put it out is to hit it hard and when it's small.


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