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  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Will they? How many have been cured by our medical resources? What is that cure?
    All in favor of slowing the spread but do we just make it last longer?
    There is no cure but putting people on ventilators makes them live long enough to survive. Something like 15% of the people who catch this end up in ICU. Some percentage of that dies anyhow but given good care, most make it.

    Without ventilators they would all die. So say you let it loose and 50% of the people catch it, then 15% of those die. My math is not good with big numbers, but I get 7.5% of the population ?

    That's a pretty big hit. Would be better for the world but I don't think most people would go for that.


    While it may be in the trillions the government only has so much money. 1200 dollars per person does not go very far. Unemployment funds will dry up fast at this new pace.
    We could recognize that money is just a convenient myth that we don't really need. We could easily do without for a month. Just cancel all debts for everyone ... or actually, delay them until the year 2525, if man is still alive. Pretend that month never existed.

    It would work fine.

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    We could recognize that money is just a convenient myth that we don't really need. We could easily do without for a month. Just cancel all debts for everyone ... or actually, delay them until the year 2525, if man is still alive. Pretend that month never existed.

    It would work fine.
    It already has.

    G'Dad needed to find a house when the "Great" Depression forced him to close New Era Printing, sell up, pay 100 cents on the dollar, still have a few bucks. Moved out of the quarters over the print shop.

    Bank had a foreclosure. "If you can find even five dollars a month, we can make it yours."

    He had scouted it well. Moved G'mum, self, amd me mum into the second floor, both Uncles into the Attic, rented first floor and basement with the second toilet out to another family.. for five bucks a month!



    Times got better.

    House was demo'ed years ago, after being "home" to two generations. I still own that lot.

    Can't GIVE it away!

    It was the lesson as held all the value.

    Can't TAKE that away!


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  4. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Will they? How many have been cured by our medical resources? What is that cure?
    All in favor of slowing the spread but do we just make it last longer?
    Bob, either you are being combative or shamefully ignorant.

    It is common knowledge at this point that unlike the flu, an alarming percentage of patients who recover from this virus require ventilator support. One of the primary functions of slowing down the spread is to ensure that medical capacity can keep up.

    Sharing statistics that suggest this is blown out of proportion, while missing the basics, is just contributing to all of the crazy misinformation.

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  6. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Once this is over what else do we need to outlaw?
    Bob
    Well......
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails hand.jpg  

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  8. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by boosted View Post
    For Pete's sake, have you seen how overwhelmed the medical infrastructure is right now!? You are absolutely being flippant.

    Mortality rates will go up significantly if we run out of medical resources. However, if the quarantines etc... work effectively, then the numbers will stay low, and we will feel like we did it for nothing. As a relatively young and healthy adult, I'm not very worried about my health, but I am concerned about doing my part to slow the spread.
    No, most of us haven't "seen" how overwhelmed the medical system is, we've seen stories about it.

    I'd like to know more detail including how institutions that were never overwhelmed by some of the worst flu outbreaks of the past are now crippled by a smaller number of COVID-19 patients. And what about flu? Has it magically disappeared or is IT what is really overwhelming the system?

    PS: Instead of quarantines that deprive people of exercise, fresh air and sunshine, possibly increasing infection of small groups and prolonging the crisis, perhaps we ought to focus instead on TREATMENT of the sick. In addition to reports of success with anti-malarial drugs numerous doctors have reported success with IVs of intense vitamin C.

    Of course successful treatment won't force the social and political changes we want.

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  10. #146
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    Yunno - this winter (or lack of a real "winter" more than likely being the main issue here) has been really bad for all kinds of sicks going around.
    This little 19 yr old Co-Ed is only one pc of the problem.
    But the sequestering will help slow the spread of all, not just the one in the news.


    ----------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

  11. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by boosted View Post
    Bob, either you are being combative or shamefully ignorant.

    It is common knowledge at this point that unlike the flu, an alarming percentage of patients who recover from this virus require ventilator support. One of the primary functions of slowing down the spread is to ensure that medical capacity can keep up.

    Sharing statistics that suggest this is blown out of proportion, while missing the basics, is just contributing to all of the crazy misinformation.
    That "common knowledge" is derived from STORIES repeated endlessly by the media, not confirmed facts.

    Are you an ICU doctor treating a large number of patients?

  12. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    That "common knowledge" is derived from STORIES repeated endlessly by the media, not confirmed facts.
    Are you fucking kidding me? So damn sick of everything being charged with identity politics. When is it a confirmed fact? When your cousin's brother-in-law's doctor says so? Once they declare it a fact on right wing talk radio? When you are in the hospital on a ventilator?

    We live in a global society. It's impossible for any one person to see everything, everywhere with their own eyes. Most of us know people who have been directly affected by this at this point.

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  14. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    Are you an ICU doctor treating a large number of patients?
    He is

    covid-19 report (again)

  15. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by boosted View Post
    Are you fucking kidding me? So damn sick of everything being charged with identity politics. When is it a confirmed fact? When your cousin's brother-in-law's doctor says so? Once they declare it a fact on right wing talk radio? When you are in the hospital on a ventilator?

    We live in a global society. It's impossible for any one person to see everything, everywhere with their own eyes. Most of us know people who have been directly affected by this at this point.
    So you believe everything "they" tell you?

    A wise man views everything as raw input and tries to sieve out bits of truth by examining conflicting sources, testing one against another with logic and reason.

    Want an example? Years ago when they were telling us that AIDS was going to infect half the population of the world I read an alarming article in the Boston Globe talking about the "explosion" of cases in Africa. Reading toward the end of the article I found statistics on one of the hardest hit countries. Comparing number of victims with the total population (both given) showed the infection rate at something like 3 out of a hundred thousand.

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    Scott I never said anything regarding infection rates, etc... I absolutely believe that the media is fear mongering, and it is totally possible that this is blown out of proportion.

    It also appears to be pretty well documented that in the places where this is spreading, there is a huge tax on the medical infrastructure -to the point of being overwhelmed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by boosted View Post
    For Pete's sake, have you seen how overwhelmed the medical infrastructure is right now!? You are absolutely being flippant.
    Curious what you all think of this move. I just received texts from both the general practitioner and cardiologist I see. It said neither is taking new appointments starting immediately for an indefinite period of time. I suppose since I already have a future appointment 3 and 6 months out with each I am ok. I see that move will do nothing but jam hospital emergency rooms. I am sure there are plenty of people like me that get adjustments to medications from time to time. Now those people won't be getting the medication adjustments needed to maintain their health, then when they do go downhill they will end up at the already over burdened hospitals.

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  20. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    I am sure there are plenty of people like me that get adjustments to medications from time to time. Now those people won't be getting the medication adjustments needed to maintain their health, then when they do go downhill they will end up at the already over burdened hospitals.
    We did all that over Skype (actually wechat but same thing) and all prescriptions were extended three months. And you could get home delivery.

  21. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    So you believe everything "they" tell you?

    A wise man views everything as raw input and tries to sieve out bits of truth by examining conflicting sources, testing one against another with logic and reason.

    Want an example? Years ago when they were telling us that AIDS was going to infect half the population of the world I read an alarming article in the Boston Globe talking about the "explosion" of cases in Africa. Reading toward the end of the article I found statistics on one of the hardest hit countries. Comparing number of victims with the total population (both given) showed the infection rate at something like 3 out of a hundred thousand.
    At that time only spreading among those that "got a piece of the Rock".
    (Not to be cornfused with The Rock of today...)


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    Think Snow Eh!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    Curious what you all think of this move. I just received texts from both the general practitioner and cardiologist I see. It said neither is taking new appointments starting immediately for an indefinite period of time. I suppose since I already have a future appointment 3 and 6 months out with each I am ok. I see that move will do nothing but jam hospital emergency rooms. I am sure there are plenty of people like me that get adjustments to medications from time to time. Now those people won't be getting the medication adjustments needed to maintain their health, then when they do go downhill they will end up at the already over burdened hospitals.
    I got a voice mail from my Dr saying to call ahead if you think you might be infected so they can be prepared for you I guess?

  23. #156
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    I was just in yesterday for my annual physical.............my local rural healthcare system designated one of their small town clinics as a "healthy" clinic. They see all the routine stuff................The main hospital only takes emergencies and urgent care....no clinic visits............. and the other satellite clinics take the sick..........................

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    No, most of us haven't "seen" how overwhelmed the medical system is, we've seen stories about it.
    smart person learns from his own mistakes, wise person learns from the mistakes others made, an idiot denies there have been mistakes made.

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  26. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    I got a voice mail from my Dr saying to call ahead if you think you might be infected so they can be prepared for you I guess?
    I went to a Doctor. Right about age 65. ten years back. Medicare privilege. Kind of a "novelty", Doctoring, so I thought to try it out.

    His office lady called me a year later to come in for an "annual physical".

    Declined. Nothing had changed. Haven't had contact, since. Seemed a waste of time.

    I'm still as good as such things are allowed to be, ten years on.

    Not as if they could send me off for a rebuild. Surely not at prices as could be justified.

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  28. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post

    Not as if they could send me off for a rebuild. Surely not at prices as could be justified.
    Off to the scrap heap with ya....................

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  30. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by boosted View Post
    Scott I never said anything regarding infection rates, etc... I absolutely believe that the media is fear mongering, and it is totally possible that this is blown out of proportion.

    It also appears to be pretty well documented that in the places where this is spreading, there is a huge tax on the medical infrastructure -to the point of being overwhelmed.
    Question is: what is overwhelming it?

    Is it just a massive number of coronavirus cases, influenza cases, or just panicked people with "normal" upper respiratory illnesses besieging hospitals demanding to be "saved" from the dread coronavirus.

    This is what fear does, not only to individuals but also to systems. Non-medical workers in hospitals are likely also consuming PPE as instructed by administrators and helping to burn through the supply much more quickly than during a "normal" flu season.

    The numbers don't add up, nor does the "response" to the virus. NYC is supposedly locked down except for critical personnel and everyone out is supposed to maintain "social distancing" yet just this morning the usual talking heads (Michael, Robin, and George) at NBC's Good Morning America were seated in their usual places on the set. That means they have not only been declared essential personnel (along with the rest of the media) but are unconcerned being in that close proximity to each other.

    I've seen other shows where they pretend to be teleconferencing from home, with each in a separate panel on the screen, but with a resolution never before seen from remote sources and on more than one occasion while sharing a joke one turned to their left at the same time another turned to the right. They appear to be in the same studio but filmed to make it appear as if they are not. If so that is not news but propaganda.

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