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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by neilho View Post
    Which definition of special is that?

    I'm thinking "special exceptions" should have "special" conditions.

    Special customers, on the other hand, pick the parts up in person, pay cash and hang around for a chat of exactly the right length.
    I agree completely, I had a special customer in last week. He came up to pick up some work, and dropped off more while he was here. Only looked at the bill to know the amount to write on the check. Visited for a bit, asked a few questions, then said he didn't want to take up anymore of my time. Indeed, a special customer and I would make any number of special exceptions for them.

    It would be a bit of a story and explanation for you to understand why the person thought they were special. Case and point, if I told you the persons name, you would likely have no clue who they are.

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    It is relatively easy to get a judgment against a defendant in small claims court but it can be extremely difficult to collect if you win. Furthermore, in most states, the defendant can appeal, which results in what is actually a new trial for the defendant.
    Also, collecting is like pulling teeth and you could wind up with "bupkis".

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  5. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by cnctoolcat View Post
    Why is it such a large percentage of the American population such financial deadbeats?

    It certainly carries over to business owners as well.

    It is amazing to me how banks and financial institutions actually survive!! How in the HELL do they get people and companies to actually pay their loans back every month??
    Apparently the back their debtors as Presidential candidates and make out like bandits



    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    First of all, it is the principle, and the money.

    Not everyone who doesn't pay does so because he can't afford it. It's just a way of life for some.

    Yup, apparently a way of life that wins you the respect and admiration of 60 million morons

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  7. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    As the child of attornies, first you should learn to spell "lose". And second you should know that attornies are not allowed in small claims so there is no "pay for their legal defense" allowed.
    Ah, you've shown excellent trolling skills, and yes, spell-check tends to be more incorrective than corrective. You can thank programmers for their prowess, sir.

    There is no law ANYWHERE which prohibits attornies in small claims court... they have every right to appear there all the time on their own behalf.

    Some states have their rules about legal representation, your experience clearly hasn't been with one that allows it at small claims level, I assure you that in MY county of MY state, it happens all the time. I can even hire a lawyer to appear in small claims court on my behalf... I have had to do it because I was unable to appear on my own.

    But let's pretend that your'e correct...

    You've demonstrated a narrow perception of the cost of legal defense. As a defendant, take a day off work, pay for fuel to drive, pay for a parking pass, wait in line... those are all costs of defense. Doing the same to prosecute any case, contributes to the cost of prosecution. In the scheme of things, the act of litigation, is no different from the act of war- it is an economic burdon.

    Let's say that, on a given day, in a one-man job-shop, you can turn around $5500 in recievables to a short-notice, short-run just-in-time client. Now, tell that client you can't respond, because you're gonna be downtown fighting for a $2100 judgement that you'll never get a penny out of.

    Re-read the rules- It doesn't matter if you win, if there's nothing to win- you've still lost.
    It's not a spectacularly new concept- Sun Tzu noted it what... 2500 years ago?

    Oldsmobile did not manufacture a 450 engine. 400, 425, and 455, but no '450'.

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  9. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveKamp View Post
    Let's say that, on a given day, in a one-man job-shop, you can turn around $5500 in receivables to a short-notice, short-run just-in-time client.
    Say WHAT!? One man job shop? $5500 in a day? Jesus... I suck at this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveKamp View Post
    There is no law ANYWHERE which prohibits attornies in small claims court... they have every right to appear there all the time on their own behalf.
    "on their own behalf". OP is not an attorney, in California he could not hire one to represent him in small claims.

    Looks like Iowa is less enlightened. No surprise.

    Let's say that, on a given day, in a one-man job-shop, you can turn around $5500 in recievables to a short-notice, short-run just-in-time client.
    What planet do you live on ?

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    I am an attorney, now retired. I often appeared in Small Claims Court on my own behalf collecting unpaid fees from dead-beat clients. I also had many clients who consulted with me on small claims cases and I would do their papers to file. I also assisted with service of process and general legal information.

    Small claims is a good thing but as mentioned earlier, it's often difficult to collect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by metal-ica View Post
    Shit on his porch.
    or his windshield. That'll get someones attention. You could wipe your ass with a copy of his statement.

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    Let's say that, on a given day, in a one-man job-shop, you can turn around $5500 in recievables to a short-notice, short-run just-in-time client.

    What planet do you live on ?
    Obviously one a bit more effective than you're accustomed.

    I'm on the OTHER side of the table for most guys here- My machine shop is strictly a personal shop, but it serves me as prototyping facilities for my regular occupation. Once I've developed solutions for problems, I have to get them in production, which means I HIRE others to produce the volume of parts I need, at a high rapidity. Small shops offer me first-name service and response, so I use them constantly. It is not unusual for me to make pickups of 5K and higher value on a particular day, but more frequently, 10k. I have several one-man shops that've grown their capacity doing my production. Over the course of the last four years, with just ONE component kit, I've had job shops manufacture 218,000lbs of parts. SOME of those parts are time-sensitive, many are not... but when there's field circumstances that warrant parts my company needs, the most precious and irreplaceable resource is TIME, not money. If I'm scheduling a pickup for Tuesday, I'm there on Tuesday.

    If you're not attracting this kind of customer base, there is probably a really good reason.

    If you re-read my response to the OP's circumstance more carefully, you'll realize that my point was that the question of HOW to approach the unpaid recievable, is in itself an economic burdon. Sending good money, after bad, is foolish... as it frequently assures you'll lose more, and gain none, which in basic math, is an even greater loss than walking away.

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    I don't see doing $5k+ a day frequently as a one man shop, but it's not unheard of.

    A lot of places have emergencies and need parts now. If I drop everything and save your day I don't have a problem charging enough to make up for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garwood View Post
    I don't see doing $5k+ a day frequently as a one man shop, but it's not unheard of.
    Let's be generous and assume a ten hour day. At $5500 that would be $550 an hour.

    Right.

    A lot of places have emergencies and need parts now. If I drop everything and save your day I don't have a problem charging enough to make up for it.
    And you remember those jobs with a smile for ten years.

    The guy is nuts. $500 a day is more like the reality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Let's be generous and assume a ten hour day. At $5500 that would be $550 an hour.

    Right.


    .
    agreed, if.....

    -its one guy,
    -its job shop not a product.
    -the 5500 is billable shop work, i.e. there's not 4700 of it materials.
    - its machining being traded. not high end escort work or litigation

    It seems a bit silly to think that's a daily benchmark

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Let's be generous and assume a ten hour day. At $5500 that would be $550 an hour.

    Right.
    And you remember those jobs with a smile for ten years.

    The guy is nuts. $500 a day is more like the reality.

    Grow up, troll- I am most certainly NOT nuts, you clearly miss the point, and don't know what it takes to run a shop or maintain customers.


    If you had a customer place a $5000 order, required it to be ready for pickup on Wednesday the 19th at NOON...

    ... And you decided it was more important to spend the day at the county courthouse fighting for a $1500 unpaid receipt...


    You'd be sitting in your shop wondering how the next utility bill will get paid, and why your customer list no longer includes THAT company.


    THAT is why I say one should be well aware that the COST OF LITIGATION extends far beyond a simpleton's math.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    agreed, if.....

    -its one guy,
    -its job shop not a product.
    -the 5500 is billable shop work, i.e. there's not 4700 of it materials.
    - its machining being traded. not high end escort work or litigation
    Claim was you can make $5500 in the time it takes to go through a small claims procedure. Not on this planet.

    As to your point one, let's say it's a ten man shop. That would make sense. So all ten of them have to stand around while one guy goes to court ?

    The guy is out of touch, has no idea what the realities of a machine shop are. So his advice is ..... (fill in the blank.)

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveKamp
    If you had a customer place a $5000 order, required it to be ready for pickup on Wednesday the 19th at NOON...

    ... And you decided it was more important to spend the day at the county courthouse fighting for a $1500 unpaid receipt...
    What if aliens beamed your car up and subjected you to an anal probe ? OMG, what shall we do ? Tell the aliens you have an appointment for pickup at NOON ?!?!

    Or maybe the President will call and ask you for an interview to explain the difference between climb and conventional, but you have to be in court ! Oh noes ! What shall we do ?

    Da bebe Jesus cried, this is so silly. Get real. Going to small claims for a couple hours is trivial, and it's worth it for the education. You pay to learn.

  22. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Claim was you can make $5500 in the time it takes to go through a small claims procedure. Not on this planet.

    As to your point one, let's say it's a ten man shop. That would make sense. So all ten of them have to stand around while one guy goes to court ?
    I wasn't following the bouncing ball too closely.....just speaking to the 5500/day thing. Agree not possible unless one my conditions (or maybe others) was present

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    If you dont chase slow pays ,the word quickly gets around....same as if you go nuts when they are 7 days late...word quickly gets around.........Its like having a big dog....the deadbeats go somewhere else.

  24. #77
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    I wonder if Experian will try to get money from the Chinese army hackers. Then they can go after the stuff sold in the USA but made in Chinese army factories? Or since they claim to be communists any business in China is part of the whole commune.
    Bil lD.

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    1 star google reviews have been a more successful method of getting payment than small claims court for me.



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