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  1. #61
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    Russ,

    I write as someone who worked for my dad for about a year and quit and also as a dad who has had one miserable failure of an experience with one of my kids working for me and thus far a very positive experience with another of my kids working for me.

    Even with this experience, I wouldn't presume to give you advice with your son . . . I have gotten old enough raising kids to realize every kid and situation is different and ready answers tossed over the internet after reading a few paragraphs are worth what you paid for them.

    Now about hiring . . . we use Indeed and we use Craigslist. We have two ads in the commerce section on the PM that link to Craigslist ads. This approach has worked well for us, and we have posted ads in other large metropolitan areas and relocated people to Washington State to get the right people.

    A few tips
    - create an e-mail address specifically for recruiting so all the e-mails go to one place that you can shut down when your recruiting effort is done.

    - figure out a rating scheme to categorize the resumes when they come in. We use <Interview>, <Not at this time>, <Not qualified>

    - be prompt when monitoring the e-mails / resumes coming in. Put together a gracious / respectful form letter letting people know you received the resume and send that to them when you categorize the e-mail. It should say that you will contact them soon if after reviewing the resume you believe their skills / experience would be a good match for your company's needs.

    - ask them to provide a salary history as well so that you have a sense of their expectations

    Finding skilled people with experience and a teachable humble attitude requires a lot of work and a fair amount of time. But when you get the right person, it is well worth the effort.

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    I had a long conversation with a local delivery driver from Riverside. He's just started with a company at $23/hr, after probation he'll be on $25/hr. Weeks are long because he ends up in LA at the end of the day, and because of traffic etc he averages 65-70 hr weeks, and he gets paid overtime. He'll never make that in an Inland Empire machine shop.

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    That is a shame but yes the guys setting the Meijer's trucks here in Michigan are paid about $23 per..Couple of my old Boy Scouts are working there.

    What would one figure the CNC machine and costs would be per hour excluding the operator, machinist.

    Agree just flipping parts not a tough task but responsible for not causing wrecks is important.

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    My opinion .. add much higher pay.
    Much. Double etc..

    Endless extremely qualified people will appear.
    You can tell *some* of them "I need You to make x0.000$ / month in parts - figure it out".
    Pay people. Empower people. Give them tools and resources. Give them credit. Make them responsible.
    Get rich.

    Most smart capable people can do 2-3x the economic profit they have ever done, if the owner wants to.
    Ime.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hanermo View Post
    My opinion .. add much higher pay.
    Much. Double etc..

    Endless extremely qualified people will appear.
    You can tell *some* of them "I need You to make x0.000$ / month in parts - figure it out".
    Pay people. Empower people. Give them tools and resources. Give them credit. Make them responsible.
    Get rich.

    Most smart capable people can do 2-3x the economic profit they have ever done, if the owner wants to.
    Ime.
    Wonder how the son feels that when he leaves, the new guy is getting 2x
    the wages he did.....

  8. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    Wonder how the son feels that when he leaves, the new guy is getting 2x
    the wages he did.....
    That's how it goes. Been there done that (not for a family member though). When I came back at 2X the pay I got 2 years before, people bitched. I told them that if they were prepared to take a risk on failing while learning new stuff, they'd probably get ahead faster too. It wasn't a popular comment.

    More power to the son for getting out there & trying something new. I've been told that you regret the things you didn't do a lot more than the things you had a go at and failed.

    PDW

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    Russ,

    Don't you love it when you ask a question and people insist on going over your whole life story as if they are qualified to judge the in's and out's of your sons life and career goals and interests and your business goals and interests and the father-son relationship and all of that... and all through a single post on the internet?

    Come on guys - I think we can take Russ at his word that his son wants to drive trucks and that he and his son know each other well enough that he doesn't need to explain the thought process to all of OUR satisfaction. Jesus FC!

    Regarding employees, my advice to you is...

    -Pay above market rate and demand excellence. $5/hr is only $200/week which is nothing in the grand scheme of things if it's the difference between a guy/girl that is getting the job done above and beyond your expectations compared to someone that needs their ass ridden and watched over constantly, and who scraps parts and breaks tools here and there and who you can't really trust to do a job right on their own.
    -Be quick to let someone go when you realize you haven't got the right person. There's no sense in investing time trying to work with someone when there's a fundamental problem.
    -Having said the above, don't try to find perfection. Your son was molded to do all the tasks you have in your shop, nobody else has done all those exact tasks. Pay attention more to overall competence, character traits and how well they fit in rather than passing on someone that seems like a great fit just because they have run Okuma and you use Fanuc controls, for example.
    -I've had success with ZipRecruiter. Others mentioned Indeed. Whatever site you use, ask for a resume and cover letter. Be clear about what you are looking for and what you offer (and the work environment). IIRC you have a home shop or a facility on your land rather than a commercial building? Nothing wrong with that - some people much prefer a small biz environment. But better to make the deal known up front rather than wasting time on folks expecting a Fortune 500 corporate job type deal.
    -Not sure where in MA you are, but on the North Shore, I think $25/hr with benefits is solid pay for a skilled CNC machinist. Benefits aren't as expensive as you may think... not sure who you use for payroll now, I use PayChex and it's not much for them to handle 401k and other benefits administration. At that rate, you should be getting a very high quality person and no bullshit.
    -It's never a bad idea to hire everyone on a 90-day temp-to-perm basis. People will show their true colors within 90 days, and if they suck, you just decline to extend their 90-day contract into a full-time gig.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SRT Mike View Post
    Russ,

    Don't you love it when you ask a question and people insist on going over your whole life story as if they are qualified to judge the in's and out's of your sons life and career goals and interests and your business goals and interests and the father-son relationship and all of that... and all through a single post on the internet?

    Come on guys - I think we can take Russ at his word that his son wants to drive trucks and that he and his son know each other well enough that he doesn't need to explain the thought process to all of OUR satisfaction. Jesus FC!

    Regarding employees, my advice to you is...

    -Pay above market rate and demand excellence. $5/hr is only $200/week which is nothing in the grand scheme of things if it's the difference between a guy/girl that is getting the job done above and beyond your expectations compared to someone that needs their ass ridden and watched over constantly, and who scraps parts and breaks tools here and there and who you can't really trust to do a job right on their own.
    -Be quick to let someone go when you realize you haven't got the right person. There's no sense in investing time trying to work with someone when there's a fundamental problem.
    -Having said the above, don't try to find perfection. Your son was molded to do all the tasks you have in your shop, nobody else has done all those exact tasks. Pay attention more to overall competence, character traits and how well they fit in rather than passing on someone that seems like a great fit just because they have run Okuma and you use Fanuc controls, for example.
    -I've had success with ZipRecruiter. Others mentioned Indeed. Whatever site you use, ask for a resume and cover letter. Be clear about what you are looking for and what you offer (and the work environment). IIRC you have a home shop or a facility on your land rather than a commercial building? Nothing wrong with that - some people much prefer a small biz environment. But better to make the deal known up front rather than wasting time on folks expecting a Fortune 500 corporate job type deal.
    -Not sure where in MA you are, but on the North Shore, I think $25/hr with benefits is solid pay for a skilled CNC machinist. Benefits aren't as expensive as you may think... not sure who you use for payroll now, I use PayChex and it's not much for them to handle 401k and other benefits administration. At that rate, you should be getting a very high quality person and no bullshit.
    -It's never a bad idea to hire everyone on a 90-day temp-to-perm basis. People will show their true colors within 90 days, and if they suck, you just decline to extend their 90-day contract into a full-time gig.
    All good stuff Mike. Also, we bought a building a few towns over about 5 years ago and moved the shop there. Wish I had done that many years ago!

  12. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by motion guru View Post
    Russ,

    I write as someone who worked for my dad for about a year and quit and also as a dad who has had one miserable failure of an experience with one of my kids working for me and thus far a very positive experience with another of my kids working for me.

    Even with this experience, I wouldn't presume to give you advice with your son . . . I have gotten old enough raising kids to realize every kid and situation is different and ready answers tossed over the internet after reading a few paragraphs are worth what you paid for them.

    Now about hiring . . . we use Indeed and we use Craigslist. We have two ads in the commerce section on the PM that link to Craigslist ads. This approach has worked well for us, and we have posted ads in other large metropolitan areas and relocated people to Washington State to get the right people.

    A few tips
    - create an e-mail address specifically for recruiting so all the e-mails go to one place that you can shut down when your recruiting effort is done.

    - figure out a rating scheme to categorize the resumes when they come in. We use <Interview>, <Not at this time>, <Not qualified>

    - be prompt when monitoring the e-mails / resumes coming in. Put together a gracious / respectful form letter letting people know you received the resume and send that to them when you categorize the e-mail. It should say that you will contact them soon if after reviewing the resume you believe their skills / experience would be a good match for your company's needs.

    - ask them to provide a salary history as well so that you have a sense of their expectations

    Finding skilled people with experience and a teachable humble attitude requires a lot of work and a fair amount of time. But when you get the right person, it is well worth the effort.

    I appreciate all the great advice, and will certainly value the tips you've given!

    Enjoy the weekend!
    Russ

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    Pay above market rate and demand excellence. $5/hr is only $200/week
    At a dollar a minute, that's only 5 extra minutes of productivity an hour..

    $200 a week.. That could be just one or 2 less scrapped parts, one or 2 less broken endmills.
    Do they put off their break for 2 minutes until the cycle ends to put in a new part.. Same
    for the morning dump.. Can they take the part out, and put a new one in in 30 seconds or do
    they have to fuck around forever to the point all the cooling fans on the machine shut down.

    In a machine shop, I don't believe the extra pay so much reflects the extra productivity (though
    that is important), but it shows up in how much they don't fuck up.. How much extra tooling
    you DIDN'T have to buy, How much extra material you DIDN'T have to buy, how much time you DIDN'T
    waste running more parts, How much time you DIDN'T waste doing rework..

    How much time and aggravation did you save because that person didn't screw all that stuff up..
    That's worth a LOT.

    Pay 'em as well as you can, and treat them well (and that costs NOTHING) and people will bend
    over backwards for you... Its really amazing how far a Thank You goes.. It goes even further
    when you actually mean it.

  14. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by AARONT View Post
    Although the last year has been pretty difficult to find anyone with half a brain in our area via any job board.
    My Ophthalmologist lost her long term (over 20 years) Office Manager 3 years ago. She used Craigslist to post the job. Within an hour she had over 30 applicants. She hired one. Then fired her. Then hired another. And fired her. And as of now has burned through 5 people - all from Craigslist.

    Based on that I'd say you won't have trouble finding applicants. But you will have to figure out how to identify the gem from the HUGE amount of junk that walks in the door.

    Gary

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    I believe your son realised how much time you spend on PM and decide to leave...
    Now you have to make your own living

    Nobody can give you advice.
    Only you know your situation is and what you really need

    Last 2 hires did not turn well for you.
    Look for personality, people who care..

    Anybody Can have good resume...like you will check what is on it...

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    Russ, How's it going ? How is your son making out ? How about an update.

    Ron

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    He's been pretty quiet lately. He may be down in the trenches, or training a new hire. Hopefully he was able to find someone.

    Would like to hear how it's going too.

  18. #75
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    Wrustle, kudos for having open, honest communications lines within the family, including those working for you. Listening and understanding their life goals may be different from yours is important. You raised 'em to be able to make it on their own, and you understand them when they decide to do just that.

    Came here from this thread:
    http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...op-off-350605/

    Seems there are folks sitting around in your neck of the woods twiddling their thumbs with nothing to do. They're ripe -- start pickin'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wrustle View Post
    So, I knew this day would come. Actually been dreading it for the last couple years.

    My son who has been with me since back in grammar school (he is turning 30 this year) is moving on to greener pastures.

    He has been my rock out in the shop, and there's virtually nothing he can't do out there on any of the machines, be they VMC's or Turn centers.

    Anyways.......it's not about the money, it's not about his skill set, it's 100% he just wants to do something else. Started school for his CDL back in October, and just passed his final evaluation last week.

    Next up is his road test, then he's off to start his new career driving trucks.........something he has always wanted to do. With several job offers already in his hand, his time with me is near.

    Very sad day.....very sad.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm VERY happy for him because he wants to do this and it is his dream. I'm living mine, so I'll be fine, but I also understand the feeling of pursuing such dreams and the feeling of achieving them, and I want that for him as well.

    It is bittersweet though. I will miss him terribly, but it will also bring some relief in the fact that if I were to walk out the door one day and never come back for whatever reason, (illness, accident, death) he will be just fine and be able to provide for himself, and not just rely on me being here for a job.

    We all know (myself, my wife, and my son) that he could not run the business, so if something were to happen to me, he would be lost and out of a job.


    So.........now the time has come to find a replacement for him.

    I have been rather fortunate over the years to find help locally just by word of mouth, but this time it is different, and I will require a much higher skill set than what I was finding before.


    To those of you in the hiring position, where are you looking for qualified candidates?

    Craigslist? Temp agencies? Job recruiting agencies? Does anyone under 50 even read the newspaper anymore or know what it is? Is it even a viable search method anymore?


    I would welcome your thoughts and ideas and most importantly, your proven methods if you want to share them.

    Right now I have to get back to work.............doomsday is approaching fast!


    Best Regards,
    Russ
    Have just noticed your thread now and have no advice to give on what you are looking for. What did cross my mind after I read your post that maybe, just maybe, his dream doesn't turn out to be what he'd hoped for and return. For whatever reason you don't seem to think he could have carried on your business if something happened to you so what you are in fact looking for is not a "replacement" for your son but a replacement for yourself when that time comes. The best scenario would be to find someone that can keep things going while you and your wife start thinking of retiring and enjoying life to the full. No I'm not thinking about the immediate future but with the right person (won't be cheap) you'd be safeguarding the future.

    In summation - find someone that can eventually replace you and not your son.

    Can't resist this

    slots.jpg

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  21. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by garyrice View Post
    My Ophthalmologist lost her long term (over 20 years) Office Manager 3 years ago. She used Craigslist to post the job. Within an hour she had over 30 applicants. She hired one. Then fired her. Then hired another. And fired her. And as of now has burned through 5 people - all from Craigslist.

    Based on that I'd say you won't have trouble finding applicants. But you will have to figure out how to identify the gem from the HUGE amount of junk that walks in the door.

    Gary
    That speaks more to the interview and hiring practices than Craigslist.

    Tom

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  23. #78
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    That speaks more to the interview and hiring practices than Craigslist.
    It also speaks to the damn sorriness and ineptitude of a good part of working America.

    I am amazed every day how such a large percentage of working-adults can be so damn dumb, yet actually hold gainful employment!

    I guess it's better than what a big chunk of working-age adults do: live off the system, or live off mom/dad, papaw/mamaw, boyfriend/girlfriend...

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    Quote Originally Posted by cnctoolcat View Post
    It also speaks to the damn sorriness and ineptitude of a good part of working America.

    I am amazed every day how such a large percentage of working-adults can be so damn dumb, yet actually hold gainful employment!

    I guess it's better than what a big chunk of working-age adults do: live off the system, or live off mom/dad, papaw/mamaw, boyfriend/girlfriend...
    Or the number of gov't employees.......................ugh............... ...

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  26. #80
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    Read all the posts, sorry, but no time to write tonight......................yup, you guessed it.



    ...........to be continued..................

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