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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    We're on the same page on all but the fact that [seemingly any] 55 yr old should be making $30/hr anywhere in the USA.
    Ox - On the same page now...

    My comment about making $30+ an hour by 55 - I don't think it's unreasonable really. Maybe his area is depressed economically/industrially, and has few options to move about. I guess that could be one reason for wages to be capped low.

    However, if that's not the case, then the only reason I can think of that someone would stick with this trade for (presumably) 20-30 years, and still be in the mid 20's, is that they've been stuck at the same place, doing the same job, for too long.

    I'm not advocating that a guy jump ship after 6 months, for another quarter per hour. But if after a few years the job has stagnated, and you've reached your full potential responsibilities/earnings for that job, then the only way to get something more, is to look for something better. That's what I did, and each time I moved, I brought all the previous experience to a new place, and was more valuable in terms of experience & skill, and also pay to the new job.

    Since many companies have given up pension plans in place of 401k programs where you can now roll-over funds, where is the incentive for the worker to stay in the same job for decades on end? The OP already mentioned that he doesn't have a pension. So what's his incentive to stay? Next week's paycheck?

    I realize I kind of sound like someone who knows no loyalty to their employer. Not so. However, when you (the employee) feels like a change in job will improve your life/wages/whatever, then you have an obligation to mind your personal-business, and go look for a better job/situation.

    I've sort of strayed from the OP's issue... But, I, like others in the thread, think a new/second job would be good for the OP - both in the "trial" period, and probably long-term.

  2. #42
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    The OP has been on this site and posted in other areas yet avoided commenting and answering questions in this thread. Not what he was hoping to hear?

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  4. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    Boy, that's a pretty broad stroke yuhr painting there.
    Sorta emulates a spray gun.


    ------------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    More like:
    Knight Manure 814 Slinger Spreader - Bing video

  5. #44
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    Funny story about side discharge spreaders:

    [as my chum told about his neighbor]

    If this fella needed to spread, and the fields weren't froze, he would throw from the road. Well it doesn't throw hard enough to get it all that far, and a fair amount of it ended up in the ditch. After enough times of dooing this, they turned him in to the DNR. (?)

    Well, nothing happened, and this guy kept dooing it. It may have been the third call to the DNR (?) that they edited the call to mention that "This ditch flows to the drainage that feeds Harrison Lake State Park".

    There was someone out there pronto.

    Can you say "Algae Bloom"?


    ---------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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  7. #45
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    A couple of years before my dariy farmer neighbor went out of business,
    he bought one of those, he was tired of the apron chain (on the old one)
    freezing down all the time.

    Those leetle tines (look like from a roto tiller) don't look like
    they could do much....but they sure do.

    He also said you have to watch which way the wind is blowing,
    as they really get it "finely atomized" when set right.

    He had a cow to bury, and the Ag office didn't want it in a hole,
    they said "Pile manure on top".

    Drove around it once with the gate set wide open, beaters slowed down.

    Must have buried it 2' deep in one pass.

  8. #46
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    Useful for some things though...

    How to Deal With City Hall - YouTube

    Dennis

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  10. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modelman View Post
    Useful for some things though...

    How to Deal With City Hall - YouTube

    Dennis
    That's the old "Flying Dutchman" design....not very good.

    should have used the new kind, would have put it thru the winders.

  11. #48
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    In this area if you spread manure at the wrong time or without a permit, you get a visit from the EPA. Fines are steep. Hog operations are the primary offenders spreading liquid. Not much dairy left here, you have a go a few miles further North.

  12. #49
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    " most aggressive lowest risk investment strategy"

    I don't believe in Mutual funds.
    Ive used them and the only one guaranteed to make money is the guy that sold them to you and the company that takes the management fee.


    Small rental property in a depressed area that will be improving
    That makes it affordable but rentable.

    Research "cash flow positive"

    Use the equity to borrow, improve it and that equity to do it again.


    Once they are paid off they just make money - but keep them up

    You can do this super super conservatively



    As said, if you cannot afford a basic lathe and mill - used that's $20,000
    where did your money go ?

    Start being super frugal, find out where your money is going - fast food, coffee, cigaretes, beer, gym membership, shopping, cat food...whatever.



    Hotdog cart is not a bad idea.
    Sit in the parking lot one day and track what they sell-you will be surprised.


    Start small with small equipment, hire a fun outgoing pretty teen-aged girl, track the $ in and out vs the inventory sold so she can't cheat the till but let here collect tips.

    Just sales of cold bottled water / soda pop will pay her hourly wage.

    Once you have that working well, try another.

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    "Custom fertilizer applicator"....Posts #43 & #46 show how....

    You don't own the product, nor keep it.

    Just fling it.

  14. #51
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    A farm near me does real cheap local trucking so I've gotten to know them. One of their bigger gigs is having a bunch of vacuum tankers and using them to pump out cow shit holding ponds then dumping in another farmer's field. Owner told me the EPA just wants to see an effort/paper trail the farmers are doing something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garwood View Post
    A farm near me does real cheap local trucking so I've gotten to know them. One of their bigger gigs is having a bunch of vacuum tankers and using them to pump out cow shit holding ponds then dumping in another farmer's field. Owner told me the EPA just wants to see an effort/paper trail the farmers are doing something.
    "Dumping" is not really what I see being done around here.

    They have a gigantic sprinkler, that is on a giant
    reel.
    Barnyard Supply Limited - Cadman Irrigation Supplies | Manure Management Equipment | hard hose dragline | Irrigation travellers | Sport Field Irrigating | supply line hose | Water pumps | Mini travellers | clamps | fittings | Aluminum Pipe | Hose reels | briggs boom | portable storage systems Supply, Main Line hose, Drag Hose in Stock

  16. #53
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    Well this thread sure has gone to shit...

    I am starting to see piling in the middle of fields here too. Just here on my section we had a pile that was 1/8 mile long or more. It was dumped over the winter a cpl yrs ago, and then the weather in the spring didn't co-operate, so they farmed around it, and hauled it the next fall.

    But otherwise I see big dumps out in the middle being "staged" for quicker spreading when the time comes. City sludge has been that way all along, but now more common with livestock as well.

    New laws in Ohio - doo to algae blooms in Lake Erie (and we are on the Maumee River Watershed too) have made it so that you need to fit it down within 48 hours (?) of spreading, and don't dare spread with rain in the forecast. But you can haul anytime on a standing crop, so now cover crops are gaining popularity (not just for that reason, but it is A reason).

    The state has even financed some folks' new barns built just to store shit. Generally 3' concrete sidewalls and a plastic Quonset hut type roof. (you know the type) But there are others as I understand...

    Ferti-gating is still done - but mostly on dairy farms AFAIK, and only on ground within reach, but I have seen piping laid out for a cpl of miles and under roads - through culverts from our biggest dairy around here that I know of. Not sure how big they are now, but I suspect 3500? More?


    -------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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  18. #54
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    Wow, looks like the OP gave up...

    Gweldo62 Being able to:
    By now you should:Re: [know how to go to between centers in less than 10 minuets, How to 3jaw a part and have a good thread in 10 minuets. How to put on the 4 jaw and have a part trued .0002 and ready to turn in 10 minuets, how to step bore a part perhaps 5” long and get ID to OD running within .0005 concentric, how to get a step length with in .003, how to turn a bearing shaft so the ends are with in .0002 for size and concentric..*But this just for learning because the manual lathe cant produce to make $60K a year.]

    Practice all this for perhaps 6 months..Then advertise on craigslist Basic lathe work $20 and hour. Likely you will get some jobs and learn the business. Yes a digital caliper will get you size to perhaps 6". Likely you may need to cut a key way..so need a vise for Your lathe. also a bench grinder and a floor drill press.

    RE: manual lathe cant produce to make $60K But lucking into a good job or a product you might make 60k.. for starters lucky to make $20 per. *Just watching here on PM you see items guys want or need that could be made on a manual lathe.
    Last edited by michiganbuck; 02-06-2018 at 06:03 AM.

  19. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    Well this thread sure has gone to shit...
    We picked up a job recently for some equipment for what I call the Poo plant. Human waste for a good portion of the golden horseshoe is processed in that plant. There must be some DNA programming in us to avoid filth, I have no problem mucking out a barn and have done it countless times, but I can't get past the outer office of this place without gagging. Its 'processed' with something that produces ammonia gas, baked and comes out the other end ready to spread on the petunias. People that work there shave their heads to have a fighting chance at getting rid of the odor after the day.

    On the agricultural thing, how did you end up with so much more manure than you have fields? Growing up in an agricultural area, the byproduct from the barn was spread over the field that was either pasture or grew the animals winter feed and it wasn't an issue. Are these massive feed lots with trucked in feed? I think my youth caught the last bit of how agriculture should be - family's and animals grazing in fields. There was some balance to it.
    Last edited by Mcgyver; 02-06-2018 at 11:21 AM.

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  21. #56
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    The small dairy farm is mostly a thing of the past. Most anymore are 1000 or more, and have migrant help on 6 month shifts. We have several around here doo to our aquifer. Today's milk cow will drink 100 gallons of water a day, so these big places require a good aquifer.

    I use'ta read about these big dairy's when I was a kid, but at that time they were all in California. Now they are here.

    When I was 20 I worked on a dairy farm that I thought was big. We had 100 cows "in milk", so close to 200 bovine on site total. There was one farm about 1/2 aggin bigger nearby. That was 30 yrs ago. But 25 yrs ago we had a cpl of brothers from Holland that their government bought them out and told them to leave as their water table was too high, and waste was likely the concern? So they came here around 1990 and built a cpl of large dairy's just over the Michigan line, and then over the next 10 yrs, many locals decided that _ that was an option too.

    It is such a demanding business - labor wise - that in this day and age, if you want to be in the business, it is best to git it big enough to run like a factory, rather than a family farm. So most of the ground for miles around support these farms, and thus there is more waste than you will be able to spread on the back 40. Besides, if you are chopping corn off the ground year after year, you had better be puting something back on it as that is a LOT of mass being pulled off. More than just nutrients.

    ---------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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  23. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    Not to be an ass, but you are a little old to start a machine shop on the cheap. To execute that plan you have to be willing to keep the day job while working 40+ hour weeks for yourself. You have to be willing to do crap work others have turned down, no one is handing a potential new vendor the gravy work. Since you will have limited equipment to get work, many times you will have to grind long hours making 1/4 of the rate the guy that has the right equipment charges. Been there done all that, it was a tough time and I was 35, in great health and could get by on 2-3 hours sleep a day for long stretches. I was also single and just had a dog to take care of.

    P.S. I forgot to add sometimes the profits on the jobs didn't even cover the tooling and fixtures I bought to make it. Figure with your plan, work like a dog for 3 years just to earn money to stock the shop with perishables, support equipment and more machines that will handle a wider range of work. All that money goes to the shop, your occasional treat will be calling the pizza man so you crank handles with the right hand and eat with the left.
    Not be a ass either yet a man who is at this point in life is likely a very loyal and hardworking employee all of these years for the employers he worked for. There are many very realistic posts to him to help him and I think better of people today because of that. In defense of him and myriad other Machinists who worked hard and by all the rules I will say this that unscrupulas owners will take advantage of exactly the person imho like this man asking you for your advice and none of us have a time machine.

    He likely made his employers a lot of money and more times than not such genuine trusting individuals are underpaid and the benefits of their skills go directly to the profit category all the years. Fact,disagree I take it you were a good employer and you need to run the creeps in our trade out!

    if you have known this man you want to help him survive, America does not always have a safety net for everyone we see poor and elderly every given day.

    I am proud of him because he is asking suggestions to help himself when I saw so few suggestions and several very good ones I say I expected better from owners for this man. He can likely and should not even if he can go into debt buying CNC machines at this point in his life high risk and a lot is stacked against him.

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    I don't think you are an ass. Sure you may fail to build a business but with your manual lathe you will/may have enjoyment and perhaps make a supplement income. You might even start a business.
    At the start you may be lucky to make %50 to $100 a week and that is not as good as just working at MC Donald’s, so best to start getting customers while you are still working at a job..IMHO..
    Do come back to tell us about your first paying job..even if only $20

    Going back through PM you will fine things people need that you might make ..Just thinking about this thread I have thought of a few...

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  27. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinit View Post
    Not be a ass either yet a man who is at this point in life is likely a very loyal and hardworking employee all of these years for the employers he worked for. There are many very realistic posts to him to help him and I think better of people today because of that. In defense of him and myriad other Machinists who worked hard and by all the rules I will say this that unscrupulas owners will take advantage of exactly the person imho like this man asking you for your advice and none of us have a time machine.

    He likely made his employers a lot of money and more times than not such genuine trusting individuals are underpaid and the benefits of their skills go directly to the profit category all the years. Fact,disagree I take it you were a good employer and you need to run the creeps in our trade out!

    if you have known this man you want to help him survive, America does not always have a safety net for everyone we see poor and elderly every given day.

    I am proud of him because he is asking suggestions to help himself when I saw so few suggestions and several very good ones I say I expected better from owners for this man. He can likely and should not even if he can go into debt buying CNC machines at this point in his life high risk and a lot is stacked against him.

    Please read this yourself this morning and see if it still makes sense to you.

    I read it last night, and again this morning, and _ man _ I'm having a hard time following along. I git the gist of most of it, but that last paragraph really has me ???


    ---------------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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  29. #60
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    The response to my post was surprising. Good job I am not a sensitive lad! I have learned a lot from all of you.Thanks to the blokes who contacted me directly.

    I did a 4 year apprenticeship as a fitter and turner in Zimbabwe in the early 80’s. I was at a chrome refinery so it was more fitting than turning which is not ideal. I did well at college – I even got a City and Guilds Silver Medal(Gordon can tell you all about it). I was moved into the drawing office and then moved to South Africa. My wife got a contract here in the US(she is an occupational therapist) and we arrived here with 3 suitcases. I was not allowed to work until we got green cards. Jobs were not posted in the Sunday papers here like they are overseas. I found a temp agency and got a job as a contract draughtsman for the princely sum of $7/hr with Panasonic. They hired me as a salaried engineer – silly me. Still, I got to teach the ‘machinists’ how to cut a 2-start thread – they had never heard of one. We decided to stay. I got a job with Goody Products also as an engineer. They had a recurring problem with plastic blenders wearing out the key and coupling – I drew up a new one. I had to help them fit it – no-one had ever seen a shrink-fit coupling before! I was also told that my keyway was wrong – the depth should be 50/50 between shaft and coupling. I pointed out that ASME and Machinery’s Handbook said otherwise. ASME was wrong they said. They closed the plant(China). I had a choice – 4 years for a US engineering degree(Monster etc. and company job sites cannot handle ‘City & Guilds’) or 2 years for perfusion. I have a wife and 2 children to support so time was of the essence.

    Perfusion pays pretty well but is a dead-end job which I did not know at the time. I have maintained my Incorporated Engineer registration(again ask Gordon). Perfusion is not something you would want to be doing past 65. If you make a mistake you are finished. That is why I am looking at alternative ways to generate an income. Until now I did not have the space for any tools. The general consensus seems to be to invent something and make and sell it so that is what I am doing. The bind seems to be to get equipment and hope to find work, or find work and scurry around looking for equipment and learn to use it economically.

    As for my poor financial habits I checked the median salary for a machinist - $20/hr($41k/year) After allowing for taxes, accommodation, vehicles, 10% savings, food and a cell phone, but no health insurance , clothes , cigarettes, booze, books or cable, the left over money was less than $400/month – not the kind of money you can exactly splash out on machine tools with. I also read that Snap-on is in trouble because it cannot extend loans to buyers on $20/hr any further than they do. So how a person on about $20/hr even with overtime can afford to set up a decent shop is beyond me. Perhaps I should ask the Indians where they got the green card and money to buy their hotel and gas station!
    A local college had a spiel on the TV – businesses are crying for skilled labour – they are hiring our grads for $15/hr. Walmart pays $11 to pack shelves. But the other local college which teaches aeromechanics has graduates earning $30/hr out of school. I suppose this is why more and more men are becoming nurses.

    My wife stayed at home while our children were at school – something we do not regret and now they are at college which we are having to assist with. So I will keep on looking around and learning all I can from you blokes here.


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