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  1. #461
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    Agree on sentiment, and differ a bit on some facts.

    Obama takes some of the blame, of course.

    Its immaterial weather CAT stuff is built in china, or built in USA.
    CAT owns the factories, CAT goes out of business, CAT is off the stock exchange.
    Everyones job is gone.

    The US policies have near-zero to do with the current mess.
    They are very manufacturing and US-made beneficial.
    Note GE, the near-largest manufacturer, pays zero tax.

    The problem is global - and essentially china demand.
    If steel prices collapse to 1/3, as they did, you cannot, anyhow, make a succesful busines in the steel biz at old rates.

    You blame the government.
    I note that the government is doing everything it can, and too much, imho.
    Zero-tax for GE.
    Low taxes on boeing, in record profits.
    Why ?

    Having reasonable taxes on these companies, allows for training the workforce(s).
    Education. More CAD/CAM advanced work.

    The zero taxes dont improve employment.
    They improve the profits of executives and stockholders.
    Low taxes=good.
    No taxes=bad.

    US taxes on large biz are the lowest in the OECD, more or less.

    Coal is going because its bad for everyone.
    Good, imo.
    Coal miners/machinery sellers suffer initially, yes.
    Then they go make ZEV cars, rockets, or whatever.
    Skilled workers always have jobs.
    Solution is skilled workers, not government subsidies, as you eventually run out of money.

    But the emphysemas and cancers cost the government much more than zero-tax companies pay.

    The issues are complex, and nuanced, imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by cnctoolcat View Post
    And contrary to popular belief, King Obama has to take some of the blame. Why?

    Well for one big reason, his EPA and the regulations implemented since 2009 that have broke the coal industry - which operates in 25 states - and has been the reason heavy equipment manufacturers like Caterpillar, John Deere, EMD, GE Locomotive, are fighting for survival.

    Machine tool companies are starting to feel the pinch as well, notice how the deals are getting to be amazing these days.

    And the biggie of course, American companies are afraid to risk big investments here in America,

    Sure, China slowing down has hurt American manufacturing, but not nearly as significantly as our own self-induced policies.

    Most equipment that Cat and others sell in China is BUILT in China, so blaming the current mess of American manufacturing on China is just copping out.

    Our current mess in manufacturing is our own doing, a perfect example of how tax policies, regulations, and trade policies - all by the government, can stifle growth and inhibit real investment.

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  3. #462
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    Can anyone help explain as I'm not getting why Obama gets blamed for just about everything that doesn't go as it should. I was under the impression, except under special circumstances, that Congress had to "approve" government decisions.

    The main function of Congress (with its Republican majority) seems to be to block as much as possible of what Obama wants to do.

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  5. #463
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    Can anyone help explain as I'm not getting why Obama gets blamed for just about everything ...


    The "BUCK" doesn't stop anywhere anymore.

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  7. #464
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    Spoken like a 12 year old. "You started" it. I asked a simple question after you made a general statement about landlords. I asked what your problem was with landlords.
    My guess is that your problem with landlords is the same as a couple of past tenants that quit paying rent and I evicted them.

    As far as me not making payroll, do you think "making payroll" makes you some sort of god? I have a contractor that works for me somewhat regularly and although I don't employ him full time, I do help make it possible for him to pay his bills just like you do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldwrench View Post
    We haven't reached a detente, we've reached an impasse. And, Big B, you started the ad hominem exchange because you addressed me by name first, whereas I merely referred to landlords in general. But, hey, if you want to try on the shoe and announce loudly that it fits, you are most welcome.

    But you still haven't met a payroll.

  8. #465
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpotter View Post
    I took someones advice on here and went to a local credit union. I brought the deed to my building and my tax statements as well as some other financial stuff and they gave me a 100,000 dollar line of credit. They sent a guy out to check out the building and valued it at 300 and we were done. I have no plans to use it on anything but figured it couldnt hurt to have some money available. What a difference it was working with a credit union and the guy who actually says yes or no to the loan.
    Now you have the means to get into the 21st century and get yourself a cnc.

    From what I remember of your previous threads, regarding buying a cnc, the numbers appeared to justify "the leap".

    The last vmc I bought (used) was on my line of credit. The reason I did so was I had a lease on another machine (about half way thru the term). I was a little nervous about having 2 payments, but I had the work and was making the money to pay on both.

    The reason I bought the vmc on my loc was to leave me an "out" if we had a slow down or cash flow problem. With the machine on the loc I could just blow it out the back door if I had too and recoup some money to pay off the loc.

    Sure I could have lost a few bucks if I was forced to sell it (probably not though, got a great deal on the machine). I ended up paying it off rather quickly though, so in the end everything went fine.

    When you lease or get a loan for a machine it's a lot harder to "get out from under it" if things sour, so imo using a loc is the way to go.

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  10. #466
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big B View Post
    Spoken like a 12 year old. "You started" it. I asked a simple question after you made a general statement about landlords. I asked what your problem was with landlords.
    My guess is that your problem with landlords is the same as a couple of past tenants that quit paying rent and I evicted them.

    As far as me not making payroll, do you think "making payroll" makes you some sort of god? I have a contractor that works for me somewhat regularly and although I don't employ him full time, I do help make it possible for him to pay his bills just like you do.
    So why is your worthless slumlord ass trolling the shop owners forum?

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  12. #467
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heavey Metal View Post
    So why is your worthless slumlord ass trolling the shop owners forum?
    Because there aint been much action in the Mfg in America and Europe forum lately.

  13. #468
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    In my 15 yrs of running my shop, I have never had any trouble getting a loan. I started with my little small town bank and slowly transferred over to my local credit union. The last bunch of years I have paid cash for any large-ish purchases. But the last cnc lathe, I financed. With interest being so low, I'd rather keep my money in my account. Called my loan guy, told him I what I was buying, funds were in my account as soon as I need them. Paperwork was taken care of later. No credit app. No balance sheets. Just a good working relationship with my lender.

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    How about because I also own a shop? You must have come here late as I mentioned it in a post recently. Also, we don't have any slum areas on the lakes where my rentals are located.

    It appears your reason for being on a shop owners forum is to troll. Thanks for the humor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heavey Metal View Post
    So why is your worthless slumlord ass trolling the shop owners forum?

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  17. #470
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    The economy was beginning to tank when W took office, it had something to do with ol pants around his ankles Bill and "everybody should be able to buy a house" the American dream. Problem was a lot of those people that were now able to buy houses couldn't afford them or couldn't afford what they were buying. The Repubs were able to prop it up but things just finally collapsed. As far as I am concerned the big O has done nothing to help. Just my opinion,you guys can agree or not.
    Bill

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  19. #471
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    Can anyone help explain as I'm not getting why Obama gets blamed for just about everything that doesn't go as it should. I was under the impression, except under special circumstances, that Congress had to "approve" government decisions.

    The main function of Congress (with its Republican majority) seems to be to block as much as possible of what Obama wants to do.
    The new mode of the opposition is to break things then blame the CEO.
    Republicans have an irrational hatred of president Obama...hate is an important part of keeping the Authoritarian Followers in control.

    If you want to hear the rhetoric...
    TheBlaze - Breaking news and opinion

    Mark Levine is a particularly lurid example, makes Rush look soft spoken.

  20. #472
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    Can anyone help explain as I'm not getting why Obama gets blamed for just about everything that doesn't go as it should. I was under the impression, except under special circumstances, that Congress had to "approve" government decisions.
    Since Obama and the Republican Congress won't work together, the President is administering his policies using executive orders, which do not require Congressional approval, and essentially become laws of the land.

    Obama also uses his executive branch departments to implement policies and regulations, again not requiring Congressional approval.

    The main function of Congress (with its Republican majority) seems to be to block as much as possible of what Obama wants to do.
    The Republicans say Obama won't work with them, and Obama says the Republicans won't work with him. Regardless of who began the impasse, neither side seems to be willing to give an inch - which is supposed to be a fundamental tenant of democracy: willingness to compromise.

    I think a major reason the Repubs and Obama can't work together is both are wanting to implement their own policies, which tend to be too far left or too far right.

    America has historically been a centrist country, with both sides close enough in philosophy to reach agreement. But now, the left is far left, and the right is far right.

    For Obama's biggest achievement - ObamaCare, he and the Democrats ran the bill through with virtually zero Republican input. Since then the Republicans, and rightly so, have been bitter and thus choose not to work with the President.

    But again, remember a lot of what Obama and the Democrats want to do is somewhat extreme-left ideas, and of course a conservative Republican Congress will object to those kinds of bills.

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  22. #473
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    Quote Originally Posted by cnctoolcat View Post
    America has historically been a centrist country, with both sides close enough in philosophy to reach agreement. But now, the left is far left, and the right is far right.

    For Obama's biggest achievement - ObamaCare, he and the Democrats ran the bill through with virtually zero Republican input. Since then the Republicans, and rightly so, have been bitter and thus choose not to work with the President.

    But again, remember a lot of what Obama and the Democrats want to do is somewhat extreme-left ideas, and of course a conservative Republican Congress will object to those kinds of bills.
    Point of history, the GWB tax cuts that are costing us trillions in debt were pushed through using exactly the same tactics.
    Cheney said it best..."Reagan proved deficits don't matter"

    Obama care is hardly a leftist policy, it was crafted by the Heritage Foundation back in the 90s as a notional alternative to healthcare finance reform, which would have put us in line with the rest of the industrialized world.

    The left is not moving left, and Reagan, Eisenhower, and even Goldwater would get bood off the stage at a Republican gathering these days.

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  24. #474
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    Quote Originally Posted by Achilles Bill View Post
    The economy was beginning to tank when W took office, it had something to do with ol pants around his ankles Bill and "everybody should be able to buy a house" the American dream. Problem was a lot of those people that were now able to buy houses couldn't afford them or couldn't afford what they were buying. The Repubs were able to prop it up but things just finally collapsed. As far as I am concerned the big O has done nothing to help. Just my opinion,you guys can agree or not.
    Bill



    Didn't Bush try to rein it all in too, and he was ignored? I don't recall the specifics, and it may have been a bullshit article, but didn't he give a speech about reining in Fanny mae and Freddie mac? Or something of that nature?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave K View Post
    Didn't Bush try to rein it all in too, and he was ignored? I don't recall the specifics, and it may have been a bullshit article, but didn't he give a speech about reining in Fanny mae and Freddie mac? Or something of that nature?
    In context...not so much.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/bu...anted=all&_r=0

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post



    So then, what was all this about?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big B View Post
    How about because I also own a shop? You must have come here late as I mentioned it in a post recently. Also, we don't have any slum areas on the lakes where my rentals are located.

    It appears your reason for being on a shop owners forum is to troll. Thanks for the humor.
    Actually I had you down for 5 rush Limbaugh's in this thread (betting pool).

    And your worthless ass has only produced 1. What is the deal here? Don't you understand that yer costing me money?

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  29. #479
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    I heard today that John Deere has announced another round of layoffs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave K View Post
    So then, what was all this about?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM
    Read the article for context.

    Also, watch this...
    Video: The Warning | Watch FRONTLINE Online | PBS Video


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