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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    I guess that this part is to be noted fully.

    The thought of them spinning off the shop is just an early move of yet to come.

    You would need to be targeting other work soon or you would possibly be left out in the cold soon enough.


    Most here prolly started while working elsewhere.


    ----------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    This would be a priority for sure...drumming up work will be a whole other challenge.

    I'm currently waiting for a call back from the local small business center to help me go over financials to see if things make sense. I'm not exactly sure what that will entail, but its a start. Will also be taking a business plan writing class tomorrow evening. Went to the library and checked out a small business guide....

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    Woke up this morning thinking maybe I should just go for the manual equipment, put it in my garage and do their one off work to get started while I work full time... Almost 3 weeks into unemployment and I'm starting to wake up with anxiety. Makes you want to give up, bu maybe this is the difference maker. The successful ones push through the anxiety and keep taking a step forward.

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    Sorry, was looking at the wrong date in upper right corner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rokstarr999 View Post
    Woke up this morning thinking maybe I should just go for the manual equipment, put it in my garage and do their one off work to get started while I work full time... Almost 3 weeks into unemployment and I'm starting to wake up with anxiety. Makes you want to give up, bu maybe this is the difference maker. The successful ones push through the anxiety and keep taking a step forward.
    Don't stay unemployed. Work fast food for a couple weeks if you have to, but do something every day that is generating income. Another thing to help with mindset- start listening to guys like Zig Ziglar, Seth Godin, and Dave Ramsey. You can buy audiobooks, or there's a ton of free podcasts out there.

    One other idea- list out businesses in your area that might be customers. Go to each one, tell them you're opening a machine shop with XYZ capabilities, and do they have any needs? It's a learning exercise, you may find work, maybe not, but you'll absolutely learn whether YOU are able to cold call, and get a better idea of the local potential. I did this starting out, learned that there wasn't anything in this neck of the woods that would feed a family, and that I stink at door to door sales, so we pivoted and started making a product line.

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    No one's mentioned the hot dog cart yet? Wasn't that SOP?

    Before the OP gets all in, How many here who've become successful in the game are now less machinist and mostly business man?

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    No clue what happened to Gary.



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    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Haven't seen a post from Gary since NYC figured out how much those carts were earning and jacked the licensing fees through the roof of the Empire State Building.

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    Just want to say thanks to everyone that has taken the time to reply to my post. I really appreciate it. So I took the 3 hour crash course on writing a business plan last night. Its a very rushed course and just leaves you with a lot of questions.

    I ended up getting a panel interview for tomorrow at 1:30. Kinda sounds like a big deal. Never had such a formal interview before. And I still need to meet with my old employer to find out what he wants for the CNC’s. (Will try to do that today or tomorrow.). So reckoning time is near.

    What I got out of the business plan class last night is that no bank is going to loan you money with out at least 18 months of profitability and if I’m not willing to put my house up for a loan then why would the bank feel good about giving me one.

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    I guess I don't understand why there is even any talk about the old shop's machines if no-one has put up a value yet?

    I didn't think that the machines in this thread were anything special by any means?

    Did you git the other job?

    I don't understand the whole "business plan" thing, but .....


    I can agree 100% with your last sentence.
    Especially the last part!
    When it's your $ on the line, somehow it becomes a bit more real, and a lot more incentivising to not pay too much, and to git by with less out of the gate until you see the whites of their eyes.


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    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    I guess I don't understand why there is even any talk about the old shop's machines if no-one has put up a value yet?

    I didn't think that the machines in this thread were anything special by any means?

    Did you git the other job?

    I don't understand the whole "business plan" thing,
    but .....


    I can agree 100% with your last sentence.
    Especially the last part!
    When it's your $ on the line, somehow it becomes a bit more real, and a lot more incentivising to not pay too much, and to git by with less out of the gate until you see the whites of their eyes.

    This is not directed at Ox

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    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    I think you are thinking too hard about this. It is clearly your first time getting into business and I can see your concerns.

    Get a DBA from the town you will be operating in. After that go to the IRS website and get a tax id number. Then you can go to the bank and get a business bank account. Now you are in business. Go out and get work and make parts. Its that simple.

    When you grow and get bigger and see incorporating as the next step you can do that at any time. Go for an LLC. in some states its cheap, others its not. For example it was like $1200-$1500 to do it in MA. In NH it is $150.

    Dont take on debt to start a business. Only take on debt if it is "needed" to grow the business.

    "Need" and "Want" are two totally different things.

    This is not directed at Ox

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    I have done this exact thing nearly 20yrs ago. Even if I had succeeded I would advise against it. There are just too many easier ways.

    This business idea has way too many moving parts. Too many people and too many spinning plates to balance. And just too many opportunities to fail. Not to mention it sounds like a windfall for the ex-employer.

    Wouldn't advise taking it on unless you and you alone were the principal and only owner. And perhaps independently wealthy. ...and hate money.

    The fellow employees have the employee mindset. There was something about you that made the company consider this but you are at their total mercy in this scenario. And unfortunately the news only gets worse from there.
    So I'll spare you the details.

    The good news is you do have a few paths. So, if you are now being haunted by the entrepreneurial spirit and would like to capitalize on the opportunity of doing work for your ex-company, then the best advice I can offer you is to quickly hit the streets looking for a replacement job.
    Only then and if you have any money available to you, the first path I see would be to buy a used but working Haas and stuff it in your garage at home. Get it up and running as fast as humanly possible. You don't need to worry about all of the work you might miss out on along the way. Just get what you can. If you can.
    Even if they find other vendors in your absence, they know your capabilities and have had time to appreciate you in your absence. The pink skinned, snot-nosed MBA types that make such corporate decisions usually learn hard lessons themselves in the form of kharma due to the abrupt absence of tribal knowledge.

    ...anyway
    Competing with other shops isn't so hard. Specially if you have a pre-existing relationship with the potential customer. And zero overhead makes for a serious competitor.
    Whatever you do, don't quit your job until you do some real numbers math that reaches the conclusion that your job is consistently costing you money every day. In the meantime invest that extra income back into your capabilities.

    P.S. I wouldn't even share your plans with the company or any co-workers. Only makes for a costly distraction.

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    Can I like that 2wice?



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    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tryhard View Post
    I have done this exact thing nearly 20yrs ago. Even if I had succeeded I would advise against it. There are just too many easier ways.

    This business idea has way too many moving parts. Too many people and too many spinning plates to balance. And just too many opportunities to fail. Not to mention it sounds like a windfall for the ex-employer.

    Wouldn't advise taking it on unless you and you alone were the principal and only owner. And perhaps independently wealthy. ...and hate money.

    The fellow employees have the employee mindset. There was something about you that made the company consider this but you are at their total mercy in this scenario. And unfortunately the news only gets worse from there.
    So I'll spare you the details.

    The good news is you do have a few paths. So, if you are now being haunted by the entrepreneurial spirit and would like to capitalize on the opportunity of doing work for your ex-company, then the best advice I can offer you is to quickly hit the streets looking for a replacement job.
    Only then and if you have any money available to you, the first path I see would be to buy a used but working Haas and stuff it in your garage at home. Get it up and running as fast as humanly possible. You don't need to worry about all of the work you might miss out on along the way. Just get what you can. If you can.
    Even if they find other vendors in your absence, they know your capabilities and have had time to appreciate you in your absence. The pink skinned, snot-nosed MBA types that make such corporate decisions usually learn hard lessons themselves in the form of kharma due to the abrupt absence of tribal knowledge.

    ...anyway
    Competing with other shops isn't so hard. Specially if you have a pre-existing relationship with the potential customer. And zero overhead makes for a serious competitor.
    Whatever you do, don't quit your job until you do some real numbers math that reaches the conclusion that your job is consistently costing you money every day. In the meantime invest that extra income back into your capabilities.

    P.S. I wouldn't even share your plans with the company or any co-workers. Only makes for a costly distraction.
    I had thought about putting a manual lathe and mill in my garage and starting there. I'm not sure what size Haas I would be able to put in the garage, but even a small Haas would not be enough equipment to do work for my ex-employer. I could do some stuff though.

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    With some dimantling of the Z axis and whatnot - most commodity mills will likely sneak into most garages.
    However - you need to place the motor between joists, and if a finished cieling - some folks actually build a little recessed box to slip it up in.

    Lots of things are possible when you seriously want to make it happen.

    I would not recommend ever starting with a dink-assed machine.
    30" x at a min.
    Preferably 40.

    You can make small parts on a big machine, but going the other way doesn't work so well.

    You can git a 600 for your second machine if it makes sense.
    I doubt the price will be much different.
    Having your $ wrapped up into something too small makes it hard to get a second machine earlier.


    ----------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Had a meet with my ex and he seems to think I could get this off the ground with 5-10K. I finally got some numbers from him regarding the equipment.

    CNC Mill 11k
    CNC Lathe 11k
    Bridgeport 2.5k
    Man Lathe 3k
    Transport to new local 4k
    Total 31,500k deferred for the first 3-4 months

    Initial costs

    Building $1600 /mo
    Deposit $
    PG & E $ 300 /mo
    Selway $ 2500
    Potential repairs $20,000
    Misc $
    Air Compressor $
    Surface Plate $

    I'm told the equipment could be moved as soon as I have walls and work would start right away. I think 5-10k is a stretch and it looks like most building owners want at least a 3yr lease. So with limited funds thats a 40k lean on the house as thats all I have for collateral at the moment. Hoping I would be able to talk them down to a 1 year.

    And the interview I had went really well. Its a job, but thats just it...it's just another place to spend 10years at which point I'll be 56 and still working for someone else.

    And yes...I think I was making it complicated. My understanding now is that I just need the building and a permit to operate and I'm in business. I can operate off my social at first and get the fictitious business name and tax ID set up at a later time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    With some dimantling of the Z axis and whatnot - most commodity mills will likely sneak into most garages.
    However - you need to place the motor between joists, and if a finished cieling - some folks actually build a little recessed box to slip it up in.

    Lots of things are possible when you seriously want to make it happen.

    I would not recommend ever starting with a dink-assed machine.
    30" x at a min.
    Preferably 40.

    You can make small parts on a big machine, but going the other way doesn't work so well.

    You can git a 600 for your second machine if it makes sense.
    I doubt the price will be much different.
    Having your $ wrapped up into something too small makes it hard to get a second machine earlier.


    ----------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    Then you'll need a 3 phase converter correct?

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    Well sure, but ...


    Permit to opperate?
    From who?

    Prolly a Left Coast thing....



    ---------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    Well sure, but ...


    Permit to opperate?
    From who?

    Prolly a Left Coast thing....



    ---------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    From the county or town that I'm operating in. It was the first thing my ex said I would need...maybe he's referring to the business license.

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    Well, I'm not in town, or even on the radar (and barely on the grid) so ....
    Let alone - I started >30 yrs ago, so .... things have likely changed a bit since then?


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    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Another cost you left out of your considerations is the interest/principle payments due on the loan. How much money do you have in the bank that you can invest in the business without endangering your home finances? If you are planning on putting everything on the line (in this case your house) I'd say that's a non-starter. Getting a loan for the entire amount of your business costs tends to catch up with you in the long run as those banks kind of want to see a big check from you on a monthly basis. The smaller the check (better if there is none) you have to write, the better.

    You are going to need a lot more cash on hand than you have figured on, tooling, utilities, insurance, "emergencies", etc. There are all kinds of little, and not so little, things that will pop up and hit you in the face.

    I'm all for being self employed and owning your own business as I've been doing it for a long time but there is a good reason that over %50 of the startups are gone within a few years and that is usually because they don't have the resources (deep pockets) to get through the rough spots.

    JMHO

    -Ron

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