Startup & New Business Growth Questions - Page 2
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 64
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Country
    DENMARK
    Posts
    184
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    11
    Likes (Received)
    125

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DieselMater86 View Post
    Now i like this point and see exactly what you mean too. Now I'm the only machinist and being able to run the machines will be me. He was my money man lol sounds weird to say. Anyways I will bring this up and have a sit down with him about these types of situations that will arise in the machine maintenance part.
    This alarms me.

    I started a shop 6 months ago and alot of people wanted in. But having people own my business from day one when I am the one who's going to put in the work. No way.

    Thank God I declined them and digg up the money for it myself.

    Think about it. If you are the one putting in 80 hours a week (and you will if you want to start a business) you don't need people already owning part of your business unless they bring alot to the table.

    Sendt fra min EML-L29 med Tapatalk

  2. Likes yoke, wheelieking71, Garwood, Oldwrench, mc3608 liked this post
  3. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Tennessee
    Posts
    151
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    100
    Likes (Received)
    24

    Default

    There are plenty people with plasma in their garages. Most of those that have them don't do anything special. Hey I'm gonna make some signs like every Joe. I will make a sign if that is what you want me to do. I have connection into a few different markets to help guys save cost but not lose in the product performance, and the quality of product they normally buy. I would go more in depth with that but if I do then I would give away my business plan.

    Now on big customers we would wave the material fee unless it was a ton of material that was needed to make product.

  4. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Country
    SPAIN
    Posts
    3,338
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1828
    Likes (Received)
    1203

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nikolaiownz View Post
    This alarms me.

    I started a shop 6 months ago and alot of people wanted in. But having people own my business from day one when I am the one who's going to put in the work. No way.

    Thank God I declined them and digg up the money for it myself.

    Think about it. If you are the one putting in 80 hours a week (and you will if you want to start a business) you don't need people already owning part of your business unless they bring alot to the table.

    Sendt fra min EML-L29 med Tapatalk
    And in 5 years time when you've worked yourself into the ground and built up 5 machines all bought and paid for and turning over $500k per year, money man says he wants out.
    And how much are you going to pay him because *your* business is now worth a whole lot more but 50-50 is 50-50...

  5. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    494
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    236
    Likes (Received)
    381

    Default

    You got some good information here. I will add another in mark in the "I don't like partners" box but it will come down to how you are wired I suppose.

    I don't necessarily see how you guys will swing him being all the money and you being all the ability. That is two chiefs and zero indians from where I'm sitting. Would you be able to figure out a way to have him take the first $X amount of the business while you don't take any for a 50/50 split in equity at least?

    I would, from day one, try to find a niche. When the next slow down happens every Tom, Dick, and Harry who used their bonus money from the last few good years to buy a mill or lathe will be working for peanuts to try an find an edge. Don't allow yourself to blend in with them.

  6. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Gilbert, AZ
    Posts
    5,813
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7292
    Likes (Received)
    7409

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    Is there really enough profit in plasma to fund a CNC mill purchase?
    Depends on how much traffic the art isle at your local flea market gets.

  7. Likes Oldwrench liked this post
  8. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    1,164
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    381
    Likes (Received)
    393

    Default

    I have a cnc plasma and do alright. But I make my own low volume products and prototype with it, in addition to the normal fab shop stuff. I actually love having it.


    But I currently have about 12000 laser cut parts in boxes on my floor for a production job (big job for my 3-4 man shop). All 11ga stainless. Laser is cheaper and better on any volume.

    Good luck with it.

  9. Likes Garwood liked this post
  10. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Minnesota
    Posts
    234
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    73
    Likes (Received)
    105

    Default

    So you are the guy that does all the work but has no money?? If you know markets, actual expenses, and know your product you need a business plan and sit down with a credit union. You start in a pole shed on your own property with less overhead(rent etc).

    The only hope you have is that he perhaps worked his way up from the bottom as well to where he is today, but I have seen business owner get ripped off hard by guys they literally knew since middle school and attend the same church.

    Do it yourself. Give yourself the confidence, people will tell you can't do it or you can compete with china. IF you have done ALL THE MATH to know your TRUE expenses and time and you can make a profit( as a side gig) start there.

    Best of luck.

  11. Likes macds, Oldwrench, wheelieking71, Fancuku liked this post
  12. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Tennessee
    Posts
    455
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    139
    Likes (Received)
    120

    Default

    If mr money is sales and all bizzness parts (paper work, invoice in/out, ordering, inventory) then there is no reason partnership wont work. strengths, play the strengths.

    We have a plasma/torch here, and for it to make money on not our work (sub to steel processors and other shops) it has to run a lot of steel in a day for a processing job to turn a profit (1000's of parts or many tons per day). Unless you are in Nashville the shop rate in tn is 45-60 an hour for steel work, you can make your money up in the office doing drawing scrubs and fairing curves and quickly checking copyright issues with retail request- but not machine on time. You also need to get workmans comp and liability ins if you like your property. tn limits liability (wrong on multiple levels) but makes the insurance dirt cheap.
    to save on consumables set a nitrogen purge cycle and have sub zero air dryer- they payback real quick. with our tube plasma running a cute powermax 45 we went from 200 pierces to 400 on nozzle / electrode sets tying into our big plasma air and nitrogen purges.
    spend the money on premium abrasives, they are worth it. keep an eye out at walgreens/cvs for when they have n95 mask on sale, cheaper than industrial houses by far. wear the mask while running the table unless you have water/downdraft.

  13. Likes DieselMater86 liked this post
  14. #29
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Tennessee
    Posts
    151
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    100
    Likes (Received)
    24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by memphisjed View Post
    If mr money is sales and all bizzness parts (paper work, invoice in/out, ordering, inventory) then there is no reason partnership wont work. strengths, play the strengths.

    We have a plasma/torch here, and for it to make money on not our work (sub to steel processors and other shops) it has to run a lot of steel in a day for a processing job to turn a profit (1000's of parts or many tons per day). Unless you are in Nashville the shop rate in tn is 45-60 an hour for steel work, you can make your money up in the office doing drawing scrubs and fairing curves and quickly checking copyright issues with retail request- but not machine on time. You also need to get workmans comp and liability ins if you like your property. tn limits liability (wrong on multiple levels) but makes the insurance dirt cheap.
    to save on consumables set a nitrogen purge cycle and have sub zero air dryer- they payback real quick. with our tube plasma running a cute powermax 45 we went from 200 pierces to 400 on nozzle / electrode sets tying into our big plasma air and nitrogen purges.
    spend the money on premium abrasives, they are worth it. keep an eye out at walgreens/cvs for when they have n95 mask on sale, cheaper than industrial houses by far. wear the mask while running the table unless you have water/downdraft.
    This is exactly how I felt about the partnership. We are playing to our strengths mine in Machining, and his in Marketing/Sales. Right now I'm doing some small stuff for people at our day job and they are loving it. Basically using them to add into our Capitol stocking materials and consumables. We are building our web page, inventory, designs, just got a great deal on MIG, TIG, and Sand Blaster. We have been optimizing our money from the get go, and that the whole plan to make the Company grow itself. Right now looking at a CNC Mill thats under 5k its not a Haas or Mazak but its a workhorse that will open up to some other venues for us. I know its not a lights out machine just yet but it will get us to that Goal.

    Plus I know that I can't do everything on the plasma. I have a guy that just signed a contract with us to run production on 2 different parts for 750 of each 3 times a year. I took the print and outsourced it to a Company i know with a Laser gave me a deal. I marked it up a little and I'm making a pretty good penny off that and I'm the middle man.

    Yes I have alot more work and long hard road ahead its not all rainbows and sunshine, but that is life. If I wasn't a idiot in my 20's and got into huge debt that I finally got out of. I took a different approach got a guy that has the same drive as me. On the days I feel like its all crap he pushes me and on the day for him I push him. Yeah he doesn't know how to program but as he told me. have programs ready I know how to load material and hit the button to go and stop if something isn't right. While i'm running the machine he is bending, drilling, or sanding something. Then the whole time we are discussing our next step to achieve what our next goal is.

    I know that there are more bad than good stories about a partner in business but there are success stories too. If you don't have a dream to chase (and a Family) then why live to be honest. Yes he is going to use me for my machining knowledge to grow his bank account, and I'm going to use him in Sales, marketing, and decision making to grow my bank account. Business is a cut throat lifestyle I have seen it growing up with my family. I wasn't going to go to my dad who is retired and worked his butt off to get there for money to start my dream. Even though he has gave me money and knowledge to do what I'm doing. But also my dad sit down with us and laid it out how to go about this, and make it successful. Yes ups and downs will come but if we keep on the same path and be smart with money and growth. We can take this as far as we want to.

    I'm a positive thinker with a shot of the real world added to that. So i tread lightly but when its time to make a splash I make a splash bigger than others. I got some great feedback from some and we sit down last night and talked about these things and now its all on common ground and 100% transparent.

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Mishawaka, IN
    Posts
    339
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    39
    Likes (Received)
    78

    Default

    Other guys have already addressed the biggest concerns.... I'm glad to see on the last post you are looking to pursue/integrate your stated strength in programming/machining. Seems to me a great place to start is doing what your best at and what may have the best margin. I'm thinking better margin on the programming and machining--?

  16. #31
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Abingdon, VA
    Posts
    3,345
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4451
    Likes (Received)
    3090

    Default

    It seems you are the partner with the machining capabilities, and he's the partner with the money and sales capabilities. On paper it sounds good, but...

    Just why is it exactly that you "don't have the money"? Have you not been gainfully employed the last several years? I realize you said you have children, but a budding entrepreneur has to be able to scrounge and save up money for the venture somehow.

    Or, do you not have the money because you're not very good at managing money? Because if you're not, then there's a red flag right off the bat. Money management in a small business is critical, and that's a biggie that will cause partnerships to melt down.

    A startup shop has to be able to manage the pennies with an iron fist, and most people aren't very good at this.

    Haas will set a vmc and turning center package on your floor for 2 payments down, if you have decent personal credit. All you need is enough cash the float the place for the first few months. If you can't get paying work in the door by then, throw up your hands and tell Haas to come get the equipment. By doing this, you're out nothing except a few dollars and your credit rating.

    And since this is a very viable path to getting a shop going, just what do you need the partner for?

    If he's that good at sales and marketing, just offer him 5 or 10% commission on anything he brings in.

    If you go in as partners, eventually the partnership will collapse. Eventually the business will either boom or bust, but either way it will get ugly with a partner.

  17. #32
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Tennessee
    Posts
    151
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    100
    Likes (Received)
    24

    Default

    As stated I'm finishing up paying for what I learned the hard way in my 20's and don't have 20% down because of that. Plus you don't come into machining making top dollar right off the bat. Took me showing that I could lead a shop and eventually had to move to another shop to get 30 hour which isn't easy to obtain at most places around this area. I took on the Partner to get the jump started I needed plus what he brought to the table as a added man helping in the shop, sales, marketing, and sharing the other ins and outs of the shop.

  18. #33
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    1,076
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    896

    Default

    Always remember the Golden Rule. The guy with the gold rules. I had a money guy, ex customer, ex employer too, convince me to start another company with him. Two years in, five products, broke even already, meaning we didn’t lose money and I got a paycheck but we have zero cash. We need just $100,000 to really take off and he blows $1,000,000 buying two houses for his divorced inlaws who are fighting. I don’t have a paycheck and we close up.

  19. #34
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Tennessee
    Posts
    151
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    100
    Likes (Received)
    24

    Default

    I defiantly appreciate all the feedback I have received from everyone. I know partners can be a huge downfall in a startup business for sure, but I didn't see the light on my own. I have been saving but life happens with 3 kids a wife , house , and shop that's life I know. I have been doing Contract Programming for over a year but nothing steady a lot of it was overseas and still no steady work. It was like when I was in school for networking I went that route because a computer programmer could be any where in the world cut your rates. Yet Networking was a hands on I need you in there doing it in person.
    So it was hard to compete with people that only wanted to make a few bucks just to pad up there portfolio. Maybe I went the wrong way and should have waited longer I'm still young in this trade at 33. Hopefully I won't regret it or in a few short years of hard work I can buy him out or turn him into a investor instead of 50/50 Partner. Well thank you all for giving me more insight into this, and I will keep a sharp eye out for any troubles that may arise.

    memphisjed I'm located about 30 minutes south of Nashville, and shop rates are what your saying spot on. I have sourced out some more equipment for great prices. I picked up a Sand blasting setup, Mig welder, stick welder, 15 ton hydro press, and a dual stack oven. I'm broaden what I offer as mush as possible. Spent hours designing new products, new Company logo, and laying the shop out for optimal flow. We worked on flyers, the web page, and vendor spots at some local big events to really push our name. Reached out to some local businesses about products, and what we can offer them. Plus I made another contact with a Laser so I can get some good turnaround if needed for more precision parts.

  20. #35
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Michigan
    Posts
    9,960
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3358
    Likes (Received)
    3569

    Default

    Be knowing that if the space is not commercial you may have to move the shop at the first neighbor complaint.

    I know two guys with plasma cutters. One with Art Craft and one with a commercial product, both doing Ok to good.

    I’m not going to beat up your plan. Good luck.

  21. Likes DieselMater86 liked this post
  22. #36
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Beaverdam, Virginia
    Posts
    7,342
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    639
    Likes (Received)
    3456

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DieselMater86 View Post
    memphisjed I'm located about 30 minutes south of Nashville,
    If you go with Fanuc controlled CNCs you have a great board testing and repair house right in your back yard in LaVergne. I have actually driven there and exchanged items. T.I.E. is over 600 miles away, but if you need it now, you need it now.

  23. #37
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Wyoming
    Posts
    3,225
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7808
    Likes (Received)
    5189

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    female sink her teeth into him and turn him into a lap dog. She moved in and made him her personal slave
    Not always avoidable. You just have to learn to accept certain brutal realities.

    tonys-ink.jpg

  24. Likes Mike1974 liked this post
  25. #38
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Ohio
    Posts
    831
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    190
    Likes (Received)
    364

    Default

    The number one piece of advice I have learned from PM is to have a business divorce decree in place at time of business start. Its not about what is divided when the relationship started, but how all assets earned over time are divided up. You want to see a shit show? Search Bobw's partner divorce thread if you can find it. I would take any advice that man shares even if he told me to jump off a cliff. I'd never want to go through that.

    50/50 sounds reasonable until you realize you are putting in 80% of the effort to your partner's 20% and this will run you straight into the ground and force you to start over. OTOH, there are many people on here that say partners are good.

    Also, this will sting, but a reality I coach to myself therefore I'm comfortable saying it... your bad decisions in your 20's are still rooted in your behavioral traits later in life regardless of what anyone thinks. Those traits may be masked as something else leading you to your next bad decision that your hope is masking as a good decision. Point is, if you have done well lately on your own, don't change it. Needing money to grow a business is not a good reason to add a partner as there are many ways to raise capital without changing the denominator when profit is divided.. PM will help you with that and the first thing to getting that freedom is to open an LLC and get a business bank account at US Bank.

  26. Likes DieselMater86, Garwood liked this post
  27. #39
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Tennessee
    Posts
    151
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    100
    Likes (Received)
    24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    Be knowing that if the space is not commercial you may have to move the shop at the first neighbor complaint.

    I know two guys with plasma cutters. One with Art Craft and one with a commercial product, both doing Ok to good.

    I’m not going to beat up your plan. Good luck.
    Thanks for not beating me up and luckily my neighbors are a good distance away from me and we all leave each other alone. Most are retired or part timers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    If you go with Fanuc controlled CNCs you have a great board testing and repair house right in your back yard in LaVergne. I have actually driven there and exchanged items. T.I.E. is over 600 miles away, but if you need it now, you need it now.
    Thanks for the info

    Quote Originally Posted by countryboy1966 View Post
    The number one piece of advice I have learned from PM is to have a business divorce decree in place at time of business start. Its not about what is divided when the relationship started, but how all assets earned over time are divided up. You want to see a shit show? Search Bobw's partner divorce thread if you can find it. I would take any advice that man shares even if he told me to jump off a cliff. I'd never want to go through that.

    50/50 sounds reasonable until you realize you are putting in 80% of the effort to your partner's 20% and this will run you straight into the ground and force you to start over. OTOH, there are many people on here that say partners are good.

    Also, this will sting, but a reality I coach to myself therefore I'm comfortable saying it... your bad decisions in your 20's are still rooted in your behavioral traits later in life regardless of what anyone thinks. Those traits may be masked as something else leading you to your next bad decision that your hope is masking as a good decision. Point is, if you have done well lately on your own, don't change it. Needing money to grow a business is not a good reason to add a partner as there are many ways to raise capital without changing the denominator when profit is divided.. PM will help you with that and the first thing to getting that freedom is to open an LLC and get a business bank account at US Bank.
    I will look more into this and sit down with him and talk about it as it is a concern of mine. I want to cover my rear end as much as possible of course. All things are almost final and fixing to do the LLC and open the bank account very soon. We just decided on the Company logo which I might try some other ideas with to see how it looks. I will check out that thread your talking about also.

  28. #40
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Minnesota
    Posts
    234
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    73
    Likes (Received)
    105

    Default

    I did a design contest to pick a logo, created an llc, did what I had to do to get a trademark starting 5-7 yrs ago. Pay montly for a domain I don't really use yet. Why? Baby steps and I don't owe anyone anything. Am I in debt, yup, but controlled managed debt that I can easily pay. I took on more based on cash flow predicted to come in.

    Countryboy said it best. I am only 34, I got in the game later based not entirely on my mistakes but the school system as a whole(brainwashed that I needed to go to a 4yr school) and then attend another school that was a for profit crap one.

    At any rate, it looks like you have perceived market which is good. And the guy you want as a partner does have experience. But if he is confident that he is a true sales guy and knows the product, he can keep his day job and work for commission. IF he is unwilling to do that would be a red flag.

    I hope you report back every 6months or so in a thread of some sort. It is okay to be humble and collect advice and opinions as you go forward.

  29. Likes DieselMater86 liked this post

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •