Theft of auctioned equipment prior to buyer pickup

Cannonmn · Jul 24, 2018

Interesting case: Tool removed post-auction, pre-removal. Bought a CNC mill at online auction, paid next day, had rigger pick it up a week later. In auction catalog, mill was pictured with two items on the table, the manual and a nice big milling vise. Rigger showed up to unload and mentions that someone from the still-active business selling the mill appeared while he was prepping mill and took the vise without answering rigger’s question as to what he was doing and why. Vise was not only shown in overall photos of mill but in catalog pictured by itself under the mill lot number. Auction house T&C disclaims any responsibility for the items after hammer falls. The lots sat on the selling business’ property before, during, and after the sale. I have contacted both the auction house department head and the selling company’s VP about what I regard as the theft of a vise worth a few hundred $. They both replied that they are looking into the matter. I haven’t filed a police report yet, want to see if it isn’t resolved at a lower “level of escalation.”

charlie gary · Jul 24, 2018

Make sure there's not a time limit for filing a police report before waiting too long to do so.

medsar · Jul 24, 2018

I buy a lot of my tools/equipment from auction and that is a recurring problem. It doesn't happen every time, but it does happen fairly often. It's often enough that I don't bid as much just to account for potential losses due to theft. However, I have had good interactions with the auction house. They don't want a reputation of having things stolen from their auctions. Would the auction allow you to immediately pick up the item after the hammer falls? Usually not. Especially for such a big item. The company owner or the auction house should work with you if you have pictures from the auction showing that the vise was bolted down and in the auction pictures.

Tony Quiring · Jul 24, 2018

That should have been answered while you were on the phone.

Was it included or not.

If it was then insist they will recover it for you at once meaning while you are on the phone.

You advise you will expect it delivered at their cost crated or replaced via vendor of your choice.

If it was their employee then advise they have a theft problem and if you are not provided either the full retail value or the unit in your hands in proper time that law enforcement will be called...they may not be interested but still a problem for the business.

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Cannonmn · Jul 24, 2018

Thanks. I’m sure the auction house thought vise was included and took photos accordingly. The owner company had a duty to review and approve the catalog and they obviously failed to do that carefully. Some Other machinery auctions take care to spell out in plain English whether vises shown are included or not. The descriptions in this auction were limited to item name, model, and serial number, plus 6 or 7 photos. I’m sure the vise is legally mine. Police say there’s no set reporting time limit and wanted to take a report right then over the phone, but I’ll give the situation at least a few days to resolve itself. We cant afford theft insurance so that’s out. We never had another theft in last 15 years so it isn’t cost-effective to carry that.

Here’s one of the pics from the auction catalog:

converterking · Jul 24, 2018

I will agree that this sucks but be glad it was only a vise, not a control board or servo motor. If the machine runs when you receive it you did good.

Mud · Jul 24, 2018

someone from the still-active business selling the mill appeared while he was prepping mill and took the vise without answering rigger’s question as to what he was doing and why.

Sounds like the employee wanted it to take home.
Don't let the police tell you it's a civil problem between you and the company, it's theft.

mmarquette · Jul 24, 2018

I always like the small details in all of this. Be prepared to have them say you only got the mill if the listing said "Lot XYZ Milling Machine". If it says "Milling Machine w/Vise" Your good. No trying to poo poo what you are hopefully getting. Just looking at it from my view from the outside

EmGo · Jul 24, 2018

Jeeze, you guys. Don't go to auctions much, do you ?

You watch the small stuff like a hawk and make sure to take it with you if there's big stuff you have to leave behind. Put all your own stuff in a pile immediately. The auctioneers kinda help but they can't watch everything all the time. This is standard auction-going practice, the cops aren't going to do a thing, consider this a "you pay to learn" lesson. Waaah waaah waaah what a bunch of crybabies.

Whysosharp · Jul 24, 2018

Whether or not we are “cry babies” it’s still theft and I would contact the proper authorities. If at all possible make setup a face to face and look to see if you can find it on the shop floor. If not and the original owner wasn’t aware then his employee is in the shit.

Danny VanVoorn · Jul 24, 2018

EmanuelGoldstein said:
Jeeze, you guys. Don't go to auctions much, do you ?

You watch the small stuff like a hawk and make sure to take it with you if there's big stuff you have to leave behind. Put all your own stuff in a pile immediately. The auctioneers kinda help but they can't watch everything all the time. This is standard auction-going practice, the cops aren't going to do a thing, consider this a "you pay to learn" lesson. Waaah waaah waaah what a bunch of crybabies.

Live auction yes, awful hard to grab anything when the auction was on line!

You need to deal directly with the auction company, they don't want anything tarnishing their reputation. I would think the threat of a police report will motivate them because then there is room for a case with the BBB and those could lead to loss of future business from bigger companies.
Dan

Mebfab · Jul 24, 2018

Never understood how the online instead of live auction thing took off. Its cheaper for the auction house, easier to get robbed, and they charge a higher premium

Rob F. · Jul 24, 2018

If you get a police report it has to be much easier to file a BBB negative against auction company. They might start to care at that point but do not wait.

EmGo · Jul 25, 2018

Danny VanVoorn said:
Live auction yes, awful hard to grab anything when the auction was on line!

You're right, I missed that and it makes it even more ridiculous to get all wound up. Is it listed in the description ? "With vise, 8" Kurt" ? If not, kiss it off.

Intentionally deceitful is the norm in advertising. Did he ask ahead of time if the vise was included ? No ? Then no case. The floor is in that photo too but you don't get that, either. Vises are not part of a machine. They are separate attachements. If it's not listed, it's not yours.

When you do a sales contract, you make sure to list everything involved. Then both people look over the contract with a magnifying glass and make changes. Then they sign it. Assumptions are worthless.

You pay to learn.

Mebfab said:
Never understood how the online instead of live auction thing took off. Its cheaper for the auction house, easier to get robbed, and they charge a higher premium

For sure. Maybe the rare item across the country that you've wanted for ten years but normally, talk about a pig in a poke ...

chip_maker · Jul 25, 2018

The real theft here is the 15% or 18% for online bidders buyers premium.

That alone is the reason I don't do auctions anymore.

john.k · Jul 25, 2018

Reminds me of a buyer who paid thousands for contents of a tool room,picked up empty boxes........But sometimes it works in your favor........got a deal once for "all the drill bits on site"....and some employee had hidden a ton of new bits in several old cupboards ........when I picked them up,I was stopped at the gate by security.claimed the large quantity wasnt intended....Made a fortune from that one. The thing POs me is separating vices from the swivel bases,and selling the baes bolted to machines ,vices in a separate lot.......But,if youre smart you stand near the auctioneer,and ask as the lot is put up.."is the vice included"....he will note this on the sale sheet,and it will go on your sale docket.

ripperj · Jul 25, 2018

Not auction related, but same concept. I bought a lathe and lots of tooling from a guy I had never met before( he later turned out to be a great guy and very honest, but it’s was a Craigslist deal and I didn’t know at the time)
Short story long... he allowed me to pay for storing the lathe at his heated and insured warehouse for about a year,but I took everything I possibly could back with me. Chucks, toolpost, compound, fed/ rev contactors, outboard headstock gears. I made the lathe as useless to somebody else as I could, just in case.
Turned out to be over-kill, but I have been hosed before

K

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Cannonmn · Jul 25, 2018

Thanks, I asked Company VP about progress and he replied quickly that they’d found the vise, how would I like to proceed, btw has dozens of NMTB holders for the mill for less than Eboo price. So I’ll look at those when I pick up the vise. Good ending.

Rob F. · Jul 25, 2018

Glad it looks like a happy ending. :cheers:

Theft of auctioned equipment prior to buyer pickup

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