Tangible property tax
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  1. #1
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    Default Tangible property tax

    I'm tired of it. We are being taxed to death...I just paid $372,000 to these fuckers. I'm looking to pack it up and move to a state that gives a crap about what we do here and isn't interested in just digging in my pockets.


    What state are you in and what do you pay versus your value?



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    I had to read up on it. Good summary by state here:
    Tangible Personal Property | State Tangible Personal Property Taxes
    Looks like you live in one of the worst places for this particular tax. They seem to like this tax in the south, it's not so much of a burden up here in the north. You need to look in to some aggressive depreciation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by adh2000 View Post
    I had to read up on it. Good summary by state here:
    Tangible Personal Property | State Tangible Personal Property Taxes
    Looks like you live in one of the worst places for this particular tax. They seem to like this tax in the south, it's not so much of a burden up here in the north. You need to look in to some aggressive depreciation.
    We already depreciate as much as possible. We can't go by the 179 depreciation, it's the Arkansas state depreciation chart we have to follow. Furthermore this tax is I'm every state except a few. It's always been crazy to me that you keep getting taxed on stuff you already own.

    It's like the encourage you to not buy new equipment and to use old shit.

    I've had enough, we will move this year...and we planned on building a new building to expand this year.

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    don't get me started.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Dickman View Post
    don't get me started.
    I just got you started. Let's hear it.

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    In our county in California the tax on our personal property that includes our machines was 1 1/2%. The value used was the entire cost of the machine, move in cost (labor) and sales tax, I had always understood there was no tax on labor or tax but we paid it for 30+years. Getting the value of machines lowered as they age is very near impossible as they ues some kind of chart showing machinery values of 30 year old machines being worth often times more than they cost new with no exception for computer run machines that are outdated faster than the manual counterparts.

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    When the powers to be buy votes by stealing from those that have and give it to those that don't this will never stop...be careful how you vote.....Montana is better than most..but no work here...Phil

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    Quote Originally Posted by kustomizer View Post
    In our county in California the tax on our personal property that includes our machines was 1 1/2%. The value used was the entire cost of the machine, move in cost (labor) and sales tax, I had always understood there was no tax on labor or tax but we paid it for 30+years. Getting the value of machines lowered as they age is very near impossible as they ues some kind of chart showing machinery values of 30 year old machines being worth often times more than they cost new with no exception for computer run machines that are outdated faster than the manual counterparts.
    On a 2019 Haas dm2, $120,000 machine we pay $3200 on each machine per year. It's fucking insane.

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    Quote Originally Posted by as9100d View Post
    I just got you started. Let's hear it.

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    As you can see, I'm located in the Socialist Republic of California. I got audited a few years ago. Not because I had done anything wrong, I just looked like a good candidate for being fucked with.
    Long story short, I'm paying property tax on every chair, lamp, trash can. Machinery, too. And they have their own depreciation schedules, so a $200k machine when new they still tax you on $180K after 5 years.
    Nothing but cocksucking bullshit

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    Montana has no tax on the machine tools under 100k, but taxes on land and building are a joke, my shop... 6000sqr ft w/crane went form $2800 4 years ago to $12000 now....Have to quit... no way to pay the taxes....Phil

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Montana View Post
    Montana has no tax on the machine tools under 100k, but taxes on land and building are a joke, my shop... 6000sqr ft w/crane went form $2800 4 years ago to $12000 now....Have to quit... no way to pay the taxes....Phil
    We are looking at Ohio or possibly Kansas

    Ohio is no tpp and Kansas has structures that would exempt us for 10 years or longer if we maintain their high performance employers rating.

    I'd rather not pay any tpp at all forever. With Kansas we would have to move again which wouldn't be a big deal considering all the money we save.



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    Keep in mind you have to go where the work is....Phil

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Montana View Post
    Keep in mind you have to go where the work is....Phil
    We will have a meeting Monday with the employees and see who is onboard. I'll offer huge bonuses for the move. I'll basically free up $300,000 per year in top so after year 3 I'll start to see that savings considering move costs and bonuses.

    We are already in an area where employees are hard to find....surely things will be better near a bigger city.

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    Quote Originally Posted by as9100d View Post
    We will have a meeting Monday with the employees and see who is onboard. I'll offer huge bonuses for the move. I'll basically free up $300,000 per year in top so after year 3 I'll start to see that savings considering move costs and bonuses.

    We are already in an area where employees are hard to find....surely things will be better near a bigger city.

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    Stating the obvious but make sure you look at overall tax burden. Most places have much higher income tax than where you’re at.


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    Quote Originally Posted by adh2000 View Post
    Stating the obvious but make sure you look at overall tax burden. Most places have much higher income tax than where you’re at.


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    Of course. Anything has to be better than here. Most of my employees are pissed their tax dollars are being stolen by crooked people in the local gov here. Schools are negative and piss poor at best.

    I get the notion most everyone would want to leave.

    We are taxes on everything here and have some of the highest sales taxes in the country.

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    Interesting that Wisconsin has no TPP tax on machinery. Connecticut too, but who'd want to locate in CT...

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    Going to the big city has it's own price - city property tax on our new facility is $164.38 every single day of the week. Not to mention a grand a month for city sewer and water and another set of fees for Fire and Police permits to have our alarm monitoring services be able to call in when a problem is detected. I knew it would be more costly to get into a new facility, but I didn't think about these recurring costs that add up quickly to roughly $80k / year for the privilege of being "in the city".

    Add to this the Business & Operating tax in the state of Washington (B&O) and our own fair city and state end up taking quite a haul based on just being open for business whether you ever make a profit or not.

    I am glad that Washington State does not have an income tax. We sold equipment and engineering services to 27 different states in 2019 - we are a C-Corp which means that I had to file 27 separate income tax returns . . . one for each state. Our customers in California regularly see a "Doing business in California" line item on the invoice with a fixed amount to help offset the cost of calculating and paying taxes and fees to the state of California. New York is another fun place to sell equipment to. And our own beloved city of Seattle requires that I take out a business license to sell to companies in their city limits. All of this bureaucracy adds friction to the economy and it is aggravating at times to spend as much effort jumping through hoops and paying fees as you spend doing the actual work itself.

    At least with the Feds, if you have a loss during a year, you get your income tax back - not so with the city and state property and B&O taxes.

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    You might check out New Hampshire. While it has a fairly high RE property tax, there's no sales or income taxes, nor TPP. Lots of room, beautiful scenery and outdoors opportunities, snow (hey, Ox would love it).

    Overview of New Hampshire Taxes | NH Department of Revenue Administration

    There's a large industrial site opposite me that used to be a Norton Abrasives plant, it's being leased at the moment but I suspect could be for sale. The structures are a bit rambling and need some repair, but don't we all...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Dickman View Post
    As you can see, I'm located in the Socialist Republic of California. I got audited a few years ago. Not because I had done anything wrong, I just looked like a good candidate for being fucked with.
    Long story short, I'm paying property tax on every chair, lamp, trash can. Machinery, too. And they have their own depreciation schedules, so a $200k machine when new they still tax you on $180K after 5 years.
    Nothing but cocksucking bullshit

    Yep, California is no fun anymore. I just paid $250 to license my 22 year old truck. That's about the same that I paid 22 years ago when it was new. Sure glad I don't have a new one. I can't imagine what the licenses would cost.

    But it's all for a good cause. Out dissolute new governor needs the money to give it to illegal immigrants. He plans to give them $75 million this year alone.

    Don't believe me?

    Financial help for California’s undocumented immigrants starts Monday | CalMatters

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    find a competant lawyer and cpa

    find every possible exemtion (my office and toolroom are homesteaded)

    form a new corp and apply for the exemtion

    put your mind into it

    do not fight fair but do fight

    during the audit be sure that the ac is broken and send the apropriate hand to assist

    make sure that his hands are filthy and his boots are covered in red mud

    yes ad valorum sucks but everything is contestable

    or run but the devil you know is better than the one you dont know


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