Temporarily heating shop space

Matt@RFR · Dec 23, 2018

Fellas, we are allowed back to the shop after the big fire here in California, we have power as of today and water should be coming this week. What we don't have is gas, and it's currently 55º in the shop and it's going to get much colder. This is usually kept to 68 +/-2º year round.

What is a good way of temporarily heating this space until we get gas service back? I don't think we can convert our furnaces to propane, but I'll be asking my A/C guy anyway.

It is 2400 sq ft, 14 foot walls with a 4/12 pitch roof.

bigjon61 · Dec 23, 2018

Kerosene/Diesel space heater. Get a couple of them and some fans to circulate the heat, and prop a couple doors open for ventilation and fresh air. Should keep it manageable for the time being.

Esracerx46 · Dec 23, 2018

Where I'm at, 55 is about as warm as my shop gets this time of year with the overheads opening as often as they do. Wear a jacket? My suggestion would be a torpedo heater. Some use diesel or kerosene. Others use propane. Definitely not ideal with the smell and the need to monitor carbon monoxide.

idacal · Dec 23, 2018

I use one of these Val 6 KBE5S – Cougar Chemical in the shop, very little smell and isn't roaring like a torpedo heater. but I'm not trying to hold a temperature for tolerance work Im just making it comfortable. shop a little smaller, 2000 square feet, but 18' roof with no fans. could probably use your air handlers on your furnaces to move the heat around whatever you use

Rob F. · Dec 23, 2018

It should be easy to rejet the furnaces for propane. I dont think anything else changes.

tommy1010 · Dec 23, 2018

What we had at every construction site here in Pa. were propane space heaters. 500,000 btus. Big tanks delivered and piped inside through yellow coated copper. IU am sure you can get something similar but a lot smaller. We even had portable heaters (propane) that were used for large tents. CO monitoring and oxygen depletion monitors. I would never again use a kerosene or fuel oil space heater in a machine shop. Massive headaches at the end of the day and you stink when you go home.

gbent · Dec 23, 2018

For an operation as fussy as yours don't go the unvented route. You will run into condensation problems. I'm with Rob, it is easy to rejet the furnaces to LP (smaller orifice for LP). Some manufacturers are pretty fussy about supplying other orifices, others are happy to accommodate.

Around here there are 3 LP suppliers that would spot a tank and fill it within a day. They would also handle the furnace conversion.

9100 · Dec 23, 2018

I agree with gbent. My experience with unvented heaters is with natural gas ones, but some of the same problems are going to arise with other types. The normal combustion products of hydrocarbon fuels are CO2 and water. I tried unvented gas and so did a friend. Both of us had rust problems. it just goes with the animal.

Bill

Rob F. · Dec 23, 2018

I was on a construction job and they tried to use propane heaters to speed the drywall mud drying. The condensation kept it all from drying. The condensation from your furnace will be vented outside.

Matt@RFR · Dec 23, 2018

Thanks a ton guys. I'll ask my a/c guy (who knows my system well) about specifics tomorrow, maybe I can get him to handle the whole conversion / tank setting / plumbing, etc.

Any idea how horrific LP usage will be compared to NG?

Esracerx46 said:
Wear a jacket?

I should have specified: This is for holding tolerances, not for comfort.

Rob F. · Dec 24, 2018

Try to get a 100lb tank from propane supplier, they may rent it or just let you use it when you buy the propane. You will probably use less (maybe even 1/2) propane due to higher BTU of propane.
If you cant sleep:
Propane Vs. Natural Gas - A Comparison
Try to get the tank installed in the heated space if is too cold up there. The tank will not have pressure in it if the contents get to cold.

Milland · Dec 24, 2018

Matt@RFR said:
Thanks a ton guys. I'll ask my a/c guy (who knows my system well) about specifics tomorrow, maybe I can get him to handle the whole conversion / tank setting / plumbing, etc.

Any idea how horrific LP usage will be compared to NG?

I should have specified: This is for holding tolerances, not for comfort.

For the time being, it might be worth correcting vital programs to compensate for the CTE change, but if you can get propane working in the furnace then go for that.

thermite · Dec 24, 2018

Matt@RFR said:
currently 55º in the shop and it's going to get much colder. This is usually kept to 68 +/-2º year round.

What is a good way of temporarily heating this space until we get gas service back?
.
.
It is 2400 sq ft, 14 foot walls with a 4/12 pitch roof.

View attachment 245217

You need that YEAR round "standard' temp held all-day 24 X 7 as well?

Or just a hour or two before a single shift starts, then until shutdown?

Do you have a South-facing exposure?

I'm thinking solar THERMAL wall AND roof, with modest storage, store-bought power augmented for fine-tuning, AND NOT solar photovoltaic.

Meanwhile, I'd use electric heat until the gas is restored.

Electric Powerco has run all-new, but only a fraction of the original whole-town load will be taking it up, next calandar quarter or three.

Gasco will be moving as fast as they can, so it should only be a few months longer, much less than a year, yah?

SND · Dec 24, 2018

Quick cheap way is 1 or 2 5000watt fan heaters. They'll cost you about $100-150each. Plug into 240V, done. None of the moisture and issues of portable propane heaters and such. Heck in your area maybe a few of the little 120V fan heaters that go in a regular outlet and put out about 1500watts would probably be enough, and leave the lights on.
But, best thing is a mini split heat pump, but its more $ and a bit more time.

danil · Dec 24, 2018

I use Fostoria electric construction heaters. No smells, no moisture. Just plug in and go. I have a single 3 phase unit that comfortably heats 7000 sq. feet. They do make much smaller units and single phase units as well.

A clip from their description: This Fostoria Portable Electric Salamander Heater is a powerful alternative to propane and kerosene space heaters. With a strong tubular steel frame and 10in. wheels, this rugged heater goes anywhere to deliver up to 34,130 BTU of dry, dependable heat. Electric power means no moisture gets added back into the air.

thermite · Dec 24, 2018

SND said:
Quick cheap way is 1 or 2 5000watt fan heaters. They'll cost you about $100-150each. Plug into 240V, done. None of the moisture and issues of portable propane heaters and such. Heck in your area maybe a few of the little 120V fan heaters that go in a regular outlet and put out about 1500watts would probably be enough, and leave the lights on.
But, best thing is a mini split heat pump, but its more $ and a bit more time.

+1 on "working" the lighting for heat and keeping supplemental heat cheap and re-purposable/trade-awayable. Lots of locals will need this stuff as they gradually rebuild, next year if not this year. You'll not long be stuck "holding" it even once commercial gas comes back.

Gets down to below zero F parts of the year, here. Uber-insulated shop gets Edison-base LEDs, warmer months, 150 W Old skewl incandescents good only for the few months of hard cold. Lighting is actually my primary heat source. Thank you, Nela Park training course.

Coupla 1000-1500W DeLonghi electric/oil-rad caster-wheeled portable "space" heaters are switched-on only if I'm working in it and/or outdoors is 20-odd F or below.

Just ONE closed-off zone - roughly 10 X 25 - is set-up to hold standard temp +/- about 2 to 5 degrees, 24 X 7 if I NEED it for layout and metrology. Mostly I do not, but it is comfy!

TDegenhart · Dec 24, 2018

+1 for the electric heat. Since this only a temporary solution. As noted leave the incandescent lights on, let the machines warm up for a while.

Tom

cosmos_275 · Dec 24, 2018

I've used this one for years: link

Buy 2. One does my 1200 sq ft shop ok. Can't imagine running something producing CO indoors.

Big B · Dec 24, 2018

I'm with the switch the furnace over to LP crowd. Not much of a job to do it. Any competent heating/cooling contractor should be able to do it fairly easily and you don't need to change or add anything else. A big no on the unvented gas heaters. Way too much moisture for a shop or much of anything else except maybe a tent. I've used both natural gas and lp unvented heaters and don't recommend them.

My second choice would probably be a kerosene/diesel salamander heater. Electric is nice but very expensive.

thermite · Dec 24, 2018

CosmosK said:
I've used this one for years: link

Buy 2. One does my 1200 sq ft shop ok. Can't imagine running something producing CO indoors.

Nor even OUTDOORS and in free air.

Ft. Belvoir, winter of 1966 IIRC. An Officer Candidate on an FTX got cold, sat down on the ground next to the crack between front and rear tires of a tandem-axle multifuel idling on Diesel to enjoy the warmth of the exhaust down the BACK of his field-jacket for a few minutes.

He never woke up.

"Unofficial" reaction was that he was obviously too damned stupid to have ended-up being granulated as a Combat Engineer Officer in any case, high enough marks to get INTO the class or not, so "BFD", no real loss.

They DID do an investigation to see if it was a possible suicide, but even that was too dumb for belief, so seemed not.

Temporarily heating shop space

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