Thinking about moving my shop to my new building at home. - Page 2
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 139
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    North Central Montana
    Posts
    4,513
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    734
    Likes (Received)
    618

    Default

    If at all possible...DO IT!!!

    My 3k sq ft shop is 12 feet below my house. The advantages are too many to mention. You instinctively know this already.

    That guy has WAY TOO MANY inroads to your LIFE...

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Navasota / Whitehall Texas
    Posts
    3,815
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2814
    Likes (Received)
    2179

    Default

    Do you have a set repayment schedule? Do you have a lease on the building?

    Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    8,725
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    625
    Likes (Received)
    4440

    Default

    Gross sales is a meaningless number without knowing the cost of sales. What portion is markup on your labor and what portion is resale of parts that you install?

    How much value did you add?

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Illinois
    Posts
    161
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Monarchist View Post
    See post #4. Bank is isn't likely to be an option. Too small and uncertain a free cash flow, near-zero collateral.

    Ez-Trak sounds as if it is the newest machine of any consequence, which as 'collateral' ain't much consequence even were to be brand-new. Which it prolly very much ain't.

    "He and I" implies he is still at least part-time help. Advising, perhaps assisting hands-on in a pinch or at round-up time prepping for those Friday deliveries, making & taking phone calls, chatting up customers to keep them sweet, etc.

    If there are not costs associated with that coverage, there will be if/as/when you move.

    It dasn't sound as if you are extravagant or have expensive habits. Other than deferring that outbuilding - even selling your residence, doubtful there is much you can cut in your own lifestyle that you have not already cut that would fund a higher rate of buyout.

    Your rate of payout to-date indicates you have another three to five years of it ahead of you. Meanwhile, customer and their needs change, machinery of production gets older-yet, reliability drops, maintenance costs go up, tooling and materials are on-track to become more costly, not less-so.

    Productivity/competitiveness/flexibility to take on new work? Already behind the power-curve as shop equipment goes.

    Not the worst of boxes to be in, but you have little/no reserve for misfortune, nought to invest in upgrading capabilities.

    There is a need to find a way to improve the gross margin on the operation.

    Debt of 130K may not seem like it, but is small enough money that EXTENDING the payback time is low-enough risk to the former owner he might consider it... IF, IF, IF.. the money "borrowed" were to go towards at least one machine-tool that could significantly improve your capability AND he/you knew where to take advantage of that, agreed it could work, and with a high degree of confidence.

    If done and proven-out, improved gross margin could see you could go back to a faster payout within a year.

    Actually a 'one-year payback' is your hard criteria on the decision. Most always.

    Bottom line is that you need a 'future'. A viable 'breakout' strategy - and a means to fund it - that gets you up out of a 'static' defensive trench and earning on a higher level.

    Otherwise, perhaps you could marry the guy and make the mutual dependency formal so you have a shot at inheriting whatever dregs are left when the day comes?

    Bill

    This is almost spot on. The EZ Trak was bought new in 1994. The head could use a rebuild but that's another story. He passes through the shop on a daily basis usually to take out his garbage in the dumpster. He pays that bill. If I have a question about doing a job. He would offer how he would do it. That's about it though. He won't make chips, calls or anything else. That's fine. He put in his time. He's retired. The first year I had a question everyday. Now I'm to the point where I don't really do that anymore. I've probably asked him three questions all year just because he happened to be standing there while I was looking at something.

    Now for my income. When it's all said and done. My net is around fifty for the year. Then subtract house payment and business loan payment and whatever else that isn't tax deductible and it doesn't look so good. I don't buy anything for myself. I drive a rusty truck with two hundred fifty thousand miles on it. Having a roof over my head and food on the table is my payment for working like I do. Then loan term with him is ten years. He won't stretch it out longer. He's already clearly a nervous wreck about getting his money back and wants me to borrow the remainder from the bank if they ever will loan it to me. I just don't want to live like this for another six years if I don't have too. I'm doing what I can to move forward.

  5. Likes barbter liked this post
  6. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Navasota / Whitehall Texas
    Posts
    3,815
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2814
    Likes (Received)
    2179

    Default

    Say you were able to move the shop to your place. That would allow you to apply the rent you pay to the current balance on the loan. Of course he will still be receiving the same about of money but the loan would be paid off faster.

    Might be a chance he would go for that if he is nervous enough... Is he going to be around in 6 years?

    How much interest are you paying him now? Might be cheaper to refinance your home and new shop location if you can get enough cash out to pay him off..

  7. Likes barbter, Jashley73 liked this post
  8. #26
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    10,264
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    5843
    Likes (Received)
    4639

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by A.Delaney View Post
    This is almost spot on.
    Glad to hear that part anyway. Time was I earned serious sheckels for ability to 'sess out an accurate big picture on scant, flawed, and deliberately misleading info.

    Now... what to Do for yerself about it...

    The original deal seems fair enough, except that without perhaps EITHER of you realizing it you were buying-into a 'sunset' enterprise.

    Best days already several years in the past. Means of production (machine tools ++) over-age in grade and in decline. Product / services with low/no prospects for innovation, limited 'organic' growth.

    So you are into a holding pattern, lo these several years now.

    Longer hours your major response to challenges, and that has its own destructive end-game built-in.
    I'm doing what I can to move forward.
    Yes, but you may have to move SIDEWAYS for a while if you want to get onto a track with a better future.

    Becoming an 'employee' again, elsewhere, dasn't seem like a fit. The 50K - encumbered as it may be - is already above the mark for 'hired help' in many places. Worse, those 'encumbrances' do not exactly vanish even if you threw in the towel on this package yesterday morning.

    Even so, identifying a problem and its flavours does not resolve it.

    Hopefully you will focus more on finding greater value out of that facility move, PLUS OTHER changes - than just separation from the Old Guard, 24-mile commute, and stress reduction.

    Change for the better won't ordinarily hunt you down and force itself on you.

    You have to make the time and do the research, plotting, scheming, resource grasping, decision-making and risk-taking to force yourself on IT.

    Go for that.

    Re-evaluate the new building so it can make a MAJOR difference. ELSE cancel it.

    Don't stop with that. Keep seeking and making improvements, large or small - most especially those that buy back 'alert' TIME to research and plan better moves, yet. "alert' as-in early morning or such, AND NOT wore-out and sleep walking at the end of a 12 or 16 hour grind + zombified commute.

    At some point, you'll have ID'ed a more lucrative / lower labour content product or service mix.

    It may not have SQRT of FA to do with what you have BEEN doing nor the machinery it has been done on.
    Probably best if it for-sure does not.


    Bill

  9. Likes barbter, Jashley73 liked this post
  10. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Illinois
    Posts
    161
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by swatkins View Post
    Do you have a set repayment schedule? Do you have a lease on the building?

    Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
    Loan term is 10 years. I can pay it off anytime. Rent is month by month.

  11. #28
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Illinois
    Posts
    161
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by swatkins View Post
    Say you were able to move the shop to your place. That would allow you to apply the rent you pay to the current balance on the loan. Of course he will still be receiving the same about of money but the loan would be paid off faster.

    Might be a chance he would go for that if he is nervous enough... Is he going to be around in 6 years?

    How much interest are you paying him now? Might be cheaper to refinance your home and new shop location if you can get enough cash out to pay him off..
    He's 71 so I'd imagine so but shit happens. 5% is the interest rate

  12. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Houston TX
    Posts
    3,972
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    16
    Likes (Received)
    2173

    Default

    Maybe I missed it, but have you priced the building the way you need it and sure you can swing it?

    I signed the papers a week or two ago for my shop and not only is it expensive, but nothing will ever go to plan.

    Going though the wonderful fun of lining up schedules and weather right now.....

  13. #30
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    10,264
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    5843
    Likes (Received)
    4639

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alskdjfhg View Post
    nothing will ever go to plan.
    Dunno how far along yer formal education is on that part, but nothing is MEANT to go entirely to 'plan'.

    A plan is just the thing you look at to remind yerself what it is you are revising, from whence and why.

    Projects - unique not cookie-cutter - that go EXACTLY to plan have nearly always overlooked flaws and missed unexpected chances at improvements.

    A new McDonalds or Walmart can get close to plan. They've done brazillions of 'em arredy.

    YOUR shop is not cookie-cutter standard. You'll have to stay alert, involved, and spring-loaded into decision-maker mode.

    As you will, I am sure. It isn't even stressful if you LIKE it.


  14. Likes Greg White liked this post
  15. #31
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Illinois
    Posts
    161
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Monarchist View Post
    Glad to hear that part anyway. Time was I earned serious sheckels for ability to 'sess out an accurate big picture on scant, flawed, and deliberately misleading info.

    Now... what to Do for yerself about it...

    The original deal seems fair enough, except that without perhaps EITHER of you realizing it you were buying-into a 'sunset' enterprise.

    Best days already several years in the past. Means of production (machine tools ++) over-age in grade and in decline. Product / services with low/no prospects for innovation, limited 'organic' growth.

    So you are into a holding pattern, lo these several years now.

    Longer hours your major response to challenges, and that has its own destructive end-game built-in.


    Yes, but you may have to move SIDEWAYS for a while if you want to get onto a track with a better future.

    Becoming an 'employee' again, elsewhere, dasn't seem like a fit. The 50K - encumbered as it may be - is already above the mark for 'hired help' in many places. Worse, those 'encumbrances' do not exactly vanish even if you threw in the towel on this package yesterday morning.

    Even so, identifying a problem and its flavours does not resolve it.

    Hopefully you will focus more on finding greater value out of that facility move, PLUS OTHER changes - than just separation from the Old Guard, 24-mile commute, and stress reduction.

    Change for the better won't ordinarily hunt you down and force itself on you.

    You have to make the time and do the research, plotting, scheming, resource grasping, decision-making and risk-taking to force yourself on IT.

    Go for that.

    Re-evaluate the new building so it can make a MAJOR difference. ELSE cancel it.

    Don't stop with that. Keep seeking and making improvements, large or small - most especially those that buy back 'alert' TIME to research and plan better moves, yet. "alert' as-in early morning or such, AND NOT wore-out and sleep walking at the end of a 12 or 16 hour grind + zombified commute.

    At some point, you'll have ID'ed a more lucrative / lower labour content product or service mix.

    It may not have SQRT of FA to do with what you have BEEN doing nor the machinery it has been done on.
    Probably best if it for-sure does not.


    Bill


    It worked good for him all those years. He didn't have the expenses I do and honestly I don't think he understands that it's not the same for me as when he had it. He painted a good picture to this 29 year old at the time dude with big dreams. He told me not to worry. I'd have more money than I realized. I really wish he was right. I was hoping the move would help. My current place is 24'x60' and the building I am building is 50'x72'. This leaves me with more space. Hopefully the savings in rent would allow me to get a Proto Trak lathe. A cnc lathe would really help me speed things up. Maybe I'll start another thread about maintenance work vs production or anything else. I've often wondered if I have limited myself doing this type of machining. I worked in a large maintenance machine shop for 10 years before this venture. I made 65k a year with overtime. I think I had more money then. Less stress for sure. Didn't lay awake at night staring at the ceiling trying to think of what to do next or how am I going to pay for this. Didn't need a therapist to help with all this anxiety. I'm committed now and I really want it. It's what I've always wanted. I just need to keep working at it.

  16. Likes barbter liked this post
  17. #32
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Illinois
    Posts
    161
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alskdjfhg View Post
    Maybe I missed it, but have you priced the building the way you need it and sure you can swing it?

    I signed the papers a week or two ago for my shop and not only is it expensive, but nothing will ever go to plan.

    Going though the wonderful fun of lining up schedules and weather right now.....
    The building actually only added $30 to my mortgage. I'll have to finish it as I can afford it. So if and when the move happens who knows. This is all just a recent idea I thought about.

  18. #33
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    10,264
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    5843
    Likes (Received)
    4639

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by A.Delaney View Post
    Hopefully the savings in rent would allow me to get a Proto Trak lathe.
    Savings? Pay him so much a month. Pay yerself or the bank so much a month.

    New building ain't falling out of the sky for free, izzit?

    As to the stress?

    BFD.

    They can kill you. They can even eat you. Been that way since BEFORE we climbed down outta trees. All here have had to deal with that, are still doing, or will do again.

    Your ancestors have already successfully dealt with the first several million years or you wouldn't BE here. Accordingly, future odds are very much in your favour.

    All you have to handle now is one day at a time going forward.

    Can't sleep?

    Get mean, plot, scheme..

    ...and take notes, lest it is all forgotten and wasted.



    Bill

  19. Likes makezee liked this post
  20. #34
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Illinois
    Posts
    161
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    24

    Default

    Here's a kicker. Two of my friends each started there own business after I did. One is a carpenter and the other a fabricator. Both are driving new trucks and buying new equipment. Going places. Doing things. Loving life. I was told I'd have it easier than them because I was buying a money making business. Not even close.

  21. #35
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Akron, OH
    Posts
    1,999
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    332
    Likes (Received)
    1526

    Default

    Are you making $50k a year plus the $30k a year in paying down the note, or is paying down the note part of the 50k and you're really making 20?

    In the first case you paid a fairish price for the business and you just need to suck it up til the note is paid. If it is the second case you guys really mis-valued the business.

    In either case, it is YOUR business, not his. He doesn't get to come in and borrow YOUR tools and bits of scrap. He doesn't get to see YOUR mail. If he wanted it different he shouldn't have sold. Take YOUR stuff and move wherever you darn well please.

  22. Likes makezee liked this post
  23. #36
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    10,264
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    5843
    Likes (Received)
    4639

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by A.Delaney View Post
    Here's a kicker. Two of my friends each started there own business after I did. One is a carpenter and the other a fabricator. Both are driving new trucks and buying new equipment. Going places. Doing things. Loving life. I was told I'd have it easier than them because I was buying a money making business. Not even close.
    "I was told....?" Brother, you do NOT wanna hear some of OUR stories out in PM-land.

    Bottom line is that they had more accurate advice, sharper business sense, better timing, more lucrative fields, the indefinable thing called "luck"... some combination or all of the above. That's life.

    I once turned down the entire North American Distributorship, US and Canada, magnetic media for a little half-assed Japanese firm called 'Japanese Victor Corporation'. Floppy disks? Whoinhell figured they'd ever become a consumer item? And who was "JVC" anyway?

    Nipponese Headhunters and and American blindsight, gotta love 'em!

    Being behind the power-curve doesn't make you a less valuable human being, nor even a gullible one. Just someone with a different skill set than was needed at the time.

    And still-yet.

    NOW you have to fill in the gaps, make decisions, make changes on TODAY'S realities.

    You certainly will not be the first among us...



    Look around locally. Small Business Advisors. Cheap or even free ones. What you could use is 'greypower'. Someone NOT your former boss who is retired, has paid the same dues, earned the same tee-shirts - with the odd bullet-hole or three, who can go over your numbers and help you find and put to good use options you do not yet know you have.

    Bill

  24. #37
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Illinois
    Posts
    161
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Comatose View Post
    Are you making $50k a year plus the $30k a year in paying down the note, or is paying down the note part of the 50k and you're really making 20?

    In the first case you paid a fairish price for the business and you just need to suck it up til the note is paid. If it is the second case you guys really mis-valued the business.

    In either case, it is YOUR business, not his. He doesn't get to come in and borrow YOUR tools and bits of scrap. He doesn't get to see YOUR mail. If he wanted it different he shouldn't have sold. Take YOUR stuff and move wherever you darn well please.
    The purchase price of the business was one year of sales. Yes you take the 50k and then deduct what I pay him.

  25. #38
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    10,264
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    5843
    Likes (Received)
    4639

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by A.Delaney View Post
    The purchase price of the business was one year of sales. Yes you take the 50k and then deduct what I pay him.
    Well... one year of top-line, five or ten years of bottom-line.. pretty 'vanilla' starting-point yardsticks for Donkey's Years.

    But there is another point. Payout structure doesn't look as tax efficient as it could be, either.

    You need someone local with 'money smarts' skills to audit and advise Real Soon Now.

    And an Operations Audit - or as much as you can afford of one. You may be totally convinced you are saving every possible dime.

    Whilst working 12 + hours a day?

    Not YET you ain't.

    First go through of folk with the training and experience some among us have had?

    Typically as much as ten percent of gross can be found just laying there, wasted or idle, and nothing breaks if you put it to better work. Second and subsequent runs are ball-busters to find more savings, but the first go is a slam-dunk.

    Bill

  26. #39
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Illinois
    Posts
    161
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Monarchist View Post
    "I was told....?" Brother, you do NOT wanna hear some of OUR stories out in PM-land.

    Bottom line is that they had more accurate advice, sharper business sense, better timing, more lucrative fields, the indefinable thing called "luck"... some combination or all of the above. That's life.

    I once turned down the entire North American Distributorship, US and Canada, magnetic media for a little half-assed Japanese firm called 'Japanese Victor Corporation'. Floppy disks? Whoinhell figured they'd ever become a consumer item? And who was "JVC" anyway?

    Nipponese Headhunters and and American blindsight, gotta love 'em!

    Being behind the power-curve doesn't make you a less valuable human being, nor even a gullible one. Just someone with a different skill set than was needed at the time.

    And still-yet.

    NOW you have to fill in the gaps, make decisions, make changes on TODAY'S realities.

    You certainly will not be the first among us...



    Look around locally. Small Business Advisors. Cheap or even free ones. What you could use is 'greypower'. Someone NOT your former boss who is retired, has paid the same dues, earned the same tee-shirts - with the odd bullet-hole or three, who can go over your numbers and help you find and put to good use options you do not yet know you have.

    Bill

    That's why I'm here. Get some advice from the people that have been through it all before me.

    That's a kicker about JVC for sure.

    Lol "greypower" yes I did find a new accountant. My last accountant best advice was "I pay to much in loans". Yes I already know that. I needed an accountant that did consulting also. Now I have that.

  27. #40
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Akron, OH
    Posts
    1,999
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    332
    Likes (Received)
    1526

    Default

    See if you can find a local SCORE chapter. They're retired, and free, and some of them are excellent.

    SCORE | Free Small Business Advice


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •