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  1. #21
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    One thing with technical terms; the English language has so many words with similar overlapping definitions, each with a slightly nuanced meaning. that have been adopted at one time or another for specific technical purposes. To "talk shop" in English and not sound like a novice, rather than knowing the one overall general term, one needs to know the specific term that's commonly used.

    A hole is an opening through something; there is no implication of accuracy... but then who ever thought that a hole made with a twist drill had any accuracy, so the term is proper. Bore implies an opening into which something is expected to fit, usually made in the past with a boring bar. The term implies more accuracy than just a hole.

    Take the terms slit, slot, and groove. They all have common meanings in general usage, and all have practically the same definition.

    slit is a long narrow cut or opening. Common usage often implies as if cut with a knife, such a slit your throat.
    slot is a long narrow opening, and common usage often implies it goes through the material, as a mail slot in a door.
    groove is a long narrow channel or depression, which it implies it has a bottom, and doesn't go through the material.

    If I was talking about the cuts that divide the segments of a collet, I would call them slits as they were likely cut with a slitting saw.

    The grooves in a mill table are called T slots not grooves, even though they don't go through. I think the term was chosen because the slot for the stud does go all the way through into the wider groove that accommodates the T nut.

    O rings need a bottom for support. They always go in a groove not a slot.

    So many words, so many choices. Someone picks a descriptive term, someone else picks another, eventually references like Machinery's Handbook define which is the preferred usage.

    Dennis
    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by wheels17 View Post
    The recharacterization of common words to specialized meanings in narrow fields is very interesting as well. I'm sure every word in this paragraph has clear meaning to the general public, but the paragraph is meaningless to all but a very limited community. Within the community, it is concise and clear.

    The very first hijacked term (dope) brought about some funny looks when discussed in public. It refers to a solvent solution of a plastic, and ties in with the "airplane dopes" used for fabric covered airplanes. The paragraph describes a bad day at my old job.

    The dope in system 31 was contaminated by a leak in the fixed slot cooler and created a rash of slugs at the same time the 7th sub drum head caused cinches. The jet also had clear spots and BB lines. The paper clip friction was low. The softness was fine, but the removability was poor. Only one area was standard grade fine. Curl and residuals were ok. The stone crusher was starting to develop issues causing crosslines. Lowering the mica baffle had no effect. Lowering the Q baffle increased the vacuum and made the crosslines action grade, but made the bullseyes worse.
    Say what?

    Tom

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    We once had a part-timer helping out in our lathe department at my first shop. He was always calling inserts "bits". It drove me crazy!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jvizzi View Post
    We once had a part-timer helping out in our lathe department at my first shop. He was always calling inserts "bits". It drove me crazy!
    That comes from the construction trades, which was my background, long ago. A carpenter used a brace to drive auger bits. When I was a kid, electricity on the job site wasn't a given, and every carpenter carried bits 'n brace, never heard them called anything else. From this usage, twist drills became drill bits, and when power screwdrivers came along, those little screwdriver tips became screwdriver bits. Therefore, it's pretty easy to make the connection that little changeable cutters are called bits. Thing is, when you change trades, you've got to listen, to pick up the lexicon of the new trade.

    Dennis

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mechanola View Post
    Holes and slits were forbidden with one of my teachers. I thought his is right. We are mechanics, machinists, manufacturers, makers of—well, bores and grooves and pockets and more.

    My native language is German. I know a couple expressions in French which helps a lot with reading interesting literature. Of course, many things are explained and described in English and it is not so long ago that I understood how differing English can be. Anyway, I like to give things their proper name, you know, a tube is longer than a bushing, a piece of tubing can be taken for a ring. Where is the transition from ring to washer? At one-to-one relation of length and thickness?

    Slide rule? Slide ruler? Gauge slide? Measure slide? Hex screw or hex head screw? Certainly no standards will ever be put to force for the lingo. Do you even care about expressions?
    We have Britons, Americans and handfull of non-native english speakers here on PM. I don't care much what is the official word for something if half of the readers in here don't have clue what is that.
    Also some of the very commonly used "shop talk" can be total gibberish on the other side ofthe pond..
    -Allen key
    -Crescent wrench

    Any guesses what is " Mauser" on machinists toolbox?
    Stotz or Pandu for electrician?

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    Not so much a worry if I can get the speaker's intentions. I'm sure I mangle many terms in many instances.

    One that drives me nuts is "hone a cutting tool" or "honed edge".
    To some this means sharpen razor sharp... to a cutting tool maker it means dulling and putting a radius on the edge.
    Often I have to question the use of the term from the user as to what they are after.
    Never bothered by bits for inserts and this is fairly common, they are cutting tool bits.
    Mostly you can get the meaning from the rest of the conversation and if not sure you ask a question.
    If the term is confusing, you don't quite get it, or is not technically right in your world why not ask?

    Floor operators in big plants have all kinds of slang or misnames for things in machining.
    I'm not too proud to say "I do not understand", look like a fool and ask for help understanding their terminology.

    And WTF is a "Mil", 6 Mil plastic is not 6mm thick yet in a metric plant many will say "we are out by .015 mil" or worse yet 15 mils when they mean microns.

    A big part is understanding that the person in front of you has terms or wording that he/she is familiar with, has learned from lord knows where, and correct be dammed it is their usage you have to be able to grasp and understand.
    If not, who is the inflexible and not so bright person in the conversation?
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by WoodBee View Post
    For instance "depth of cut of X". Sometimes is literally the depth of cut, sometimes the reduction in diameter is meant. Very confusing...
    Well, there's the reason to be a pedant. It always means the actual depth of the cut, and if a person says it meaning a reduction in diameter, he is using the term incorrectly.

    While it is nice to say "We need to be flexible" it's also true that misuse of a term leads to mistakes and confusion.

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    Some terms tell you right off the bat a clients knowledge of machining...can you "shave" a bit off the top. I need a real accurate fit, just take a "little off".


    In the shop I try to keep everyone on the same measuring terms lingo...that is we work in thousandths of an inch.

    - When we say +/- "One" we all need to know that "1" means 1/1000"
    - A "tenth" is one tenth of one thousandth of an inch.
    - Keep within five tenths means a half thousandth of an inch.

    1/8" (.125) will be said as One Twenty Five or more specific Point One Twenty Five, never Twelve Fifty (.1250).

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    And WTF is a "Mil", 6 Mil plastic is not 6mm thick yet in a metric plant many will say "we are out by .015 mil" or worse yet 15 mils when they mean microns.
    A "mil" is an archaic term for a thousandth of an inch, still used in some trades where accurate measure is somewhat of a dream, such as paint and coatings, or in your example, blown film. It comes from the same root as millimeter, but is not being used to indicate metric measure. Another mostly obsolete use of the term is to indicate a tenth of a penny ( 1/1000 of a dollar.) Back in the days when a dollar was actually worth a lot of money, tax was figured in mils, then rounded up to the nearest even penny.

    Dennis

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  14. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    A big part is understanding that the person in front of you has terms or wording that he/she is familiar with, has learned from lord knows where, and correct be dammed it is their usage you have to be able to grasp and understand.
    If not, who is the inflexible and not so bright person in the conversation?
    Bob
    In an assembly department full of women you find that everything will quickly get a new name. A gyro wheel and torque coil unit that had to be balanced while supported on a pair of trunnions became the "dippy bird", remember them? A junction box with multiple cables hanging out of it was inevitably "the octopus", and so on. You had to adapt. Referring to something by the production code number just elicited a blank stare.

    Bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by 9100 View Post
    Referring to something by the production code number just elicited a blank stare.

    Bill
    I do that frequently when customer asks about a job by the P.O. I make a number of parts for one customer that I have no idea what the official name of the part is. Blank stare from me when they ask about those parts by official name. Conversely, blank stare from them when I call the part by the name we use.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 9100 View Post
    In an assembly department full of women you find that everything will quickly get a new name. A gyro wheel and torque coil unit that had to be balanced while supported on a pair of trunnions became the "dippy bird", remember them? A junction box with multiple cables hanging out of it was inevitably "the octopus", and so on. You had to adapt. Referring to something by the production code number just elicited a blank stare.

    Bill
    That reminds me of the story about the Harriers built by McDonnell.
    McDonnell wanted to use fan jets with afterburner but it was decided to use 1:1 bypass with re-heat.
    Don't know if you heard that story or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 9100 View Post
    In an assembly department full of women you find that everything will quickly get a new name. A gyro wheel and torque coil unit that had to be balanced while supported on a pair of trunnions became the "dippy bird", remember them? A junction box with multiple cables hanging out of it was inevitably "the octopus", and so on. You had to adapt. Referring to something by the production code number just elicited a blank stare.

    Bill
    Don't need women for that. When the official model is something like GBX-134563-4 and another is GBX-12356-4 you are pretty much guaranteed to come up with something more descriptive in day-to-day talk..like "black arsehole" and "red snail" calibration ovens in one lab.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 9100 View Post
    In an assembly department full of women you find that everything will quickly get a new name.

    Bill
    Men and women are equal at that game. If there's a chance to give something a "funny" name it'll get one. The biggest difference is that if it's a man giving the name it's almost always something to do with sex.

    In Danish a "kussehår" (pussy hair) is a very small distance. I remember in Scotland it was a ba' hair. ba' as in "ball". I've no idea which is smaller

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    Men and women are equal at that game. If there's a chance to give something a "funny" name it'll get one. The biggest difference is that if it's a man giving the name it's almost always something to do with sex.

    In Danish a "kussehår" (pussy hair) is a very small distance. I remember in Scotland it was a ba' hair. ba' as in "ball". I've no idea which is smaller
    Here it is an RCH, about 6300 ångströms.

    Bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by camscan View Post
    That reminds me of the story about the Harriers built by McDonnell.
    McDonnell wanted to use fan jets with afterburner but it was decided to use 1:1 bypass with re-heat.
    Don't know if you heard that story or not.
    The term is "bypawss", more accurately "bypaaawss". Of course St. Louisans are more sensitive to soft elongated a sounds because of the Ladue diphthong where "o" is pronounced more like hard "a", as in riding an arange harse on highway farty. I have never heard it more than 30 miles from here although there seems to be something similar becoming more common in England.



    We also have a problem with the term "Hoosier", which is a proud name the people in Indiana give themselves whereas in this area it denotes a lower form of life that infests Southern Missouri, Northern Arkansas and Western Kentucky. They are somewhat related to Hillbillys but considered to be lower on the evolutionary ladder. If you have seen the movie "Million Dollar Baby", Hillary Swank's family were hoosiers.

    Bill

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    CarbideBob,

    You didn't specifically mention it but, I suspect a significant element of the motive for flexibility is the desire to "make the sale". If some potential customer appears, it's in our best interest to try to converge.


    IME, when talking about metallic tubing, it's correct to refer to the OD. If pipe, the ID (trade size).

    I was in the Portland, OR branch of Paramount Supply the other day looking for 3/4" (OD) copper tubing and related compression fittings.

    The young (not that young) counter guy just couldn't figure it out. Me, "No, not 3/4 copper pipe (which is 7/8" OD), 3/4" OD copper tubing. Are you saying that you have no 3/4" OD copper tubing?" and so on.

    At that point a knowledgeable guy took mercy on me and stepped in. It turns out they refer to 3/4" OD as "5/8 NOMINAL" and the fellow I started with couldn't make the "connection". They had a shit ton of it.

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    I think people who are "unconcerned" with correct usage of language are implicitly saying they're willing to suffer the consequences of miscommunication.

    Not my choice.

    I don't know how to discuss precision in manufacturing without using a conventionl language.

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    Funny story about how things are called in industry. My first job out of school was in Alstom's boiler division. I recall during the training session we were all in, the instructor told us there was one word that could never be said in the industry and that is "explosion" he went on to explain that the proper term for such an incident is "puff."

    He went on to explain that puffs can occur in all different levels of severity and should we ever encounter one that we best never be caught using the word "explosion." For example it wasn't too uncommon for little puffs to from time to time occur in a coal pulverizers with the machine back online soon after. But then the instructor went on to show us some pretty cool pictures boilers with tubes all strung out like a mess of bad Spaghetti each noting that each one would still be considered a "puff."

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    One other thing here to add to this thread as far as I am concerned if you are in Germany and are in need of a good technical English dictionary for industrial terminology www.mcmaster.com may as well be the Mirriam Webster gold standard for terms and names of industrial parts and pieces. Not only do they maintain some of the best general knowledge base up there but they even offer simple to navigate English to picture translation if English isn't your first language.

    On another interesting side note near me is a company ASML I believe they are Dutch, one of the guys I work with used to be a draftsman there and he was saying the desire there was to be able to make parts anywhere in the world they needed to make them. As such they strictly banned the use of any written notes on drawings. All call outs were to be strictly in ISO standard GD&T type notations, so as to leave no room for anything getting lost in translation. I gather he said that such thing was very common all thru out Europe as there are so many different langues over there that notes would never work. Do notes get used a lot on German drawings, (prints or what ever the heck the technical term is for them)?


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