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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Dickman View Post
    I just tell walk-ins that I have a $10K minimum. That usually gets rid of them for good.
    I'm not sure if this is good advice.

    I've had walk ins turn into customers that pay more than that a month.

    Sent from my ASUS_X017DA using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    ....

    Given what little I know of Eastern Europe, I can guess that the "hardscrabble" aspects of daily life bred a certain way of functioning, and the delicate nuances of polite society weren't part of the upbringing.....
    Don't know much about their culture, but the Eastern Europeans I've met have been extremely polite. Of course they're expats, so perhaps not a representative sample.

    One of them has remarked that in heavily armed countries, people tend to be polite.

    Can't say that other countries have a monopoly on rude, selfish, and pushy. Seems to be more of that going on at US national level.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikolaiownz View Post
    Ok dirty Harry Unbelievably rude walk-in customer...what would you do?

    Sendt fra min EML-L29 med Tapatalk
    Uhm… I've been in a few one man shops where the owner openly carries.

    And I don't get nervous at all.

    Many of us Law Abiding Citizens "Concealed Carry" with a permit.

    You would call 911 maybe ?

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    Lots of reasons to prevent access to working areas or even the front office. At our place in both cases anybody can come out of the rain into a lobby area but they are observed and have to push a button to be let in beyond that point. Then there are physical/psychological barriers beyond that (tall counters, with further passage obscured by plants) and then a very circuitous route to the production area. Sounds obsessive perhaps, but all it takes is a few experiences like the OP to see the downside of letting somebody just walk into the shop. "Employees Only" won't exclude a certain personality type; such doors simply have to be locked.

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    The issue here is that many foreigners come from areas where aggressive bargaining is the norm. It's a fact of life for them, they bargain for everything.

    Keeping the door locked is about the only option.

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    Here is the ultimate solution: YouTube

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldwrench View Post
    Lots of reasons to prevent access to working areas or even the front office. At our place in both cases anybody can come out of the rain into a lobby area but they are observed and have to push a button to be let in beyond that point. Then there are physical/psychological barriers beyond that (tall counters, with further passage obscured by plants) and then a very circuitous route to the production area. Sounds obsessive perhaps, but all it takes is a few experiences like the OP to see the downside of letting somebody just walk into the shop. "Employees Only" won't exclude a certain personality type; such doors simply have to be locked.
    In one of the local shops: "Labor rate $90 per hour. If you watch, $120. If you help, $150." Most auto repair shops have signs that say insurance rules prohibit customers in work area.

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    Quote Originally Posted by West-7 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Dickman View Post
    I just tell walk-ins that I have a $10K minimum. That usually gets rid of them for good.
    I'm not sure if this is good advice.

    I've had walk ins turn into customers that pay more than that a month.

    Sent from my ASUS_X017DA using Tapatalk
    No question the public should not just walk into the shop area without being invited.

    You never really who will walk in your door next. How bad would this shop have felt if they stayed behind locked doors and the old guy went to the competitors shop across town because he couldn't talk to anyone?

    This came from the $45K table thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by bosleyjr View Post
    So a while back, an old guy in sweat pants (covered in flour - he'd been baking cookies with grandchildren) walks into one of the places that recreates vintage pieces. The type of place that buys logs that have been raised from the floor of Lake Michigan for 200 years after falling off a barge and sinking, so that they can have the proper wood. Anyway, the old guy had done some homework.
    "Could you recreate a 'Smith' chair?" [Smith is not right - I can't recall the actual name, but the chair is a 250 year old museum piece]
    "Yes sir, we could. That's a great chair design by the way"
    "Yeah, I like it too. How much would it cost?"
    "A chair like that, done properly, could be done for $5000"
    "Wow. A lot of money. Is it worth it?"
    "I can't answer that for you sir, but it IS a great chair and we can do a properly respectful job of recreation, and to do that $5000 is a fair price".
    "Hmmm. Ok, I'll take 16 of them".
    Turns out the old guy had a venture fund or some such and was a billionaire who really had an appreciation for fine furniture. He went on to let out about 2.5 million dollars (IIRC) in projects to the firm, to put in the house he'd just built (you can imagine the woodwork in the floors and walls of that house!).
    Quote Originally Posted by bosleyjr View Post
    I found the article online. I was pretty close to correct. The file has pictures of the furniture and house. Pretty awesome.

    https://irionlumber.s3.amazonaws.com...ssion-Ever.pdf

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    Hi All:
    So this has been really interesting to see all the different ways you all have responded to my tale, and I'm a bit saddened to see how many of you recommended and have adopted the tactic of restricting access to your shops.

    Here's the thing for me:
    I am upstairs on the second floor of a building whose downstairs tenants are also my landlords, so there is no casual access without the walk-in having to climb three flights of stairs first.
    As a result, I get almost NO walk-in traffic, but my landlords come in frequently for machine work, I have couriers in all the time, and I have my regular customers and my buddies who visit frequently, either for consultations, or to take me out for lunch or whatever.
    So for me to lock my doors and install an attack dog and all else that some of you have been forced to is just not realistic.

    With the exception of Dickweed, all are respectful of my time and are a pleasure to have around.

    What chapped my ass so severely was his arrogant insistence that I drop everything for him even though I'd never seen him before and his breathtaking effrontery in assuming he could just walk up to my equipment and use it without my permission or approval, and to accuse me of assholery when I refused.
    That's when and why I lost it.

    Now I like to pretend that I usually think before I act, and that episode just proved me wrong...I LOST it.
    I haven't been so furious in years and I really let go with both barrels.

    Now I'm thinking that I perhaps over reacted but I can still get up steam just thinking about it.
    I don't expect a big nasty retaliation, but the thought of encountering him on the street someday kind of takes the joy out of my new place a bit, and that is sad and to some degree my own fault.

    Had I not lost it, I probably could still have gotten rid of him, and even if I had just ground his shit for him I would have lost far less time than I did having to cool down enough to resume working.
    So my reaction, understandable as it may have been, was not the smart move, it was the emotional move, and like they always do, it cost me.

    So sadly, just locking the doors is not going to do it for me.
    I just need to learn to think and stay cool when something like this arises.
    In my defense, I've never had something quite so blatant happen to me before and hope never again.
    At least he knows he's not welcome here, and I doubt he'll be back.

    Cheers

    Marcus
    Implant Mechanix • Design & Innovation > HOME
    Vancouver Wire EDM -- Wire EDM Machining

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    The biggest reason for restricted access to me is the liability. It is very dangerous to be startled by someone while using machinery, and it is very dangerous to have people not trained in safety practices around the machines. Those two things are no less true regardless of how cool the people are. I am almost always available to answer the phone, and usually happy to see a friendly face come around the shop even if they are a stranger. Shop space wide open to the street though...no way.

    Hindsight is always 20/20 right? I think your reaction was forgivable considering that it sounds like you were already stressed about a deadline before this guy even entered the picture, and demanded your time for nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by implmex View Post
    Hi All:
    So this has been really interesting to see all the different ways you all have responded to my tale, and I'm a bit saddened to see how many of you recommended and have adopted the tactic of restricting access to your shops.

    Here's the thing for me:
    I am upstairs on the second floor of a building whose downstairs tenants are also my landlords, so there is no casual access without the walk-in having to climb three flights of stairs first.
    As a result, I get almost NO walk-in traffic, but my landlords come in frequently for machine work, I have couriers in all the time, and I have my regular customers and my buddies who visit frequently, either for consultations, or to take me out for lunch or whatever.
    So for me to lock my doors and install an attack dog and all else that some of you have been forced to is just not realistic.

    With the exception of Dickweed, all are respectful of my time and are a pleasure to have around.

    What chapped my ass so severely was his arrogant insistence that I drop everything for him even though I'd never seen him before and his breathtaking effrontery in assuming he could just walk up to my equipment and use it without my permission or approval, and to accuse me of assholery when I refused.
    That's when and why I lost it.

    Now I like to pretend that I usually think before I act, and that episode just proved me wrong...I LOST it.
    I haven't been so furious in years and I really let go with both barrels.

    Now I'm thinking that I perhaps over reacted but I can still get up steam just thinking about it.
    I don't expect a big nasty retaliation, but the thought of encountering him on the street someday kind of takes the joy out of my new place a bit, and that is sad and to some degree my own fault.

    Had I not lost it, I probably could still have gotten rid of him, and even if I had just ground his shit for him I would have lost far less time than I did having to cool down enough to resume working.
    So my reaction, understandable as it may have been, was not the smart move, it was the emotional move, and like they always do, it cost me.

    So sadly, just locking the doors is not going to do it for me.
    I just need to learn to think and stay cool when something like this arises.
    In my defense, I've never had something quite so blatant happen to me before and hope never again.
    At least he knows he's not welcome here, and I doubt he'll be back.

    Cheers

    Marcus
    Implant Mechanix • Design & Innovation > HOME
    Vancouver Wire EDM -- Wire EDM Machining


    Two weeks later news headline...

    Russian Nuclear Submarine Goes Super Critical off the Coast of Canada, - After local machinist refuses to grind washers...

    In a recent interview with Captain Nikolay Gerasimovich Kuznetsov " We sent one of our on-ship machinists ashore to see if we could get theses critical components ground before the reactor would over heat and go super critical. Unfortunately after experiencing the Chernobyl incidence Alexi's people skills are not what they used to be, so we did not want to cause alarm; I'm mean what yah gonna do ? "

    @Marcus don't worry man your instincts were spot on : did it ever occur to you that your "Guest" was deliberately behaving in that fashion ?

    I've had a local feud with a local farmer / neighbor of my Ranchito in NM. He stole a whole bunch of fence panels while I was away. I one day reversed my truck down the street so he couldn't get away (pinned in). Knocked on his window, rolled it down " He Bobby , did you happen to "Borrow" a whole bunch of my stock panels ??? " Sheepishly he said 'Yes"... But two weeks goes by and the f*cker hadn't given them back, so while he had his gate open to his fortress like property and he was out I made a visit to his wife. I explained that he stole a whole bunch of my panels to move his cows and didn't give them back nor did he ask permission and had not given them back even after being asked. She rationalized the f*ck out of the situation (a shadowy figure behind a dense mesh on her front door clearly afraid of her husband. Going " Ohhh Bobby knows that he shouldn't steal and on and on and on about strokes and all kind of excuses and medical difficulties... But I was very sharp and said he has 24 hours to bring those back or I go straight to the police.

    Sure enough he brought them back within 2 hours but the f*cker had stolen waaaay more panels than I realized .

    So when the self entitled (moron) rolls by on his tractor (on the shared street) "shopping" at my property with his eyes If i'm out there I'm with pitch fork in hand staring right at the fucker to say "I'm f*cking watching you". His family owns most of the land round here for nearly 100 years and I'm the 'New comer" of 15 years so he feels wrongly entitled to stuff and you can kinda tell he gets a "Buzz" or thrill off stealing other people's sh*t.

    You can't fix self entitled pricks...

    your response @Marcus is perfectly natural and you can probably expect that a lot of other people in the neighborhood also think "He" is short of a few screws as well, (not just a hand full of janky washers) ~ He's trying it on, you pushed back, that is fine. At least he knows that he can't just take whatever he wants.

    He violated a bunch of boundaries that he felt that he could easily traverse (for whatever reason) and you had to sharply push back. No means no.

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  17. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by implmex View Post
    I don't expect a big nasty retaliation, but the thought of encountering him on the street someday kind of takes the joy out of my new place a bit, and that is sad and to some degree my own fault.
    It'll be no retaliation, I can assure you. Moreover, if you meet him, there is a very good chance you'll become friends if you joke and pull his leg about the incident.

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    I have got the same rudeness from middle easterners, scrappers. One litterly sat out in my drive way in his car and honked his horn, until I came out of the shop, I have rarely been so mad in my life I should have had a heart attack in the driveway I was so angry. and it seems to definitely be cultural and usually the poorer regions of the countrys they are coming from.

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    Quote Originally Posted by idacal View Post
    I have got the same rudeness from middle easterners, scrappers. One litterly sat out in my drive way in his car and honked his horn, until I came out of the shop, I have rarely been so mad in my life I should have had a heart attack in the driveway I was so angry. and it seems to definitely be cultural and usually the poorer regions of the countrys they are coming from.
    The poor guy thought that the Americans like ice cream trucks. He only changed the music to avoid confusion.
    Last edited by MichaelP; 02-23-2020 at 10:38 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by idacal View Post
    I have got the same rudeness from middle easterners, scrappers. One litterly sat out in my drive way in his car and honked his horn, until I came out of the shop, I have rarely been so mad in my life I should have had a heart attack in the driveway I was so angry. and it seems to definitely be cultural and usually the poorer regions of the countrys they are coming from.
    I'm not that old but I can still remember as a kid in the 1970's that the 'Rag 'n bone " man used to go down our neighborhood street (on the edge of London) once a month, with a horse and cart ringing a bell shouting "Rag 'n Bone... Rag 'n Bone" - almost like bring out yer dead but he was mainly fishing for scrap also.

    So ME chap honking his horn in the drive way ? - Mild update perhaps of the Rag 'n Bone man ? (at least someone else was not attempting to enter the premises on the opposite side.).

    In the U.K. with barns / stable owners etc. we used to have to play ball with the Gypsies and travelers that decide to camp out for a few weeks (on common farm land and verges). Usually the conversation would come round to … "Ohhh that's a big barn of hay you have there … I bet that burns really easily I'd expect... " - You're kinda screwed until they move on so you do the best with what boundaries you have and not rock the boat too much - just make sure everything that can be stolen is stowed away.

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    I had the unusual experience of hanging around with a Bulgarian lady for 5+ years. It is a hard relationship to explain, not romantic, neither of us wanted it to be. We are about as different as two people can be, but we became very close friends, probably more so without the stresses that accompany a romance. She is a terrific person, intelligent, with two masters degrees, art and religion. When I had a triple bypass and discharged from the hospital in constant pain, with no place to go, she instantly said to come to her tiny apartment and took a week of vacation from her job to stay with me. No one ever had better post operative care. My more cynical friends said she was stringing me along for the cab service, but I got it all back in two weeks.

    Now the point of all this- especially when we first met, she would say things that most would consider rude. We might be driving somewhere and I would suggest we stop for lunch. She would respond,"No, no, we don't get lunch!" No one ever accused her of understating her views. At first it was disconcerting, but I just passed it off as her manner and let it go. She hadn't been in the US long when we met and as time went on, she improved. As she put it, "I had to learn the soft way to do things."

    When, for various reasons, aging parents and the like, she decided she needed to go back home, she really worried about her manners. She said that everyone in Bulgaria was rude and she was afraid she would revert. We usually regard Americans as brash and pushy, but she often commented about how polite we were. She is back there now, we talk on the phone every few days and I handle her US transactions, credit card payments and an occasional painting sale.

    Bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by implmex View Post
    Hi All:
    So this has been really interesting to see all the different ways you all have responded to my tale, and I'm a bit saddened to see how many of you recommended and have adopted the tactic of restricting access to your shops.

    Here's the thing for me:
    I am upstairs on the second floor of a building whose downstairs tenants are also my landlords, so there is no casual access without the walk-in having to climb three flights of stairs first.
    As a result, I get almost NO walk-in traffic, but my landlords come in frequently for machine work, I have couriers in all the time, and I have my regular customers and my buddies who visit frequently, either for consultations, or to take me out for lunch or whatever.
    So for me to lock my doors and install an attack dog and all else that some of you have been forced to is just not realistic..

    So sadly, just locking the doors is not going to do it for me.
    you simply MUST restrict access, for all the reasons articulated above. why not put a push button lock ( electronic ones are readily available and effective), and give all your trusted couriers, friends, and neighbors the code. make it simple for them to remember.

    if you are really worried about the dude, go find him and explain.

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    I read most of it thinking its just the norm for certain cultures...up to the point he went over to the grinder. I think in any culture that crosses the line. SORTA...

    So to culture I think it has something to do with being so densely packed that if you don't push yourself forward, you get nothing. To just being like one of many and not putting yourself forward keeps you back.

    The other aspect is something I find hard to relate to or at least did...that is socialist, communist mentality...Nothing in yours, nothing is mine...its just there.
    Years back in dads old shop he had a kid working for him from one of the Russian overtaken States/countries. Dad found out he was living in his van, felt bad and allowed him to stay in an area of the shop till he could save up for an apartment, picked up a cot, brought in bedding for him and a small fridge. Dad knew he was doing the right thing and really didn't want to be thanked and he wasn't. I got to speaking with him one evening and brought up that he never seemed appreciative to my father for letting him stay in the place. The jist of what he told me was where he was from, nothing was really anybodies, space to live was provided, tooling provided, food provided...you worked harder you got the same as the guy who didn't. While he knew his van was his he didn't grasp the shop and our tools were ours...ours in personally ours and we leased the space and that was ours, not his too. Odd way of thinking.
    Not saying the guy was right to try and use your equipment...just giving a possible rationale...aside from just being an A hole.


    Would I handle it differently...yes maybe up to the point he tried to use my machinery.
    First, a small job I just say we have a $150 minimum and 2 weeks leadtime.

    That puts the ball back in their hands and their next move is a major factor on how things go...or don't.
    If I get, I can live with the price but need it sooner...well then we might want to take a closer look. Maybe I can squeeze it in, stay later tonight...or maybe he can wait till tomorrow or...I offer another place that may be able to handle the job.

    Some say charge more, but you have to do it now...again maybe we have some wiggle room to make this work for both of us.

    Most hear the number, and leave. Others say its only a few minute job...
    Which I answer - Sorry, its the policy here.

    People who have asked to use the equipment...its a firm NO. Not because I'm a prick...but my insurance company would drop me in a seconds if they found out and they come around too often.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SIM View Post
    I read most of it thinking its just the norm for certain cultures...up to the point he went over to the grinder. I think in any culture that crosses the line. SORTA...

    So to culture I think it has something to do with being so densely packed that if you don't push yourself forward, you get nothing. To just being like one of many and not putting yourself forward keeps you back.

    The other aspect is something I find hard to relate to or at least did...that is socialist, communist mentality...Nothing in yours, nothing is mine...its just there.
    Years back in dads old shop he had a kid working for him from one of the Russian overtaken States/countries. Dad found out he was living in his van, felt bad and allowed him to stay in an area of the shop till he could save up for an apartment, picked up a cot, brought in bedding for him and a small fridge. Dad knew he was doing the right thing and really didn't want to be thanked and he wasn't. I got to speaking with him one evening and brought up that he never seemed appreciative to my father for letting him stay in the place. The jist of what he told me was where he was from, nothing was really anybodies, space to live was provided, tooling provided, food provided...you worked harder you got the same as the guy who didn't. While he knew his van was his he didn't grasp the shop and our tools were ours...ours in personally ours and we leased the space and that was ours, not his too. Odd way of thinking.
    Not saying the guy was right to try and use your equipment...just giving a possible rationale...aside from just being an A hole.


    Would I handle it differently...yes maybe up to the point he tried to use my machinery.
    First, a small job I just say we have a $150 minimum and 2 weeks leadtime.

    That puts the ball back in their hands and their next move is a major factor on how things go...or don't.
    If I get, I can live with the price but need it sooner...well then we might want to take a closer look. Maybe I can squeeze it in, stay later tonight...or maybe he can wait till tomorrow or...I offer another place that may be able to handle the job.

    Some say charge more, but you have to do it now...again maybe we have some wiggle room to make this work for both of us.

    Most hear the number, and leave. Others say its only a few minute job...
    Which I answer - Sorry, its the policy here.

    People who have asked to use the equipment...its a firm NO. Not because I'm a prick...but my insurance company would drop me in a seconds if they found out and they come around too often.
    There are only a couple of people I will let use my machines. That attitude is completely justified for a professional depending on them for his living.

    My friend Galina said that when Communism in Bulgaria collapsed, the government owned all the machinery and had to divest itself of it. Since under Communism no one could amass wealth, no one there could buy it. Buyers from other countries bought it and shipped it to places where they could sell it at a profit, in effect parting out Bulgarian industry. Her mother worked in a factory that made high quality textiles, employing around 5,000 people. Now it is about 500 in what is left. She says "Engineers hunt through dumpsters." There is still a little industry left and on two occasions she has helped PMers get things like manuals. One was for a forklift. First I had to explain what a forklift was to an artist, but she did well.

    They still do great hand work. Google "Troyan pottery". Galina sent me a set for my sister's Christmas present.

    Bill

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    Some people have absolutely no concept of personal boundaries. I see it all the time here in Quebec where the older generation tended towards being very familiar with strangers. When I was younger I'd sometimes have uninvited people or acquaintances come up our long wooded lot driveway for a visit. Was the culture here back then.

    And this matter gets taken to another level in Church like you wouldn't believe. I no longer attend services and just do my own thing, too introverted and value my privacy highly.

    At work we've had people from certain kinds of "organizations" walk in looking to have "tooling" made up. I get creative and get them out of here quickly as once they have you under their thumb there's no going back..

    Interesting post Markus !
    Last edited by Laurentian; 02-24-2020 at 06:37 PM.


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