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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by kustomizer View Post
    There is no such thing as a bad job,
    Sure there is!
    Just screw up on the quote and they're all bad from the word GO!

    And that actually IS an advise.
    When you start out hating the job(part), you'll hate it all the way through the process.
    You'll hate it the next time it comes around even if you've fixed the process.
    After a while you'll start hating jobs(parts) that even resembles the jobs(parts) that you already hate.

    Recognize that you hate these jobs, figure out the reasons why you hate them, resolve the reasons, learn to un-hate these jobs and they just might become one of the most profitable ones you do!

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    Quote Originally Posted by vanguard machine View Post
    some great stuff here..
    i'll add:
    any customer that gives you the old "give me a good deal now because i have tons of work to come/i'll tell all my friends" is completely full of shit.
    You're quite right and as a customer of shops for prototyping I'd say it's actually the opposite. If you find a place than can turn your porotype jobs around quickly you try to keep it on the DL so the guy doesn't get overwhelmed and no longer be able to turn stuff around quickly. Which I have seen happen on a couple of occasions.

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    "any customer that gives you the old "give me a good deal now because i have tons of work to come/i'll tell all my friends" is completely full of shit."

    These kind of generalizations don't always apply. I had two long term (20+ year) customers that approached me this way. One was strangest f**ker you could imagine. He had me over to his house mid-day for an interview and signing of bioengineering related NDA's. I'd worked at the university in bioengineering after graduation and knew of his success and reputation in the field so we were a good match. After the NDA signing he wanted me to come down to the basement to see his man cave and watch the Sound of Music with his custom sound system (I was thinking he was going to make moves on me, but he didn't). When I think back on that it was really weird.... There was lots of high dollar work, all time and material. I got my first and only TV interview through him when our US rep had a ceremonial turning over of a check for an NIH grant to us.

    Some times you just have to use common sense and your best judgement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeymourDumore View Post
    Sure there is!
    Just screw up on the quote and they're all bad from the word GO!

    And that actually IS an advise.
    When you start out hating the job(part), you'll hate it all the way through the process.
    You'll hate it the next time it comes around even if you've fixed the process.
    After a while you'll start hating jobs(parts) that even resembles the jobs(parts) that you already hate.

    Recognize that you hate these jobs, figure out the reasons why you hate them, resolve the reasons, learn to un-hate these jobs and they just might become one of the most profitable ones you do!
    Like I said, there are a lot of bad ways of doing it, you don't "have" to do any of them and as you illuded to in the end, everything is easy once you know how, sometimes that part requires some thought.

    Whose quote was it " good judgment comes from experiance, experiance comes from poor judgment" or something like that?

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    tip. dont deal with customers that have no clue what they want and never give specs even when asked. was asked the hole tolerance, was told as per drawing with a 0.312" hole. no idea if it was a through hole or what positioning accuracy they needed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeymourDumore View Post
    Sure there is!
    Just screw up on the quote and they're all bad from the word GO!

    ...
    But that's a bad quote, not necessarily a bad job.

    George B.

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  9. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Georgineer View Post
    But that's a bad quote, not necessarily a bad job.

    George B.

    You must be looking at things differently than I.
    To me, a screwup on the quote is no different than screwing up the process.
    At the end of the day, I take the blame but the job gets the hate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    8-

    Be cautious of a single lucrative client.
    Diversify so you have options if the one or a couple of key clients shifts their needs away from your shop.
    Trboat,
    You clearly haven't "locked in" to a BLUE CHIP. You only need one, a multi billion dollar company will be more than any shop can handle. If you can handle more, you will only have 3.

    Doing business with US industrials is no joking matter, the big guys buy big and demand results.

    Be careful of what you ask for, there is a shitload of work coming, don't be greedy.

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    ToolCat’s Top 5:

    1.) Know how to manage money (most people don’t), learn basic business accounting

    2.) Don’t quote too cheap (a lot of shops do)

    3.) Only ship quality parts out the door, even if it takes ten times as long

    4.) The most successful shops are usually not owned by machinists, but businessmen (people who know how to sell, negotiate, hire-fire without emotion, manage people and money)

    5.) Always do your homework, be prepared when you go in every morning, have a plan for each day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cnctoolcat View Post
    ToolCat’s Top 5:

    1.) Know how to manage money (most people don’t), learn basic business accounting

    2.) Don’t quote too cheap (a lot of shops do)

    3.) Only ship quality parts out the door, even if it takes ten times as long

    4.) The most successful shops are usually not owned by machinists, but businessmen (people who know how to sell, negotiate, hire-fire without emotion, manage people and money)

    5.) Always do your homework, be prepared when you go in every morning, have a plan for each day.
    all of these.. but especially #5


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    My advice is learn to love the customers you hate most. It is an easy principle . Next time double the price with a smile . If that does not drive them away double again . This ether drives them away or makes you happy to see them because they are paying your daughters college bills .
    This can be tempered in 15 to 20 percent increases if the hatred runs a little less deep If you think about this it is a mirror on other side of the coin that you may discount you charges to some one you really like or respect may mentor or give a leg up because you like the attitude or dream
    Kind of what I call the karma bank what goes around comes around
    pay forward when you can
    we bring are own karma to the game
    Last edited by Ken hosford; 04-03-2021 at 12:51 PM. Reason: spelling

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    One piece of advice that I don't recall anybody mentioning is are you putting enough money away to retire and maintain your current lifestyle?

    I owned a commercial building where my first business (non machining) was located. I needed more space to increase the income from that business to pay for my two kids college. More space was not an option so I decided machining would bring in more dollars per square foot so sold the first business. Machining plus wife's 16 hour/week job covered 2 kids through college. Then we concentrated on retirement.

    From what I've read a good portion of the population has practically nothing put away for retirement. And Social Security is just not going to do it. You should be able to find online charts to estimate how much you'll need for a comfortable retirement. It may surprise you how much retirement costs.

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  17. #53
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    FOR NEW LOOKING TO START:

    1. Have a well paying existing job. Start your biz why you still have solid income comming in.
    2. Learn what a P & L is and what/how to make and read them.
    3. Seek experience. Find an existing successful business owner to talk with as a mentor. (ANY biz not just what your about to start.) - Contact local SBA office and look for a SCORE.org chapter near you. ALL FREE support.
    4. Set goals so you have a target for what you really want.
    5. WORK. Put in the WORK. Edison Quote: Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work


    Existing established business:

    1. Know how to read and understand P&L, Cash Flow Statement and balance sheet.
    2. Hire an experienced business coach. (A good one does not TELL you what todo, they truly coach you to make the desisions best for your biz. Just like any hiring, fire them if they are not good.)
    3. Seek business development that helps you interact with other business owners. Such as Entrepreneurs Orginisatin, or EO. https://hub.eonetwork.org/, not free but the ROI is huge. For the free one and little known, look for an SBA Emerging Leaders class near you. If you can get in, its like a $50k MBA for free. (just comity 100%, you get out what you put in) SBA’s Emerging Leaders Initiative to Help Growing Entrepreneurs Opens for 2021 Recruitment **(see below)
    4. Fire yourself. Remove you from being a requirement for day to day activities. This will allow you to do more of what you enjoy. Designing new things, building new customers, or even not working so much.
    5. Plan for your retirement. Know ANY business retirement plans that is “I will sell my business” is the #1 fail for small biz owners. Very few with $$ want to “buy a job”, so unless your business runs w/o you and is very profitable its not going to sell. This is where owners fall into the I have to sell and let it go for pennies on the $, or it just never sells. Look at #4. Build your biz to run w/o you to the point your not going in but still get a paycheck. This equals two things. You don’t have to sell and you have passive regular income. The upside is you now actually have a marketable biz as buyers with $$ see it as a good buy since its profitable. And since you don’t have to sell, you can push for a higher sales price.


    My suggestions are based on experience.
    ** I started my biz in 2000 with $300 in my garage. I worked 5yrs still working my corporate gig, putting in 40hrs in the office and 50hrs in my shop. In 2005 I went full time on my own. I basically “survived” for the next 9yrs, never really making any $ but kept alive. In Feb 2014 with minimal growth/profit I got into the SBA Emerging Leaders class. I graduated that class that Dec. In one yr my gross sales were basically the same, but my NET PROFIT was 250%. I was making $ for the first time. I also hired my existing business coach in 2015, and in 2017 joined EO or Entrepreneurs Association. Since 2017 my gross sales are up 70%, net profit 30% (EO is a huge part of this). I now can provide full medical benefits, 401k, min 2 weeks paid time off and the level of staff I can hire is now is like nothing before. I actually have a 401k for me and a full time General Manager that oversees staff, development and planning. My roll now is to build the business, if I am not there it still functions fine.

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  19. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    8-

    Be cautious of a single lucrative client.
    Diversify so you have options if the one or a couple of key clients shifts their needs away from your shop.
    Trboats strategy is severely flawed.

    There is nothing wrong with having a single lucrative client. Most importantly, that client must be a "BlueChip" industrial. If you have one, a second or third is very likely to materialize.

    The most successful manufacturing business have 1 customer. Most shops, even large business will not be able to accommodate more than 2 Blue Chips.

    What I'm saying here is; quit working for little business that offer you little jobs. You need to get to the big guys immediately, if you can't achieve this... your done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by otrlt View Post
    Trboats strategy is severely flawed.

    There is nothing wrong with having a single lucrative client. Most importantly, that client must be a "BlueChip" industrial. If you have one, a second or third is very likely to materialize.

    The most successful manufacturing business have 1 customer. Most shops, even large business will not be able to accommodate more than 2 Blue Chips.

    What I'm saying here is; quit working for little business that offer you little jobs. You need to get to the big guys immediately, if you can't achieve this... your done.
    I am sure all of General Motors suppliers in 2009 would agree with you 100%, please detect sarcasm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    I am sure all of General Motors suppliers in 2009 would agree with you 100%, please detect sarcasm.
    Hello Dualkit,
    US car/truck production has never been higher. Are all of those 2009 suppliers out of business?

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    Quote Originally Posted by helocat View Post
    FOR NEW LOOKING TO START:

    1. Have a well paying existing job. Start your biz why you still have solid income comming in.
    2. Learn what a P & L is and what/how to make and read them.
    3. Seek experience. Find an existing successful business owner to talk with as a mentor. (ANY biz not just what your about to start.) - Contact local SBA office and look for a SCORE.org chapter near you. ALL FREE support.
    4. Set goals so you have a target for what you really want.
    5. WORK. Put in the WORK. Edison Quote: Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work


    Existing established business:

    1. Know how to read and understand P&L, Cash Flow Statement and balance sheet.
    2. Hire an experienced business coach. (A good one does not TELL you what todo, they truly coach you to make the desisions best for your biz. Just like any hiring, fire them if they are not good.)
    3. Seek business development that helps you interact with other business owners. Such as Entrepreneurs Orginisatin, or EO. https://hub.eonetwork.org/, not free but the ROI is huge. For the free one and little known, look for an SBA Emerging Leaders class near you. If you can get in, its like a $50k MBA for free. (just comity 100%, you get out what you put in) SBA’s Emerging Leaders Initiative to Help Growing Entrepreneurs Opens for 2021 Recruitment **(see below)
    4. Fire yourself. Remove you from being a requirement for day to day activities. This will allow you to do more of what you enjoy. Designing new things, building new customers, or even not working so much.
    5. Plan for your retirement. Know ANY business retirement plans that is “I will sell my business” is the #1 fail for small biz owners. Very few with $$ want to “buy a job”, so unless your business runs w/o you and is very profitable its not going to sell. This is where owners fall into the I have to sell and let it go for pennies on the $, or it just never sells. Look at #4. Build your biz to run w/o you to the point your not going in but still get a paycheck. This equals two things. You don’t have to sell and you have passive regular income. The upside is you now actually have a marketable biz as buyers with $$ see it as a good buy since its profitable. And since you don’t have to sell, you can push for a higher sales price.


    My suggestions are based on experience.
    ** I started my biz in 2000 with $300 in my garage. I worked 5yrs still working my corporate gig, putting in 40hrs in the office and 50hrs in my shop. In 2005 I went full time on my own. I basically “survived” for the next 9yrs, never really making any $ but kept alive. In Feb 2014 with minimal growth/profit I got into the SBA Emerging Leaders class. I graduated that class that Dec. In one yr my gross sales were basically the same, but my NET PROFIT was 250%. I was making $ for the first time. I also hired my existing business coach in 2015, and in 2017 joined EO or Entrepreneurs Association. Since 2017 my gross sales are up 70%, net profit 30% (EO is a huge part of this). I now can provide full medical benefits, 401k, min 2 weeks paid time off and the level of staff I can hire is now is like nothing before. I actually have a 401k for me and a full time General Manager that oversees staff, development and planning. My roll now is to build the business, if I am not there it still functions fine.
    Man that is a lot of hours in a week. Very hard work. How did you manage were you doing this in younger days?

  23. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by otrlt View Post
    Hello Dualkit,
    US car/truck production has never been higher. Are all of those 2009 suppliers out of business?
    I know a lot of people that USED to work for Delphi came over to my company around 2010. So while the company may exist, it's likely a shell of its former self.

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    Quote Originally Posted by otrlt View Post
    Hello Dualkit,
    US car/truck production has never been higher. Are all of those 2009 suppliers out of business?
    A good many of them went under and quite a few members on this board were hit. The "all eggs in one basket strategy" is highly risky, I personally got sucked into it and took a big hit. I had over twenty customers, but they all did the same thing, built limousines, I might as well had one customer. The reason I got sucked into it is I developed my own products that were easier to install, more durable, while selling for the same price as the competition. Sales started climbing by the month, I had to keep adding capacity. Previously it was an industry that was very over reactive to the economy and with a booming economy it was going bonkers.

    I got on the sinking ship late enough that the boom did not make up for the bust. All 23 customers I had eventually went out of business, most by 2009, a couple hung on for a while converting base models to cop cars and emergency vehicles.

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  26. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trueturning View Post
    Man that is a lot of hours in a week. Very hard work. How did you manage were you doing this in younger days?
    90 hours isn't that bad as long as there isn't a long commute to the day job. He also said "office" which meant he wasn't standing that whole 90 hours. I know when I started out 90 hours was a short week.


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