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  1. #1
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    Default Used Machine discounts

    Hi everyone. Im in the process of purchasing my first industrial level machine and had some questions about the pricing and how best to negotiate. I've been looking at the listings on used machine resellers and ebay but I would like to know more info about their pricing. How much discount should you ask for and how to best go about getting a better price. The asking price for the machine I've been looking into is 60k and it's a live tool turning center.

    Any and all info is appreciated

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    I think you are asking a question that is pretty hard to answer. There are a huge amount of variables involved. Of course with anything first order of business is determining fair market value of the item you are seeking. Searching completed sales on Ebay is a place to look, but unfortunately no two used machines are alike. When I was looking for a used CNC lathe ages ago I found asking prices for similar items can vary greatly by region. You also have some sellers who like turning over inventory at modest profits and others that will sit on something forever trying to get a king's ransom. Also be wary of people listing machines that they neither posses or even have an agreement to sell on consignment.

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    In general I don't hesitate to low ball. We're all in this to make money and it's nothing personal. Likewise when I want to sell something I price it higher than my bottom dollar, but the purchaser feels good he beat me up. Everyone walks away happy.

    Percentage of discount varies a lot on the demand of said item. Something like what you want might only have %10 wiggle room, while a specialty machine could go for pennies on the dollar if there isn't someone who truly needs it as a purchaser.

    At the end of the day the worst the seller can say is no and you return with a higher offer. Sometimes a seller will get personally offended over your offer. Fuck those people I don't want to give them my money anyway.

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    First thing to remember if your talking to a used machinery dealer if his mouth is moving he’s lying. And he’s a crook. He will sell you scrap at top dollar then brag how he screwed you. Fuck em all.

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    Thanks everyone for the answers. With regards to hopefully avoiding getting ripped off I was going to get the machine inspected before finalizing the deal. Also does anyone have experience dealing with Machine Station.

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    If a dealer owns the machine they did not pay shit for it.

    If you can buy from the shop using it you have a much better chance of getting a deal and not buying a pile of shit.

    I would never buy a machine without inspecting in person.

    I have sold machines where the buyers flew techs out to inspect. Both times the techs were pretty inept. The handful of good techs I know would be cost prohibitive to fly anywhere for a few days.

    As a buyer, you can learn more about the machine by seeing where it's at and talking to the guys that ran and maintained it then trying to pick the machine apart.

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    Agree with Garwood 100% best way to buy a machine is from the shop that has owned it for years. Second best way is at a real no reserve auction where the shop went out of business and everything has to be sold to clean up an estate / bankruptcy / divorce / everything has been seized by law enforcement.

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    One thing to be really be careful of is a machine that can't be shown running.

    Watch out for sellers who say "it was running fine when we disconnected power".

    Even if you do see a machine running, that's no guarantee it'll run when moved to your shop. You may need a tech to get it running, moving can be hard on machines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    Even if you do see a machine running, that's no guarantee it'll run when moved to your shop. You may need a tech to get it running, moving can be hard on machines.
    A grand total of 12 CNC machine moves produced 3 DOA's for me and I know for a fact they were running when removed from service.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SIP6A View Post
    First thing to remember if your talking to a used machinery dealer if his mouth is moving he’s lying. And he’s a crook. He will sell you scrap at top dollar then brag how he screwed you. Fuck em all.
    Really?

    How is it then, that "we'll remember, come November" got you the same thing behind the (formerly) "Resolute Desk" ... and he cannot EVEN move his mouth well enough to tell his own lies nor the ones on his teleprompter, either one, even with more sleep-time than a wore-out hound dawg?

    FAILED to remember that there was an actual JOB associated with that desk, and s**ty as it may be, somebody has to actually DO it?

    Thought so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AJ H View Post
    In general I don't hesitate to low ball. We're all in this to make money and it's nothing personal. Likewise when I want to sell something I price it higher than my bottom dollar, but the purchaser feels good he beat me up. Everyone walks away happy.

    Percentage of discount varies a lot on the demand of said item. Something like what you want might only have %10 wiggle room, while a specialty machine could go for pennies on the dollar if there isn't someone who truly needs it as a purchaser.

    At the end of the day the worst the seller can say is no and you return with a higher offer. Sometimes a seller will get personally offended over your offer. Fuck those people I don't want to give them my money anyway.
    Exactly, and demand can also depend on machine size. A small VMC will fit in a garage, so more buyers for that machine. A large HMC takes up alot of real estate, so buyer market is alot smaller. We bought a Mazak FH-6000 for half of what I see them listed for. Threw a low ball offer, then they accepted and it was awe shit they took it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AJ H View Post
    In general I don't hesitate to low ball. We're all in this to make money and it's nothing personal. Likewise when I want to sell something I price it higher than my bottom dollar, but the purchaser feels good he beat me up. Everyone walks away happy.

    Percentage of discount varies a lot on the demand of said item. Something like what you want might only have %10 wiggle room, while a specialty machine could go for pennies on the dollar if there isn't someone who truly needs it as a purchaser.

    At the end of the day the worst the seller can say is no and you return with a higher offer. Sometimes a seller will get personally offended over your offer. Fuck those people I don't want to give them my money anyway.
    Low Ball, but in the ballpark for that type machine is OK but if I get a ridiculous Low Ball offer I'm hanging up. I don't want to waste my time with someone who isn't serious or is just being a jerk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by josefodunga View Post
    Thanks everyone for the answers. With regards to hopefully avoiding getting ripped off I was going to get the machine inspected before finalizing the deal. Also does anyone have experience dealing with Machine Station.
    No, and I never will. Reason? They paint their machines before listing them!
    Why is this bad? Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard the phrase "whore in a new dress"?
    They are relying 100% on curb appeal. To sell you a clapped out POS.
    Last edited by wheelieking71; 03-04-2021 at 04:41 PM.

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    The places I purchase from dont paint unless they are requested to. I always like getting videos. Videos will tell you A LOT about the place you are buying from. If they do close ups and show every single thing, that seems like a decent place. If the video is shot from 8 feet away, awkward angles, and dont really show much, it's time to move on.

    Also if you go to inspect equipment, and the people wont leave you alone while your looking around, move on. They are probably trying to catch the problem areas before you get to them. Then push you away from the area.

    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Really?

    How is it then, that "we'll remember, come November" got you the same thing behind the (formerly) "Resolute Desk" ... and he cannot EVEN move his mouth well enough to tell his own lies nor the ones on his teleprompter, either one, even with more sleep-time than a wore-out hound dawg?

    FAILED to remember that there was an actual JOB associated with that desk, and s**ty as it may be, somebody has to actually DO it?

    Thought so.
    Well the loud mouth at the end of the bar chimes in.

    You would think that someone that has claimed many times to have attended no less than 13 colleges and universities yet has never done anything could write one intelligible sentence that is about the subject under discussion.

    All I'm getting are snorts and whistles.

    Whatever happened to putting me on ignore?

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    Quote Originally Posted by chad883 View Post
    Exactly, and demand can also depend on machine size. A small VMC will fit in a garage, so more buyers for that machine. A large HMC takes up alot of real estate, so buyer market is alot smaller. We bought a Mazak FH-6000 for half of what I see them listed for. Threw a low ball offer, then they accepted and it was awe shit they took it.
    I have been there too.

    Few years ago I showed interest in a machine just to get a tour of a big OEM's plant. Hit it off with the plant manager, had a great time. I politely made an ultra low ball offer and they accepted on the spot. That turned into me buying 7 machines and counting from them. Turns out they hate machine dealers just as much as I do.

    Most places will take a cash in hand offer that's easy for them

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Septic tanks have to be PUMPED ever' now and then is what happened.

    Well the loud mouth at the end of the bar chimes in.

    You would think that someone that has claimed many times to have attended no less than 13 colleges and universities yet has never done anything could write one intelligible sentence that is about the subject under discussion.

    All I'm getting are snorts and whistles.

    Whatever happened to putting me on ignore?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SIP6A View Post
    Well the loud mouth at the end of the bar chimes in.

    You would think that someone that has claimed many times to have attended no less than 13 colleges and universities yet has never done anything could write one intelligible sentence that is about the subject under discussion.

    All I'm getting are snorts and whistles.

    Whatever happened to putting me on ignore?
    You could try putting *him* on ignore. Saves a lot of bandwidth.

    Failing that, please just don't quote all (or preferably any) of his post in your reply so those of us who do have him on ignore don't see it.

    Just a polite request. Let the senile old man fester quietly at the end of the bar.

    PDW

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    Quote Originally Posted by PDW View Post
    You could try putting *him* on ignore. Saves a lot of bandwidth.

    Failing that, please just don't quote all (or preferably any) of his post in your reply so those of us who do have him on ignore don't see it.

    Just a polite request. Let the senile old man fester quietly at the end of the bar.

    PDW
    Well you seem like a nice guy & can write in standard english that makes sense so I will do that for you.

    All The Best
    Todd

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garwood View Post
    I have been there too.

    Few years ago I showed interest in a machine just to get a tour of a big OEM's plant. Hit it off with the plant manager, had a great time. I politely made an ultra low ball offer and they accepted on the spot. That turned into me buying 7 machines and counting from them. Turns out they hate machine dealers just as much as I do.

    Most places will take a cash in hand offer that's easy for them
    Most outfits of any size have amortized the machinery of production YEARS before they actually dispose of it. Most sales have to reflect a gain from scrap on their books.

    Being safely rid of the goods frees-up fully-burdened space and reduces risk the machine generates by its mere presence, and the cost of covering it, even if idle.
    More especially if idle, no longer generating a favourable contribution margin.

    There is value in cleaning all of that up, opening options, reducing time to action a future choice.

    The bigger and more wisely managed the corp, the more interested they are in keeping their options open and flexible, their books lean, mean, and clean, the risk of harm to staff, damage to a facility, or interference with ongoing operations to a minimum .... than they are in that modest gain on the sale.

    Your success is based on trust earned from a safe, time-predictable, and trouble-free track-record. What you paid isn't just low-ball. It had the lowest priority.

    That's just how it works where and when management have their heads on right-way round.

    Trained for it, even.

    "RTFM".



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