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vendor supplied wrong material and won't compensate for lost time, now what?

brianweldor

Cast Iron
Joined
Nov 1, 2007
Location
WV
I had a steel supplier sell me what I thought was 600 lbs of A588 steel plate, sheared to size. I welded up my parts and shipped them to my customer, and that very same day the vendor called and said they sent me A36 instead. They sent a truck down the next day with the proper material, but then I had to start the job over. I had about a week of labor in the parts that I shipped, and I told the vendor the amount of money I was expecting to be compensated for since I basically did the job twice. They informed me that the payment was approved and it was sitting on the owner's desk and awaiting his signature.
It's been over three months and all I get from the vendor is " he hasn't gotten to it yet." Does anyone have advice on how to take this matter to small claims court and get my money?
 
Sounds like they're not gonna pay.

I always verify that incoming material is what was ordered.

All incoming comes with certs, not that those can't get screwed up too.

What did the packing slip say? You might have a solid case, if the packing slip or material certs provided say A588 material.
 
Does anyone have advice on how to take this matter to small claims court and get my money?

That's exactly correct. There's a ton of info on small claims online, make sure to read the stuff pertinent to your state. And the clerk at the county superior court should be helpful. In some places in California the local law college has students give advice, as work experience.

The tricky part is after a judgement. Collecting is harder than getting a judgement. Talk to someone experienced about an "order of examination" which is how you find out where your debtor has his money hidden. That can be kinda fun if you are mean. The best one is during an order of examination, to ask "How much money do you have in your pockets ? Good, hand it over. Now."

At least in California, but those kinds of things tend to be fairly uniform.
 
In most states an outside vendor is only legally liable for the cost of material if they scrap parts that only need their operation to be finished. You could have $5 each of aluminum and $495 of labor in parts ruined by a platter. Legally the platter owes $5, not $500. They usually only pay more to keep your business and their reputation. I think that law could also apply here. Also small claims court judges aren't known for their knowledge of metallurgy and machining and won't award money in areas where they don't have knowledge without a high level of prior cases where a like situation produced an award.

I would not waste my time and money with legal proceedings. If retaining your future business is not important to them you could mention there are 25,000 (PM members) prospective metal buyers that could find out how unhappy you are if this isn't resolved to your satisfaction. Also telling your story isn't slander if you tell the truth. Sick and tired of people worried about being sued for slander and losing when things like this are brought up.
 
I had a steel supplier sell me what I thought was 600 lbs of A588 steel plate, sheared to size. I welded up my parts and shipped them to my customer, and that very same day the vendor called and said they sent me A36 instead. They sent a truck down the next day with the proper material, but then I had to start the job over. I had about a week of labor in the parts that I shipped, and I told the vendor the amount of money I was expecting to be compensated for since I basically did the job twice. They informed me that the payment was approved and it was sitting on the owner's desk and awaiting his signature.
It's been over three months and all I get from the vendor is " he hasn't gotten to it yet." Does anyone have advice on how to take this matter to small claims court and get my money?

.
in many countries you can get a metal certifications sheet from vendor saying what material is signed by metal vendor. i have paid extra to have a official stamped metal certifications sheet. i have paid extra to have metal labeled even stamped as to its alloy type
.
still wont fix some minimum wage employee making a mistake. thats why some metal is labeled what it is from the steel mill.
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in theory many places have testing equipment to certify the metal before they use it. for example if part suppose to be hss m2 tool steel, they test it to make sure it aint 1018 cold rolled steel which obviously cannot be heat treated the same
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same as if you want 316 SS you want to make sure it aint 304 SS and have it tested before making parts
 
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in many countries you can get a metal certifications sheet from vendor saying what material is signed by metal vendor. i have paid extra to have a official stamped metal certifications sheet. i have paid extra to have metal labeled even stamped as to its alloy type
.
still wont fix some minimum wage employee making a mistake. thats why some metal is labeled what it is from the steel mill.
.
in theory many places have testing equipment to certify the metal before they use it. for example if part suppose to be hss m2 tool steel, they test it to make sure it aint 1018 cold rolled steel which obviously cannot be heat treated the same
.
same as if you want 316 SS you want to make sure it aint 304 SS and have it tested before making parts

What is the point of posting this? As usual your posts give no helpful suggestions to the OP's problems, at least you didn't tell us how much money you make.
 
I

I would not waste my time and money with legal proceedings. If retaining your future business is not important to them you could mention there are 25,000 (PM members) prospective metal buyers that could find out how unhappy you are if this isn't resolved to your satisfaction. Also telling your story isn't slander if you tell the truth. Sick and tired of people worried about being sued for slander and losing when things like this are brought up.

^^^^Yup.
IIRC the supreme court decided a case that it's not libelous nor slanderous on the internet.
If someone else can post a linky, it would be appreciated.
 
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my point is is say making aircraft parts out of high strength alloy. usually good practice to test material first is correct alloy before making aircraft parts going in a aircraft
.
most bigger companies test metal they buy. same as a casting user might ultrasound test a casting for defects before making parts out of it
.
i have seen portable xray tester used to test steel alloys after a regular steel pipe elbow was blowing up bigger like a balloon on a high pressure steam pipe and worry was it would blow out and cause injury. it was suppose to be a high strength steel alloy pipe elbow.
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confirming metal alloy before making parts is a reasonable expectation of somebody who is buying the machined parts. if you order a M2 HSS alloy steel part 65C rockwell obviously if it is just 1018 steel it will not heat treat. critical parts somebody in addition to metal vendor is responsible for confirming correct metal alloys and heat treatment usually
.
there is such a thing as counterfeit metals. that is metal that is not what it is suppose to be or labeled as. who labeled it incorrectly hard to tell and why. sometimes it is just a mistake from somebody in the warehouse
 
my point is is say making aircraft parts out of high strength alloy. usually good practice to test material first is correct alloy before making aircraft parts going in a aircraft
.
most bigger companies test metal they buy. same as a casting user might ultrasound test a casting for defects before making parts out of it
.
i have seen portable xray tester used to test steel alloys after a regular steel pipe elbow was blowing up bigger like a balloon on a high pressure steam pipe and worry was it would blow out and cause injury. it was suppose to be a high strength steel alloy pipe elbow.
.
confirming metal alloy before making parts is a reasonable expectation of somebody who is buying the machined parts. if you order a M2 HSS alloy steel part 65C rockwell obviously if it is just 1018 steel it will not heat treat. critical parts somebody in addition to metal vendor is responsible for confirming correct metal alloys and heat treatment usually
.
there is such a thing as counterfeit metals. that is metal that is not what it is suppose to be or labeled as. who labeled it incorrectly hard to tell and why. sometimes it is just a mistake from somebody in the warehouse
Oh my God just stop typing already.
 
Good Luck Brian, I have honestly used the threat of PM exposure a couple times to resolve issues in my favor. I start out by saying "I may be a little man who your business will easily live without, the problem for you is I know 25,000 potential customers of yours who some may be your current customers who will listen if I complain about your service." "We also know bad word travels 10 times as fast as good word, how can we resolve this using some compromise where we both are happy at the outcome?"

P.S. If your WV means West Virginia you are in a neighboring state and your supplier is very likely someone I have used. I am curious who but don't drop their name yet, maybe link them to this thread to let them know they could get some BAD free advertising over this.
 
my point is is say making aircraft parts out of high strength alloy. usually good practice to test material first is correct alloy before making aircraft parts going in a aircraft
.
most bigger companies test metal they buy. same as a casting user might ultrasound test a casting for defects before making parts out of it
.
i have seen portable xray tester used to test steel alloys after a regular steel pipe elbow was blowing up bigger like a balloon on a high pressure steam pipe and worry was it would blow out and cause injury. it was suppose to be a high strength steel alloy pipe elbow.
.
confirming metal alloy before making parts is a reasonable expectation of somebody who is buying the machined parts. if you order a M2 HSS alloy steel part 65C rockwell obviously if it is just 1018 steel it will not heat treat. critical parts somebody in addition to metal vendor is responsible for confirming correct metal alloys and heat treatment usually
.
there is such a thing as counterfeit metals. that is metal that is not what it is suppose to be or labeled as. who labeled it incorrectly hard to tell and why. sometimes it is just a mistake from somebody in the warehouse

This place needs an unlike, hate, or go the hell away button. I am guessing you would set the record for it's use.
 
my point is is say making aircraft parts out of high strength alloy. usually good practice to test material first is correct alloy before making aircraft parts going in a aircraft
.
most bigger companies test metal they buy. same as a casting user might ultrasound test a casting for defects before making parts out of it
.
i have seen portable xray tester used to test steel alloys after a regular steel pipe elbow was blowing up bigger like a balloon on a high pressure steam pipe and worry was it would blow out and cause injury. it was suppose to be a high strength steel alloy pipe elbow.
.
confirming metal alloy before making parts is a reasonable expectation of somebody who is buying the machined parts. if you order a M2 HSS alloy steel part 65C rockwell obviously if it is just 1018 steel it will not heat treat. critical parts somebody in addition to metal vendor is responsible for confirming correct metal alloys and heat treatment usually
.
there is such a thing as counterfeit metals. that is metal that is not what it is suppose to be or labeled as. who labeled it incorrectly hard to tell and why. sometimes it is just a mistake from somebody in the warehouse

Hey Numb-nuts, you are a strange guy, I am guessing you are in your 50's, yet haven't been exposed to much. Am I right? You act like nothing can be accomplished without a million dollar budget and a panel of experts. What is weird is you are all about working for the man and crawling on your knees in front of him, yet you surface in SHOP OWNER threads. WTF are you doing in the shop owner and management threads? Those are the people you kneel in front of, go away!
 
This place needs an unlike, hate, or go the hell away button. I am guessing you would set the record for it's use.

Such a button does exist. Its called ignore. Choose Settings on the top menu, then on that page look under My Settings and choose edit ignore list. Add whatever names you wish not to clutter your screen. The ignored posts will show the ignored poster's name, but none of the content unless someone later quotes the offending member.
 
Such a button does exist. Its called ignore. Choose Settings on the top menu, then on that page look under My Settings and choose edit ignore list. Add whatever names you wish not to clutter your screen. The ignored posts will show the ignored poster's name, but none of the content unless someone later quotes the offending member.

Problem is someone always quotes the offender so the point is moot.
 
It sure seems DMF_TomB has a great deal of experience considering some of the work he says he does. Even if his posts aren’t entirely relevant I wouldn’t be so quick to disregard what he has to say. That’s like telling your toolmaker he sucks despite his forgetting more than you ever knew.
 
Back to the OP's question...

IMHO, (I'm not a lawyer) I think that you are out of luck for recouping your time costs on this job unless the certs that came with the shipment stated that it was A588. You would also have to look and see if the supplier had a disclaimer (probably not, just covering the bases) stating that the end user needed to check his order upon delivery or some such.

In the long run it might be cheaper just to write it off (I hate paying lawyers) and secure a means to test future shipments before you go in to production.

Still sucks though,

-Ron
 
FYI theres a really easy way to collect on this - force some action, if the supplier is normally good for material, you need more material in the next few months, just order it from them, when they send the bill send them any outstanding payment minus the costs, at that point you force there hand to either let it slide or fight it. Simples this item to them is the classic let it sit and it will disappear - you will let it slide, well, time to call there bluff and if they have already agreed to that as a credit, just fucking take it! Business is like playing tennis, some times the only way to hit the ball is to find a way of making it come to your side of the net first.

DMF is normally internet short hand for "dumb mother ****" That has to be right because i found it on my excel list of abbreviation
:cheers:
 








 
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