VERY interesting PPP video. Watch your back.
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    Default VERY interesting PPP video. Watch your back.

    YouTube

    Give out the money and say it is free. Then change the rules.
    So if you got funded early, and paid your people to stay home? That amount may not be forgiven if your business was financially able to continue on without it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scruffy887 View Post
    YouTube

    Give out the money and say it is free. Then change the rules.
    So if you got funded early, and paid your people to stay home? That amount may not be forgiven if your business was financially able to continue on without it.
    Ask the native Americans about "we're from the government and we're to help"

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    Here's Question 31

    .
    31. Question: Do businesses owned by large companies with adequate sources of liquidity
    to support the business’s ongoing operations qualify for a PPP loan?

    Answer: In addition to reviewing applicable affiliation rules to determine eligibility, all
    borrowers must assess their economic need for a PPP loan under the standard established
    by the CARES Act and the PPP regulations at the time of the loan application. Although
    the CARES Act suspends the ordinary requirement that borrowers must be unable to
    obtain credit elsewhere (as defined in section 3(h) of the Small Business Act), borrowers
    still must certify in good faith that their PPP loan request is necessary. Specifically,
    before submitting a PPP application, all borrowers should review carefully the required
    certification that “[c]urrent economic uncertainty makes this loan request necessary to
    support the ongoing operations of the Applicant.” Borrowers must make this certification
    in good faith, taking into account their current business activity and their ability to access
    other sources of liquidity sufficient to support their ongoing operations in a manner that is
    not significantly detrimental to the business. For example, it is unlikely that a public
    company with substantial market value and access to capital markets will be able to make
    the required certification in good faith, and such a company should be prepared to
    demonstrate to SBA, upon request, the basis for its certification.
    Lenders may rely on a borrower’s certification regarding the necessity of the loan
    request. Any borrower that applied for a PPP loan prior to the issuance of this guidance
    and repays the loan in full by May 7, 2020 will be deemed by SBA to have made the
    required certification in good faith.

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    Just like any form of welfare there will be people who truly need it to survive, and people who just think of it as an extra stream of money to continue living how they are accustomed too whether needed or not. The rolling out of a program like this under such timelines was going to be a shit show under any/all circumstances. Like He pointed out in his video it is really a few bad apples who ruin it for everyone. (large public companies who blatantly did not need the money to continue business) While I sympathize with how it has been pulled back to a stricter set of rules after the fact. I do feel like I am in agreement with a stricter set of rules on this money.

    Is it fair to think that business's would be responsible in determining whether they truly needed the assistance or not, but also ignorant to expect anyone to not jump at the thought of an unexpected check right now given how much uncertainty people are feeling.

    To put it in an analogy that compares it to the normal welfare conversation:

    Why should Johnny have to spend the money he saved up for some new rims on food, when he can just get food stamps from the government.

    Why should Timmy have to spend the money he set aside to upgrade the truck fleet next year to keep his employees retained, when the government will do it for him through the ppp.


    These programs are best used when it is only to keep a person from going homeless, or keep a business from closing permanently. I think more people should have thought that it wasn't to keep you from feeling any burden at all through this time.

    Just my thoughts on some of that. Don't take any of it to serious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scruffy887 View Post
    YouTube

    Give out the money and say it is free. Then change the rules.
    So if you got funded early, and paid your people to stay home? That amount may not be forgiven if your business was financially able to continue on without it.
    I am not at all surprised about this. Nor was I surprised that employers receiving government loans (at least some) then got mad at the employees they had just earlier furloughed and laid off. The reason was because they received unemployment and assistance checks. They call them bums. I do not have to make this up.

    Once the government realizes any of this money is disappearing God save anyone who took it who might conflict with the bill. Too they can still likely rescent it all and set up payments on money because a lot of money has been given out.

    Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes. You guys be careful follow their rules.

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    it will be interesting to see how aggressively they pursue this. I believe they should pursue the companies that did not need it and require they repay the loans. If they we taking this as a hand out to buy new equipment or some other non essential capital building upgrade during this time, then they should have expected it. I am sure they knew if they needed it or were playing the grey areas to get a free windfall.

    also if I recall, and someone please correct me if I am wrong. I believe the original verbiage was that it could be forgiven, not that it would be forgiven.

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    Some of these rules are in effect based upon when you applied. When I applied the reason for the loan/grant was to get your employees off the State UI roll because the states will run out of money very quickly. I only had 3 men to start but 2 left and signed up as soon as the State of Emergency was called. One stayed and then ended up in quarantine at home for the last 3 weeks. So yeah, my business has been effected. I did ask my banker in the very beginning if a bank loan was possible, or even a line of credit. Forget about it was the answer. And I have good credit.

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    Scruffy,

    If you are not deep in debt and have good credit, and the banker told you forget about it for a loan to keep going, when this is over i would be finding a better bank to deal with.

    I have been lucky with my bank, but i have dealt with them for 28 years myself and family for over 43 years, and i know almost everybody that works there by name, but if they told me forget about it in these times for a small loan to help me cover expenses if i needed it i would be finding another bank. Banks are there to help there customers grow and to help them through tough patches, and needless to say this is a tough patch. Yes they make money for these services, but if they are not doing what i expect i find a better source, just as i would if a company i sent my black oxide finishing to did'nt do the quality i expected from them. Later Jason

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    I heard from various of my vendors and fellow business owners that they were taking the free money from the government. Because it was free money. Or because they didn't know what next month would hold.

    I wasn't comfortable with it. Accountant and bankers and local politicians were all saying take the free money. But I always believe, especially with the government, that there is no such thing as a free lunch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by demoj21 View Post
    Scruffy,

    If you are not deep in debt and have good credit, and the banker told you forget about it for a loan to keep going, when this is over i would be finding a better bank to deal with.

    I have been lucky with my bank, but i have dealt with them for 28 years myself and family for over 43 years, and i know almost everybody that works there by name, but if they told me forget about it in these times for a small loan to help me cover expenses if i needed it i would be finding another bank. Banks are there to help there customers grow and to help them through tough patches, and needless to say this is a tough patch. Yes they make money for these services, but if they are not doing what i expect i find a better source, just as i would if a company i sent my black oxide finishing to did'nt do the quality i expected from them. Later Jason
    His reason was not related to my credit rating. But yes, need to change to a local bank in the near future.

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    We are a 2-1/2 person shop - me, the co-owner, and his college age son (sometimes). We are as busy now as we have ever been, got some gov't contracts so we are "Essential" and can stay open. As long as we're working and making money we're not applying for any loans we don't need, especially from the .gov. Talked to my banker, he said he would help me get a loan but after I thought about it and told him I wasn't interested he confided that he wouldn't have done anything to discourage me but he thought I made a good decision.

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    Worst case scenario—you borrowed $100K thru the PPP, and even though you used it scrupulously, with documentation, to make payroll, they decide not to forgive it. If by some miracle you earned enough revenue during the shutdown not to have actually needed the money to survive, then you've ended up with an absurdly cheap loan and are that much better capitalized for the upswing.

    No matter how much I might rail against government handouts, the realistic approach is to take advantage. If you don't your competitors will.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldwrench View Post
    Worst case scenario—you borrowed $100K thru the PPP, and even though you used it scrupulously, with documentation, to make payroll, they decide not to forgive it. If by some miracle you earned enough revenue during the shutdown not to have actually needed the money to survive, then you've ended up with an absurdly cheap loan and are that much better capitalized for the upswing.

    No matter how much I might rail against government handouts, the realistic approach is to take advantage. If you don't your competitors will.
    SBA had a new ruling that any companies getting funded less than two million had a Safe Harbor. The reason is that there for sure is economic uncertainty, and companies that size would have little luck getting bank money.

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    Initially places like Ruth's Chris, shake shack, Harvard, etc. Were getting 10 million from this. Now, do they really need it?

    Places that got it had really good pencil pushers to deal with the paperwork and realistically really had no use for the money.

    Where someone like my wife who owns an operates a nail salon got hosed. She is by appointment and never more than 3 people in there, but keep walmart and the dollar stores open.

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


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