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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustyRedneck View Post
    I'm a car and tractor collector.

    <snip>

    I am the only person this applies to in this shop but then I'm the only machinist. If I decided to leave and go work for a company 20 miles closer to me which the owner of has already offered me a job, they'd be out in the cold. None of them know how to run my machine or write programs. I'd like to be able to at least live reasonably and not have to worry about it.
    I'm going to pick on you only slight for just one second... I don't understand the whole "collector" mentality. Well, I used to think it was cool, until one day at the ripe old age of 13 when I realized that "collectible" die-cast toys were a total waste of my allowance... A "collectible" is only worth something if it appreciates, and when you sell it... Besides, how many cars & tractors can you drive at the same time?

    Ok, this probably isn't too big of a deal, and it may not be fair to pick on your "collecting" in this thread, but certainly you see where we're coming from, as for many, their spending on such hobbies can quickly spiral out of control & beyond reason. Could be said for guns, or golf, or hunting, or boats, or whatever...



    Now that that's out of the way...



    You're the "only one this applies to" - How do you think his bonus idea would fly if he pitched it to a shop full of machinists? Like a lead-balloon, that's how.

    If you got a job offer from a place that's 20 miles closer, go talk to them about it some more. Do an honest assesment of the two jobs - pros, cons, etc. Realize that the grass may not be greener, but if the money is there, then that should be a big plus...

    Also, I've used these two as a litmus test for any job interview, or general appraisal of a business that I walk into.

    1- How nice are the cars in the parking lot? Tells you something about the pay & quality of the people there.
    2- How nice are the bathrooms? Tells you something about the general awareness of the business, regarding how they treat their space & the people who occupy it...

    So if you talk to the other job, compare the cars in the parking lot, and the bathrooms to the place you're at now. Just something to be aware of.

    My gut tells me though, that it's time to find a better job.

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  3. #42
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    Thanks for the input folks. I asked my boss again yesterday to clarify how it work and he and the salesman are trying to get it figured out. I'm machining Press Brake Rams and Beds. From what I gathered, the bonus be set by the size of the brake. An eight footer would be worth more than a 6 footer which would be worth more than a 5 footer and so on. Then asked, what if I run out of parts to machine or you pull me off of the mill to help with assembly because you need to ship 4 machines in two days that have 3 days worth of work left. He said we might have to work something out for that. Said that if I get caught up, the bonus might increase. I see that as a distinct possibility because the guy that runs the plasma is working on a deal to leave here. He is also our main welder so if he leaves and we fall behind on cut parts and welded parts, I might see a few weeks with no machine time. I'll do some checking with the other shop and see what it is that they would have to offer. I know there safety is better and the shop conditions are better. I was given a tour a few weeks ago and I was thoroughly impressed. We'll see what happens. As far as growing my own food, I stay away from fruits and vegetable when possible. Just don't like them. Thanks guys! You've given me a lot to think about!

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  5. #43
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    [if I get caught up, the bonus might increase.]

    If you put all your paid time on the job/ stay out of the sh..ter/ come to work / try to do your best then you are doing good. Work like a crazy man does not aid production. So that seems a ploy to say you should work harder. You should be working hard already.

    Think I would ask for a reasonable wage increase. ..Not a piece rate for numbers you should be doing now.

    But yes if you are slacking or wasting time you should be put out the door...for this job and perhaps the next.

  6. #44
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    i work on parts from 100 lbs to 11 tons. i do not get paid more machining a 11 ton part and making 1/2 ton of chips in a day
    .
    if anything sometimes the smaller 100 lb parts are more time consuming and harder to reach tolerances. for example boring a 9" hole to +/-.0001 tolerances. or compensating for rotary table center of index error to <.0002"
    .
    i can easily spend over a hour making a teaspoon of chips

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  8. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustyRedneck View Post
    Hey all, I've been working at this small manufacturing shop for almost 2 years and over that time, I've gone from money in the bank to timing my bills and stretching about everything to the breaking point. I asked for a raise a while ago and the boss said I was well worth it and had already been figured into my next paycheck. Then he comes to me today and says, "We talked it over and instead of going up to the number you'd mentioned, we'd give you a bonus of some sort of bonus each month for total area machined." That kind of left me wondering, what about if the machine breaks down and I can't get anything machined for a while, or like a few months ago when they sent some parts to be machined and I was left with my hands in my pockets. He mentioned they'd heard of other companies doing this and I was wondering if any of you have had this before and how it normally works out. Let me know what you think.
    Sorta sounds like the "production bonus" I was promised when I came here.Every time the shop hit "production" for the month, I was supposed to get a bonus, since I'm the "shop manager". But! "Production" is a number based on "projected sales" here. You take "projected sales" multiply that by a fraction, and supposedly come up with a dollar amount that the shop should put out to hit "production". I always saw "production" as a percentage of time actually keeping the machine making chips, ergo good parts.
    Problem is, projected sales are something I have no input into, what so ever. So, they can " project" that they are gonna sell whatever dollar amount they want, and based on whether we supply the production to cover that or not, I make a bonus. Been here 13 years, hit production hmmmm, ten months? Seems to me, as I suspected when I came in, they can set production just high enough that I won't quite make it, thus I am supposed to be constantly chasing the carrot, riding peoples asses, getting production out of worn out machines, same old sturm und drang.
    I told em when the interview was going on, and the promise was made, that I'd believe it when I saw it, pay me what the job is worth and be done with it. That was how it worked out anyway.
    There are soooo many ways to screw you on this "surface area cut" that I believe I would counter with "just pay your bonus on a percentage of profits on my parts." See how THAT flies, IF you are getting parts out on a timely basis, and if you are confident otherwise in the situation. Otherwise, either live with what you got, or look elsewhere.
    Record keeping on that surface area scheme is gonna be a nightmare, as well as it will have to include too many variables with depth of cut, materials, cutter diameter, surface speed, everything in the book. Looks like either an excuse to NOT pay you that bonus, or a carrot for you to chase. Chase it or look elsewhere.

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  10. #46
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    i run big cnc mill and after it was fixed by maintenance i am checking grid shift and slowly its repeating then sudden it starts making a choo choo sound and servos oscillating 40 times more than normal. floor and machine shaking as machine that must weigh 50 tons is oscillating like scary shaking the floor bad. like estop as fast as i can. and go run a different machine.
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    most time operator has zero control on machine malfunctions. maintenance says they found rubber pieces in servo valve most likely from hydraulic hose. all of which is not anything operator has any control of

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    I consider myself to be relatively "pro-company". I understand the company needs to make money for me to make money. I also understand that the guy who owns the business I work for makes more money than I do....and he should...he took the risk, he laid it on the line. That being said....what i hear your boss saying is that he wants you to accept the risk of slow months...machine break downs....unforseen delays...etc. My response would be...."uhm, no".....and I question the motives of anyone who decides they need to come up with a "new" way of deciding how much to pay. I would be looking for a new gig asap....and the first one that looked appealing to me, I would be gone regardless of what the boss said. His interest' are not your interest'.

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  13. #48
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    Just about all that needs to be said [plus some additional that perhaps didn't need to be said!] has already been covered above. But just to add in my $.02:

    Whatever you decide to do, don't burn your bridges. Personally, I wouldn't dicker with the current owner; I'd either wait a few months to see what the bonus really amounts to, or I would sit down with the other shop and see if they want to make a specific offer. If, after weighing the pros and the cons, you decide to go with the other shop, don't tell the current shop why/how they messed up; just say that I have enjoyed working here, but I have received another offer that is closer to home and is too good to pass up. If the current shop asks what your new pay is, I would politely decline to answer - thanks for asking, but I don't feel comfortable sharing that; I don't want to put you or the other shop into a position of bidding against each other. Or some such like that - polite, appreciative of what you have learned and gained, but clear that you are moving on.

    It's always possible that your current shop will be the one to burn bridges - but even then, stay calm and polite. You never know whether a time will come when it makes sense to accept an offer to return to this shop ... or whether someone who is there now will be the one hiring for a position you really want to get ...

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  15. #49
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    wages are always based on shop wanting to keep too many people from leaving.
    many shops want people to leave voluntarily rather than lay people off and pay unemployment.
    .
    my experience i have gotten the most pay raises when too many in the shop were leaving for other jobs. obviously business boss has to decide to pay more to keep people.
    .
    i once worked for company close to bankruptcy and i got $5/hr more than normal cause too many were not waiting to get laid off job and when they found a job they left. key people were paid more AND told they would receive a weeks pay for every year employed up to one years pay if they waited to get laid off job and not left early.
    .
    sounded good at the time to stay. but less than 2 years later i made more money cause i worked over time and last year made $17,000 more in one year than old job even though it paid more per hour cause old job had no overtime work.
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    i always worried about finding another job. it took me 3 weeks to get a job offer. at the time those were the 3 longest weeks in my life

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    I've made an appointment to meet with the owner of the other shop just to see what would be different. If it pencils out to me making more money here, I'll stick around longer until a better offer comes up. The pasture looks greener over there but I want to see if it's soil quality or fertilizer mix. Thanks for the input!

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    money, security, safety pay, benefits all count high. and add the top rate of older guys average.

    but yes it seems the old shop may be a loser.

    Set your long term sights on the $30 to $45 per hour job..

    what about Koyker Manufacturing

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    20 mile less commute is a fair bit of extra collection polishing time every day and less fuel costs. When it comes to jobs you need to compare net profit, not just hourly pay even as a employee.

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  20. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by adama View Post
    20 mile less commute is a fair bit of extra collection polishing time every day and less fuel costs. When it comes to jobs you need to compare net profit, not just hourly pay even as a employee.
    Your response brought to mind what an old-timer I used to work with said to me one night on break.

    He said" YOU are your business. You need to run your work life the same way a good business is ran. Sometimes that means going to school, buying a tool, putting in some effort to keep yourself relavent. Possibly looking for a new "customer"".

    I think that applies pretty well.

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    I've been doing some math as I think about this and figuring out cost of commuting to both the place I'm at and the shop I might end up at.

    As far as working at Koyker, I'd have to be making a lot of money to drive back and forth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RustyRedneck View Post
    I've been doing some math as I think about this and figuring out cost of commuting to both the place I'm at and the shop I might end up at.

    As far as working at Koyker, I'd have to be making a lot of money to drive back and forth.
    Some times it might be good to just pack up bag and baggage to move across a state if the stakes are high.

    I have no Idea what they pay or their benefits.

  23. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustyRedneck View Post
    I've been doing some math as I think about this and figuring out cost of commuting to both the place I'm at and the shop I might end up at.

    As far as working at Koyker, I'd have to be making a lot of money to drive back and forth.
    An easy way to think about it. If the current place (or a hypothetical new place) is 20 minutes farther from your home, then you add 40 minutes a day, or 3 hours & 20 minutes to your "work week" that is unpaid. Consider that at the closer job, you could simply spend that "commuting time" on the clock, and collect 3 hours & 20 minutes of overtime pay each week, if available & allowed. Do that even 25 times a year (every other week) and that could be a considerable boost to your paycheck...

    There's the "cost" of driving further to/from work every day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jashley73 View Post
    An easy way to think about it. If the current place (or a hypothetical new place) is 20 minutes farther from your home, then you add 40 minutes a day, or 3 hours & 20 minutes to your "work week" that is unpaid. Consider that at the closer job, you could simply spend that "commuting time" on the clock, and collect 3 hours & 20 minutes of overtime pay each week, if available & allowed. Do that even 25 times a year (every other week) and that could be a considerable boost to your paycheck...

    There's the "cost" of driving further to/from work every day.
    .
    or just move closer to work. like selling a house is inconvenient but its not like it is a chain to your leg to a 10 ton rock

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    Take an angle grinder up to the roof and give it a once over. Probably 10,000 square feet up there to do.

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    I found out when talking to the boss of the other shop that there may be an opening coming up in a month or 2 that he thinks I'd fit into pretty well. When discussing benefits, he mentioned 2 weeks paid vacation after a year (which I currently don't have), and the company pays health insurance and it doesn't have anything to do with my pay. So there's a couple hundred dollars a month I wouldn't be spending. As well as paid vacation. As far as moving, I am in a contract for deed situation and I doubt I can get out of it easily and I don't want to move or I would've already, out to Wyoming or the Black Hills. I like my family, I'd like to be close to them. And as far as driving further to work than I do now and working that much longer, I'd rather spend that much more time away from Home. I have too much to do at my place. I'm in the process of finishing projects left by the old owner and trying to keep ahead of my stuff falling apart. And then there's the cost of driving back and forth. Thanks for the input guys!

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    Sounds like things are looking up. Is the prospective employer willing to put his promises in writing?


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