Well this sucks- snapped at a client. - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    tension builds up and has to go somewhere, if you hadn't snapped at the client, then you would have released it on something else - can be exercise equipment in a gym, family, inanimate objects or your own body (built up stress causes lots of health issues), snapping on client might have not been the worst outcome for you and him - granted they'll learn from this as well, and I most certainly wouldn't accept the responsibility for it like you do

    anyway, managers are there for a reason, if they just pass along the issues they had to solve to someone down the line (you) - they are the ones responsible for the mess

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    Again- this is a small thing but boy .... it wore me down.
    Two similar situations. One horse. One Texan.

    - This Texan is a drunk. His buds turn his horse around, tie tail to hitching post. "Meanwhile, back at the ranch.." he rides in about five hours late.

    "What happened to YOU?"

    "Some evil bastard cut off my horse's head!"

    "Blind and no brains, I had to steer the poor dumb animal all the way back to the ranch with two fingers down his windpipe!"

    Sound familiar? Got two fingers?

    Next go, he's wiser.

    Horse is TOO!

    Notices the rider is blind drunk, and panics at what sort of pain in the ass and long miles backwards may come NEXT.. bucking and thrashing, manages to get his off hind hoof into the STIRRUP!

    Texan looks at that hoof in the stirrup, says:

    "The HELL with that! If you are getting ON, I am getting OFF!"

    "No way you can carry double all the way home with YOUR damned weight!"

    Sound familiar? Just leave the hoof where it has been put and get TF off.


  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by cnctoolcat View Post
    Customers are like women: can’t live with them, can’t live without them.
    https://youtu.be/CJiDzin8zqE



    Sent from my Nokia 7.1 using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by cnctoolcat View Post
    Customers are like women: can’t live with them, can’t live without them.
    She: "If men didn't have a d**k, there'd be a bounty on their heads!"

    He: "If women didn't have a p***y, there'd be a bounty on their heads!"

    Successful Merchant of my acquaintance:

    "If customers didn't have MONEY, there'd be a bounty on their heads!"


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  6. #25
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    I snapped just last week. Not at a customer. But, it was a business related professional situation. And, I completely "lost my shit".
    Had to call back and apologize. Even though I am 100% right, and he 100% wrong. He still doesn't see it that way. And, I am sure the damage is done.
    Oh-well, lesson learned on both ends hopefully. All you can do is carry on.

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    anger is how humans express fear

    figure out what you are afraid of and the anger will disapear

    communication is the key

    can still hear my youngest daughter saying "would you just shutup and give me

    the whipping like everyone elses dad does"

    never did have to

  8. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Winn View Post
    anger is how humans express fear

    figure out what you are afraid of and the anger will disapear

    communication is the key
    Excellent advice, but easier said than done. Most live a whole life without knowing.

    Call setting boundaries and communicating them a critical skill. You probably let the customer cross a couple without saying anything, in order to be a nice guy and a good subcontractor/vendor. I used to do this a lot, until I was WAY past the point of no return and then dump it all out. A better approach I think is to express where that boundary is and discuss whether to allow crossing that to happen or not, and the consequences of both. I'm only 5 years older than you, but I'm still learning this. For me the fear was that the customer (or whoever) would reject my communication, then I would be disappointed and have to get pissed to get a result, and I didn't want to get pissed because of the consequences, etc. So I unconsciously saved up until pissed was the only option. Now I communicate better. and am more aware of boundaries, and how to set them.
    Mad at yourself is the worst kind of mad because it's hardest to forgive yourself. But practice doing it until you get it. Someone really smart taught me that.

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  10. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Winn View Post
    anger is how humans express fear

    figure out what you are afraid of and the anger will disapear

    communication is the key

    can still hear my youngest daughter saying "would you just shutup and give me

    the whipping like everyone elses dad does"

    never did have to
    LOL! Ex-wife used to BITCH!!! .. that her kids would do as I told them, first time, every time, yet ignore her directives for DAYS! And WHY SO?

    "Because they know I never TELL THEM TWICE! .. while you won't CEASE telling them for days!"

    Dad was the same with Mum to change HER ways:

    "Don't tell them 'you are really going to get it when your Dad gets home!' Do what needs doing on the spot ... or forget about it!"

    Downside was Mum was a typist.

    MANUAL Underwood upright, not wimpy power-steering "electric". And world-class FAST. For two shifts straight as a Teletype operator during the war.

    For a mere 5' 2" and slender, she had arm and shoulder musclature like an entire team of Polish pro bowlers! Whom had ever noticed, given her Navy/Merchant-Marine Dad vaguely resembled "Popeye" anyway?

    Turned out she spanked a lot harder than DAD did!

    Oh well. We kids had to learn that someday..


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  12. #29
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    I recently stopped giving contracts to a contractor of mine because I complained about the workmanship on some pieces he did for me and he said if I didn't like it I could go elsewhere... so I am going elsewhere.

    If you don't respect your clients, they will stop doing business with you. That's a fact.

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    TR, a follow-up call/visit may be the way to go if you want to 'heal' the relationship somewhat. Something along the lines of: "I needed to convey that info, but didn't need to do it in the way that I did. My apologies. Here's my position, and how the issue affects my work/schedule/bid/whatever. Here's how I think we could fix things. Your thoughts? And here's a bottle of Johnnie Walker Blue to help smooth over my rough edges..." (Feel free to substitute Corona for JWB.)

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    This is why you dot your I's and cross your T's. When your work is per the contract and they want a change.....change order. When they have a $1000 part with $20K in change orders they tend to get the point.

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    I remember a time when I was going through a 'put myself first' phase. A customer referred by another customer came by and asked me to quote a job. We went round the car going over what wanted doing, then he uttered those fateful words "while youve got the gun out" and pointed to a rusty scab on the bonnet.

    After a moments silence I said "you realise youre taking the fucking piss!" and explained it all takes time and my time will be be chargeable. He apologized and had the work done.

    If you offer value It doesnt matter much, say what needs saying and rest will sort itself out.

    In my humble opinion of course, merry christmas.


  18. #33
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    Well as it develops I guess everyone is handling me with kit gloves.
    The client no longer comes in the shop and talks to the general about job progress.
    The general lets me know how happy the client is with how everything is going.

    I still feel like a idiot who couldn't handle a little bit of job pressure.
    I'll make a point of taking the client aside and smoothing the waters- I don't want the guy to feel like he screwed up.

    "It's not you, it's me"... LOL

    I guess many here can relate- I feel like I am out of time and suddenly very defensive about how I spend it.
    In the end though this is just work- I need to bring to the table that ability to get it done through the normal storm of job site difficulties.
    There are not any excuses.

    Thanks all- I didn't like how this went one bit.
    Letting work get the better of me is not my style- I don't want to make a habit of it.

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  20. #34
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    Some engineers get emotionally attached to their designs. I had a young engineer start crying when I did a design review with him on how to make parts easier, cheaper, and faster. He was upset that I "undermined his authority as an engineer" and went to talk to the big boss.

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  22. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plane Parts View Post
    Some engineers get emotionally attached to their designs. I had a young engineer start crying when I did a design review with him on how to make parts easier, cheaper, and faster. He was upset that I "undermined his authority as an engineer" and went to talk to the big boss.
    Someone that engineer respects needs to explain to him that undermining his authority is when you get his design changed and tell him later.
    Going to him directly is offering valuable education at no charge to him.
    Going to his boss to provide (respectful) feedback is just saying his boss has better people skills to offer said education than you do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jccaclimber View Post
    Someone that engineer respects needs to explain to him that undermining his authority is when you get his design changed and tell him later.
    Going to him directly is offering valuable education at no charge to him.
    Going to his boss to provide (respectful) feedback is just saying his boss has better people skills to offer said education than you do.
    At one point I was working with an engineer that was hired because he was friends with the owner. Bluntly, he was an incompetent idiot. I once had a 5 minute screaming match with him about how much time I was spending designing custom fixturing. "You just need to make a pocket for the part to fit into and screw on some little clamps, like every other part we've done" His way took 40-50 minutes, and was about 15 thou thinner at the corners because it was lifting. My way made 4 parts in 20 minutes, and held a couple of thou on the entire surface. I told him he was an idiot, his method was fine for one part, but really stupid to keep using for 500, and that I could yell louder and longer than he could. He didn't like that last part.

    The next big assembly that came down from him was a 7 piece box that held several cards, and I could easily tell the holes were off on the side covers. I went and told him that the sides would be offset by half inch because the dimensions didn't line up. Of course he told me to make it like the print. So I shifted the holes on my setup parts, got the first batch of parts done and dialed in, then put the holes back and sent him half a dozen boxes with the sides sticking out on one side and short on the other. Never heard another word about that assembly, strangely enough. Kept the correctly fitted one on my desk for quite a while...

    Sometimes, yelling is necessary, because it's the only way to get peoples attention. Sometimes you have to tell people they are being stupid, because the just don't know otherwise.

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  25. #37
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    I believe we are in agreement. Multiple ways to provide feedback.

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    Welll....on the upside....you were right. The plans should be finalized.
    Possible your deliver of the news was less than "cultured"....it happens.

    I suspect it has happened to him before. Hopefully he mans up, accepts the truth in what you said and carries on.
    Its always nice to keep engineer types a bit reluctant to come to the shop lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterfalke View Post
    Sometimes, yelling is necessary, because it's the only way to get peoples attention. Sometimes you have to tell people they are being stupid, because the just don't know otherwise.
    Tony Robbins the self help guru teaches that you have to talk to people in the manner that they understand. Humans tend to judge others by their own values and wants and needs, other humans have different values and wants and needs. As mechanical people we are similar to each other, but not alike, and others can be very different. What offends one of use might be just polite conversation to someone else. Some people don't even hear you until you get loud and combative, some won't respect you until you get loud and combative. Some folks are mortified and offended by loud and assertive. Some aren't comfortable until you get loud and assertive. Honest.

    Just think what life would be like if every customer and aquaintance had the personality of a trade show salesman?

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    once you have lost your cool you just threw every advantage you had in the

    situation out the window

    the sweetest victories are when the engineer takes your idea and claims it

    for his

    every time you have to deal with him from than on he is aware that you know

    this

    i have been told to leave more than one engineers office for proveing him wrong


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