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  1. #21
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    Stearns Bank always treated me very well.

  2. #22
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    Here in Onterrible, I've been trying to hack an operating LOC and a pre approval for a commercial mortgage.
    Local credit union where my business acct is wont even look at me. Scotiabank has dragged its heels for over 2 weeks now.

    As soon as you say "manufacturing" youre fucked here.

    Been looking for a meager 185K mortgage to purchase 10000sq ft of industrial space... Ive got 100K cash for down payment, and nearly 100k in assets to back it. Leasees' lined up that cover the mortgage AND property tax...
    Did $30K in the first quarter on top of my day gig.
    2 fucking weeks, and no deal.
    And IF they were to give it to me, the cork soakers want 8% for the mortgage... cripes almighty

    Now, if I were making high end cupcakes, or poodle sweaters... no problem...

    That hot dog cart is looking appealing.


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  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiTillIdie View Post
    My buddy just suggested suntrust. Guess i will steer clear of them. I noticed there was no one that uses Chase or Wells Fargo?
    A quick story. . . . .
    First year in business, Sept '86 needed credit at reasonable rate,
    Generous brother bought a $10K Certificate of Deposit @ Wells Fargo, allowed us to use it as collateral on a $10K line of credit,
    Things were fine for years, until one time,
    I was late and past due on the monthly payment, which was interest only required,
    Total balance on the account was $5.00.
    I knew I would be subject to the standard late fee of $30, so shame on me.
    I needed access to some funds and wrote a check on the account in an amount over $5K,
    Wells Fargo didn't honor the check and my other banker (at a different bank) called me and said you have nonsufficient checks coming in at an alarming rate, what's up?
    I asked her if she received my latest deposit, yes she did but it was dishonored.
    I called Wells Fargo, they said "you're past due, we can dishonor" I told them it was on a secured account,
    They didn't care. I told them the balance was only $5.00, they didn't care. I asked who would have made such a stupid decision, they said the computer does it automatically. I asked what could be done, they said make a payment at one of their branches. I showed up at the WF branch across the street from my regular business checking bank and handed the teller $50 cash. She said all was good now. I asked her if the next time I accessed the account, funds would be released? She assured me it would be.
    $5.00 balance, past due I know, on a secured account, unbelievable.

    I walked across the street to my primary banker and told her to redeposit the check and it would clear, and she would continue to pay all my checks I had written in the mean time. That's customer service !! I told her to give me an application to open a line of credit at her bank. That bank was Mercantile Bank. By then, We had established sufficient credit in the company name and were able to open an unsecured line for $40K. I promptly closed my account at Wells Fargo. Then my bank got bought by SierraWest Bank, then they got bought by Bank of the West. I have maintained the account for the last 32 years. Fast forward to mid 2017. I started to get notified a day or after my deposits, that they were placing a hold on most of the deposit dollar amounts. WTF? I go to a face to face with the new branch manager where I make my night deposits, he says it is company policy. I explained that I had never been subjected to any deposits being held and wanted to know what changed. It's company policy to hold deposits over $5K. I told him that I would call downtown (where my banker gal works) and have the hold removed. He says go for it. Back at my shop, I call downtown and she removes the hold. Next deposit, same thing. Another face to face with the same new branch manager, asking what is triggering the "new" policy. He assures me it is policy. I asks him to look at my account and see when this started and how long I have been a customer and how much money I have deposited in his bank and how many NSF checks I have received from any of my customers, and showed him a print out of my deposits for the previous three years showing him that almost all my deposits are over $5K and never got held. Nothing would sway the dude. I finally explained that if this is the new norm, I would split my deposits to fly under the $5K threshold, and that means your cost per dollar deposited goes up. I also said, I could just as easily make my larger deposits downtown where I know they would not be held. There went the customer service!!!

    Finishing the Wells Fargo rant, I opened my retirement account back in the early '90s at Prudential Securities. All was good til Wells Fargo bought Prudential in the mid '00s. And when the housing boom busted, Wells Fargo bought my mortgage company. I just couldn't get away from those effers. I finally transferred my retirement account out and paid off my mortgage early.

    Wells Fargo BAD
    Bank of the West BAD

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  6. #24
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    How about chase? I was there for 2 hours today talking to a "business expert." Anyone have great or bad things to say about them?

  7. #25
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    I just closed my accounts at Chase last week. I was with them since I was 6 (first savings account, Bank One at the time).
    Built a new house about 6 years ago. They wouldn’t talk to me about a construction loan. Fine, went to a local bank that was happy to loan me the money.
    Just bought a building. Had Chase and the other bank look at the loan for me.
    Chase came back, eventually, with a 6.75% rate (vs 5.25 from local bank) the day before they denied the loan. The reason they denied me was a negotiated payment on a credit card that was finalized in 2001.
    I have had a relationship with them forever, was a “private client”, blah blah blah.
    Opened up accounts at the local bank and, so far, every time my wife or I had went in, they greet us by name.
    I feel that if they can check all the correct boxes Chase is great. If you don’t fit in their box....too bad.

  8. #26
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    In my experiences over the last 22 years, the banks are horrible for our industry............period! They are a place to store your money until checks go out and clear, and that's about it.

    The best thing we did a few years ago was get a Capital One credit card that offers JetBlue airline miles. We chose airline miles because my wife and I like to travel, and using the card we rack up a considerable amount of miles.

    The last time we went to Punta Cana in the Domincan Republic, it cost us a mere $222.00 total for the BOTH of us for round trip airfare from Boston. Can't beat that deal with a stick!

    With nearly 75% of our suppliers and vendors accepting payment via credit card we rack up nearly 20K a month in payables that get converted to airline miles, which in turn allows us to fly for nearly free.

    It's a great perk!

    For capital equipment, we have always used one of the recommended lenders from the machinery dealers. T

    There has never been an issue...........I even still have my first born.........which the bank wanted..............


    Later,
    Russ

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  10. #27
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    The only time to look for a bank is when you can prove you don't need one. When you need a bank bankers are like sharks smelling blood. This fee, that fee, covanents, restrictions, and outlandish interest rates.

    Interview bankers like you would a new hire. Find one who knows small businesses.

    Keep in mind today's bankers have very little personal authority today. Piddling small amounts have to go to "committee", and your banker has to be able to explain your business and your needs to the committee.

  11. #28
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    I use my local credit union.............been with them for years.....never a problem or a hassle. They offer biz loans and lines of credit.............I'm my own line of credit though..........last machine I bought I actually financed a chunk of it...............rates were super low and I wanted to keep a pile of green in my account for rainy days. Called my guy, he put a pile into my account and said come in and take care of the papers when you can..............There's credit unions and there's credit unions........................find the right one.

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  13. #29
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    One experience back in '74 demonstrated the inadvisability of financing a machine tool through a bank. They don't know anything about machines, therefore they are not comfortable accepting the machine itself as collateral. Not to mention you have to jump thru hoops.

    A business owner I knew gave me the name of a machine leasing company, who right up front said it didn't bother them if the machine was in my basement. That told me they understood about startup machine shops having to fly below the radar until they got going. So ever since, I've always lease-purchased with never a problem.

    Banks are good for mortgages on real property. Once you don't owe them a dime they are very cordial. But if you owe them, say, fifty thousand, they own you. However, if you owe them fifty million, you own them.

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  15. #30
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    I see you've been reading from the Book of Finance from D Trump!
    I don't know about recent endevours, but that, and Libya sure sums up the 80's news stories ....


    ---------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

  16. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by macds View Post
    Here in Onterrible, I've been trying to hack an operating LOC and a pre approval for a commercial mortgage.
    Local credit union where my business acct is wont even look at me. Scotiabank has dragged its heels for over 2 weeks now.

    As soon as you say "manufacturing" youre fucked here.

    Been looking for a meager 185K mortgage to purchase 10000sq ft of industrial space... Ive got 100K cash for down payment, and nearly 100k in assets to back it. Leasees' lined up that cover the mortgage AND property tax...
    Did $30K in the first quarter on top of my day gig.
    2 fucking weeks, and no deal.
    And IF they were to give it to me, the cork soakers want 8% for the mortgage... cripes almighty

    Now, if I were making high end cupcakes, or poodle sweaters... no problem...

    That hot dog cart is looking appealing.

    Canadian banking is the worst. People who don't know the finance sector sometimes hold it high regard, "well they never get in trouble" No shit, because its the ultimate state granted franchise, an oligopoly of 5 who do not face competition so do not have to take any risk. Its why they make $12B a year profit. That 12B per bank comes from bending us over, because the can. There is not even a set criteria to become a Schedule A bank here, like do and meet A B and C and you're in, its a at the federal government's favour and the door is closed.

    Bank financing for business? Basically there are two types. SBGB (small business general business) and commercial. SBGB will loan you money basic on collateral usually. Commercial is real business banking but you probably need a line of at least 1/2 a million, that won't get the interest of many. It is usually a margin account, they view your A/R and Inventory as the primary asset and the amount of the line varies with it. You report monthly and typically get a cap thats a percentage of A/R and inventory. Commercial banking, needing monthly monitoring, is usually out a commercial banking centre not a local bank branch; its whole different service than general banking. The teller at the local branch is reading financial statements and monitoring margin accounts

    If your business is growing to the point where there's a million + in A/R, you better find a commercial banker. If you need a hundred thousand or, its often the hole in the donut and is tough to find, at least here. The commercial bank's costs don't vary a lot so they make money on big loans, not so much small....so they stay with medium and up. This puts you frustratingly back to an SBGB type of service, they don't know business (well they do pizza shops and such) and its really no more than a personal loan.

    Banks are always secured in first place.....there are lots of other lenders as you move away from that, from leasing to assets based to mezz, but as you move away from first place rates go up and up and up

  17. #32
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    I have a similar experience to many here with Wells Fargo, I originally banked with First Interstate in So Cal, Wells bought them. I never had a "line of credit" so to speak but I had a 25K limit on my card. They did so many things wrong, I started using USAA web banking for my personal stuff and have a local credit union in Kansas I deal with.

    The local credit union IMHO is the best way to go for a small company. Get to know the officers and they can do a lot of things. With small banks or credit unions personal interaction is the way to get the ball rolling.

    Steve

  18. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    I see you've been reading from the Book of Finance from D Trump
    Never needed any other books after reading Winning Through Intimidation by Robert Ringer. Still available and still right on the money 45 years later...

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  20. #34
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    That's an odd last name for a Sicilian.

    ???


    -----------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

  21. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by macds View Post
    Here in Onterrible, I've been trying to hack an operating LOC and a pre approval for a commercial mortgage.
    On the commercial mortgage front, I've never found anything appealing. When I was looking at a commercial property years ago, the best I could do was a private mortgage through an independent mortgage broker that I've dealt with in the past. The interest rate was unappealing, and the building marginal, so I passed on it, and just rented a better commercial unit in a well kept building. The interest would have been more than the net rent on the building. At rental rates around here, I'm pretty sure the only way to make money on commercial property is to buy with cash. The yield just isn't there to pay a lender.

    On the operating line, I was able to get one from RBC. They gave me more than I asked for, but quite a bit less than my net worth. The agent said they are trying to expand their small business loans business. I haven't expanded it, but they said to expand the line, it would be based on A/R and inventory, similar to what Mcgyver describes above, but certainly at the small business level.

    Having said that, I'm aware of some manufacturing businesses that had lines with RBC in 2008, and RBC pulled the lines abruptly when shit was hitting the fan overall, and just about killed a few of them off. So I don't get so deep with them that I don't have a plan B at the ready.

  22. #36
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    I use TD and love it.

  23. #37
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    Chase for the business. No problems. Normal and to be expected rules for line of credit or loans.
    A local credit union for personal.
    Bob

  24. #38
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    Shoebox. And I've still got my prune.

  25. #39
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    US Bank. They like machine shops.

  26. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by motojoel1 View Post
    Opened up accounts at the local bank and, so far, every time my wife or I had went in, they greet us by name.
    Dad... doing a home renovation.. asked his local bank President, whilst standing out in the open, for loan of a large sum.

    Prez says.."Uuhh.. that amount, I have to check with a board member, but wait here, they are having a meeting in my office right now. I'll go and check."

    Few minutes, he's back, calls a lone officer over to do up the papers.

    Dad, knowing all the board members since childhood, pops into the Prez's office to say hello.

    It was just as empty as it had been all day!

    Banksters. Not necessarily honest, even when being helpful!

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